Hi Everyone,

After some searching, I have found a company who hold the licence for and are willing to manufacture a batch of the original RAL6014 lead chromate green paint as was applied to our pride and joys in their youth.

The only issue is that the batch size is 250 litres, which is 50 tins of 5 litres each.

Now they are not willing to stock and have it called off, but I thought I would test the water to see how many of you would be interested in putting your name on the list for one or two tins.

The cost would be in the region of £150 per tin, but as it is not made any more, I can't see another route to obtaining it.

If you would be interested, PLEASE email me so that I can get a list going and gauge if its a possibility or not.

I am not asking for an order from you yet, just in principle, would you be interested and lets see how we go.
Regards

Darren

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

Hello Darren,

Thanks for searching for this paint, but some questions, what colour is the RAL number you supplied? (in WW2 terms what colour??) how matt/gloss is it gonna be?

Looking forward to your answer,

Lex Schmidt

email (option): welbike(at)welbike.net

A decent lead-based matt KG No.3 would be wonderful but the British and Commonwealth colours were based on the BS standards.

RAL refers to the 'Reichs-Ausschuß für Lieferbedingungen und Gütesicherung' so is more relevant to the opposition.

Do you have a RAL number ?

email (option): welbike(at)welbike.net

I'm interested, do you have a price, you seem to have succeeded where I failed! I'd like a 5 litre tin if its coming off, do you have a timescale before I start putting paint on my Matchless?

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

A quick 'Google' says it's 'Bundeswehr Gelboliv' so a post-war West German colour. It would need work to make an accurate WW2 KG No.3 or British Olive Drab.

Hi All
My Feb 42 M20 has lots of original paint and it is much more like RAL 6025 Fern Green (http://ralcolor.com/) The brake backplates look original and the same colour as the tank paint which was under the C number when I sanded back the tank. I tried mixing the Revel colours as published for KG 3 but my paint is slightly more green (may have been my mixing!). Question: what quantity of paint do you need to paint an M20?
Regards
Doug W

email (option): watsond@xnet.co.nz

Hi guys.

The ral 6014 is more of the brown olive drab matt and is almost perfect for a late war bike.

It would take a proper uptake of orders for me to place an order for it as I am not in a rush to order £7500 of paint just to sell off five tins at cost.

But in the abscence of some proper commitment I would not be likely to follow it up.

Shame but we will see if there is enough interest to think about it further.

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

Failed to mix the correct thinner amount. Comes up shiny. But the sample without thinner is matt.

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com

I don't really understand how when someone offers to take up the task in an unpaid role to organise to sort out this paint that everyone is so non committal about it, I've just pulled my flying flea that I've just restored off the bench, sat on it, and the paint promptly scuffed off the footpegs revealing the lovely colour of the etch prime below it. Darren has contacted me previously about this paint and has chased it up, so I guess it deserves some commitment, especially when everyone has complained that their paint isnt durable. I'd like to buy some but it looks like I may be unable to unless everyone decides what colour they actually want, I'd just like a paint that will stay on! it costs around £120 to get a matt two pack that still isn't durable, so for £30 more I see it as a reasonable price. You can tint it to whatever colour you want, let's just be able to get some in the first place!

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Went straight to get a pint mixed and cost 'bout eight $ US. Looks better to me than the US drab OD. But then, what do I know.

Henri, you can still get lead paint in the US? I thought it was banned since the seventies. If it is true lead chromate paint where can I get some?

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Sorry Dave. I note that this sample was created without lead. Will take photo of the tag showing the mix quantities in the am. BTW, I sprayed it with matt lacquer and it came out great.

Personally I am still not over the rise from £30 to £55 for 5 litres of paint, so at £150 I wouldn't even consider it even if it could be proven that it is a good durable match for KG No3.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

The posting here seems to have turned in to what colour is best for my bike, when the real issue is the type of paint, for anyone that has never used a leaded paint you don't know what you are missing, it can be brushed or sprayed, is quick drying and the most important thing is that it is a LOT TOUGHER than any of the acrylic, two pack, poster paints or whatever you use, it actually bonds to the primer, and in some applications there is no need to even prime what you are painting as the paint itself is like applying a red lead coating (its just that it is green coloured instead) another feature of it is that it weathers well, if it gets scratched it is like marking the paint with a soft pencil and you just wipe it over with an oily rag to remove the mark, I you try that with any modern paint it will scratch off leaving the primer showing through. It also gets a nice patination with age, which can be left on, or if you wipe it with an oily rag it can be removed. There seems to be some irony in some of the comments above as to the originality of paint colours and how close to original colours the paint is when your bike is being painted in a NON ORIGINAL finish! It is very hard to get made and technically it requires a licence from English Heritage to get it made and the supplier has to get a licence from the government to keep the lead oxide on site, this licence costs around £500 so the manufacturer needs to see a return on his investment on the licence hence the fact it is slightly more expensive. I spray a lot of military bikes and I get frustrated by the poor quality and lack of durability that modern paints have. Leaded paint was always the best paint for a matt colour, the paints that you get today aren't, they have just had to adapt and evolve as best they could to overcome the government legislation when they banned lead paint in 1978.
I tried to get this sorted a while back and after spending many hours emailing and phoning paint manufacturers I gave up as it appeared that no one I tried held the licence or was willing to obtain one, even if I promised to sell lots of it. I like to use my bikes quite hard when they are restored but with the present types of paint I find I spend more time touching up than riding them, how many of you have strapped your bikes onto a trailer and had paint damage from the straps without having to wrap the handlebars in cotton wool? ....nuff said!

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

i'd be in if it goes forward...fed up with modern rubbish !

email (option): chris.astinbarker@btinternet.com

I'll be good for a tin of the paint, if it can be shipped to the US.

Jeff

email (option): jjbandoo@aol.com

What type of paint do you add to it to tint it?

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Dave, I think that you're being a little harsh here as we don't actually know what the composition of the paint was in 1939 or 1945. Khaki Green No.3 was referred to as 'Gas Proof' which related to the ease with which it could be decontaminated. The inference is that this was something above and beyond a standard matt finish (or otherwise they wouldn't have needed to specify it).

We shall not in any case be permitted to use the chromium oxide compound that provided the green element.

The fact is that once one begins to notice it, there is a huge difference between KG No.3, British Olive Drab, Bundeswehr yellow olive and IRR NATO Green (incidentally, based on my experience of flatting a Land Rover, that NATO Green is pretty tough stuff...but completely the wrong colour).

I spent a fortune on isocyanate-free 2-pack and it's shiny non fuel-resistant crap. In some ways I've learned my lesson but it also means that I will never again buy a paint that I can't see a sample of and speak with someone who's used it. This probably rules me out of this exercise.

Regrettably also, Darren's comment that the company was "...willing to manufacture a batch of the original RAL6014 lead chromate green paint as was applied to our pride and joys in their youth" did not fill me with confidence as, for reasons stated in the earlier post, a RAL colour is exactly what it isn't.

If the original post had said that a matt khaki base colour could be provided with instructions and materials available to tint to either early or late-war British Green then I think that it might have been more positively received. This is not to decry the work that Darren has done but the market for this sort of finish is inevitably the rivet-counters.

Five litres is rather more than is needed for a solo motorcycle. In order to get this off the ground, I'd suspect that it will be necessary to involve owners of larger WD vehicles but before doing this, I'd suspect that it is necessary to ensure that there will be a colour match to a wartime British shade.

For Goodness sake,
Shall I come round and paint it for you too

An old saying that was reminded to me lately was 'Fault Finders, Should Be Fault Menders'

I have got my 'sample' sorted, enough to do my bike, So I just wanted to share the possibility of helping a few people out, without profit, for the good of the bike.

And Rik, Yes you can use the original Lead Chromate ( Chromium Oxide ) that was used originally as the paint is for use on historic vehicles and English heritage have a downloadable ( free ) licence to cover the situation.

If you are not interested, fine, but stop picking and moaning about a situation where I am just trying to help.

As I said in the original post, if you may be interested EMAIL me , don't post it here as that way I can contact you directly and see what the proper interest is.

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

Just as an aside, does anyone know the colour of the bike in the forum photo?

email (option): jjbandoo@aol.com

Thank you for that Keith.

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

Darren I got my paint from the supplier today, and it is tough, I just dipped my finger in the paint and smeared a little bit on a piece of raw angle iron with no primer on it, left it for an hour or so and then tried to scratch it off .........No chance, it's on there for good!!!! Tremendous, thanks for the heads up!

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com