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Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Hi, I rebuilt my gearbox and upon completion I noticed I have a small amount of horizontal play of the entire clutch. The clutch hub nut is tightened, the clutch spring is fully tightened and the only thing I did is add a new cork bushing on the hub and remove 1set of clutch plates to reduce clutch drag. Is this very small play normal or did I forget something? Thanks for the help

email (option): Jeff@infinitymedspa.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Did you check for correct end float on the main shaft when you rebuilt the box?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean correct end float? thanks

email (option): jeff.robbins75@gmail.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Hey Jeff,

End float is the amount of play back and forth on the same plane as the shaft. The end float is set by shims. In your case, is the entire shaft moving back and forth, or is it just the clutch moving on the shaft?

Kevin

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

I'm no expert on these as I've only stripped two and watched another one being rebuild. They are difficult because you are supposed to assemble each shaft in turn with the cover and gasket in place and measure the end floats (backwards and forward movement of the shaft in its bushes), with feeler gauges through the square inspection hole, and correct the end float with shims or new bushes. I don't remember the actual measurements but it's only a few thou! Your main-shaft could be moving with the clutch if excessive end float is present.

But first have a closer look at your clutch assembly. Ron

PS typing at the same time as Kevin.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Not 100% positive, but I do not think i have very much end float in the gearbox. Everything felt and moved solid when i rebuilt it. It feels like the clutch is moving on the shaft. Almost as if the clutch spring is not seated well?, or something else. even though I have checked it. I am open to ideas. Thanks

email (option): jeff.robbins75@gmail.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

From what I remember,it's easy to have the clutch hang up on the woodruff key. It could be that your clutch hung up on that key when you installed it, and it's worked itself loose. You could try opening it up and reseating it. Though, I'd remove it and dress up the shaft. I had to sand down my key on a piece of sandpaper on glass to remove burrs. If your clutch was loose on there, it might have given it a good hammerin'. Would be worth it to have a look, and dress up any burrs and dings with a honing stone.

I'm going to be pulling my clutch soon too because it's pissing oil from behind the mainshaft hole. I think I may have buggered up something on the sliding plate when I installed it.

I just got my carburetor back together after removing the jet block for cleaning. I'm surpised the damn thing ran at all. The jet block was totally filled with crud.

Looking forward to going on an M20 ride with you, Jeff. You should make it out to Hansen Dam. It's the first Sunday in November.

Kevin

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Hi Jeff,

Is it only the clutch chainwheel which is moving and the centre of the clutch is solid? in that case the movement is probably caused by some play in the chainwheel rollerbearing set up. The spring pressure has no influence on this movement.

There has to be some axial play on the chainwheel to allow it to turn free from the centre but when it gets excessive you have to take some action. There is a good description on this subject from Ian Wright called "clutch problems" in the technical section.

About the endplay of the gearboxmainshaft: I think this shaft should have no endplay at all as it is locked up to the small ballbearing when the two nuts on the end of the shaft are (hand)fastened.

Good luck, Michiel / NL

email (option): m.wijbenga [ at ] hotmail.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Hi,

I've been to Hansen Damn before and its great. Do you ride your M20 on the ride that day? I was always afraid to ride it on that ride because of the speed and distance. Your thoughts?

email (option): jeff.robbins75@gmail.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Hey Jeff,

I will ride up the hill at Little Tijunga Canyon Road, then I'll come back. Probably not going to do the whole route.

Let me know if you need any tools for your clutch issue. I have the pullers and the clutch compressor.

Kevin

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Jeff Robbins
Hi, I rebuilt my gearbox and upon completion I noticed I have a small amount of horizontal play of the entire clutch. The clutch hub nut is tightened, the clutch spring is fully tightened and the only thing I did is add a new cork bushing on the hub and remove 1set of clutch plates to reduce clutch drag. Is this very small play normal or did I forget something? Thanks for the help


The mainshaft supporting the clutch passes thru sleeve bushings within the mainshaft 4th gear, which is in turn supported by the transmission case output bearing.

Assuming all else is correct, the play detected of the clutch is likely the mainshaft clearances at the sleeve bushings amplified at the outer diameter of the clutch assembly.

As mentioned earlier, the chain wheel will rock on its roller bearings as it rides on the clutch center. But the clutch assembly and mainshaft can be flexed within the clearance of 4th gear sleeve bushing, which if worn can begin to feel excessive....low transmission oil level will really affect the life of the sleeve gear bushings.



 photo 4thgearbushingwearingonmainshaft.jpg

email (option): teladelujo@ msn.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

John Edwards

 photo 4thgearbushingwearingonmainshaft.jpg


Wow! did someone use grease as a lube in that box? Doesn't look good. What's teh story there?

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Over the decades, my WM must have suffered several episodes of operation with low gearbox oil due to the inevitable loss of lube past the minimally-sealed transmission output bearing.

Grease in the Box

When the g/box oil level drops, the area most likely to be damaged is the point most difficult for lubrication to reach, which seems to be the 4th gear sleeve bushing.

A low oil level in the box allows the 4th gear sleeve bushings to run dry and the transmission mainshaft begins to wear against the bushings

The resulting brass fines from the bushing wear then further plug the mainshaft oil channels that should allow oil to pass oil through, which futher restricts lubrication, and the catastrophic "cycle" continues.

As my box was worn and the oil leakage was excessive, I decided to try a grease/50w mix in the box in an attempt to staunch the oil loss during a 1500 mile riding event. The use of grease in the gearbox has been a topic of discussion on the forum, so decided to give it a try....

Upon later disassembly of the box, it became clear that the grease/oil mix did not effectively reach the depths of the BSA's 4th gear sleeve bushing once the bushing wear process had begun.

For all other areas of the box, the grease mix seemed to lubricate just fine, but for a grease mix to work its way along the considerable length of the sleeve bushings in sufficient quantity to provide proper lubrication is "a bridge too far"....That is at least what I have found.

I easily resolved the transmission leakage problem by installing a sealed bearing.

email (option): teladelujo@ msn.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Jeff,
Apologies for further hijacking your thread but John I'm curious to know did you note any lack of lubrication in the oil way of the lay shaft to lubricate the first and second gears?

email (option): spacemonkeym@gmail.com

Re: Horizontal movement in the clutch ??

Matty Leahy
Jeff,
Apologies for further hijacking your thread but John I'm curious to know did you note any lack of lubrication in the oil way of the lay shaft to lubricate the first and second gears?


During inspection of this particular box, I found no damage or excessive wear on any of the transmission parts other than on the 4th gear sleeve bushings.

There was enough fluidity of the mix to reach all areas of the box. The lube mix seemed to work well enough to protect the bearing surfaces on the other components when present in quantity and able to be thoroughly whipped about by the action of the spinning gears.

Please note: This lubrication experiment was performed during a hot summer and with sustained high engine /gearbox operating temps. I don't think that the grease/oil mix would work nearly as well in cold winter weather.

My bottom line: Stick with the factory oil recommendation and keep the oil level topped up.

email (option): teladelujo@ msn.com

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