Hi , i received last week a Bsa M20 i bought .

According to the serial and the parts it s an original KM20 .

Thanks to Robb Miller , he helped me find some information about the bike . It left the factory on the 7/7/39 and was delivered to the War Office.

I would like to find more about the bike if it s possible , like its unit , where it has been dispatched or used , which battle maybe ...

The bike doesn t seem to have been really used, the original paint is still inside the muddguards and the bike seem to still got her original tires .

Unfortunately the previous owners did some "work" on it so some parts are missing : the original tank , footrests , milometer or speedometer , the Inside and the glass of the headlamp , the bolt and the clamping bolt aren t there or aren t original too .

What fuel tank model should I seek ? I don t know if it s the same that the civilian or later Wm20

I also would like to buy new bolt because a lot are missing , is there a site for it ?

If you have parts , informations or anything that could help don t hesitate !

The serial number are :

Frame : 3542 Engine : 2542

There is a number 16 painted on the front muddgard , what is its meaning ?

I will try to take some pics step by step of the restauration , and maybe put them on the forum . It could be useful .

Thanks for your help .

Marcus

email (option): autoetmoto@hotmail.com

Marcus, is the machine recently sold in France ? If so, well done and I'm so glad to hear that it's going to be saved from a fake civilian restoration.

If it is the same machine then you have a real time capsule to enjoy. It is a shame that the original fuel tank has been lost. Do you know if it still exists as it will confirm the War Department 'census' number and quite possible the unit.

The number on the mudguard indicates what type of unit it served with but this is dependant upon the background colour. Is it black or dark green ? Is the number definitely '16' with no other figures in front or in-between ?

I'd say there is a 99% chance that your machine was left behind by the British Expeditionary Force in May / June 1940 and probably hidden away by a local. If you can advise exactly where it was found, that may give a clue. The British had large vehicle depots at Laval and Le Mans so quite a lot were left in that area.

Hi Rik , well guessed , indeed it s the same machine :) .

I did some pics, i will put them later . ImageShack isn t working ...

The number on the mudguard has a dark green background .

I will ask a complete history of the bike right after i received the papers.

THX

email (option): autoetmoto@hotmail.com

Marcus, I've never seen an original BEF green 'Arm of Service' serial background so I'm really keen to see some good pictures of this. Gentle cleaning may bring the original colour up.

Based on 1940 data, '16' on green indicates the Headquarters of the 'second' brigade in an infantry division. Unfortunately, there were ten or eleven divisions with the BEF at one stage and without any identifying 'Formation' sign, it will be difficult (or sadly impossible) to work out which one was applicable.

I'd suggest looking very carefully at the tail of the rear mudguard and also at the rear number plate. You may need to gently start 'flatting' with fine 'wet and dry' paper to see if any old markings become visible.

The British Army's WW2 system of markings was only just coming into use in 1939/40 and had not really been fully standardised and correctly implemented so there are lots of variations.

Rob Miller may have more information but my calculation of your WD serial 'census' number is C3914601.

The closest 1940 photograph that I can find to this is of C3915648 after it had fallen into German hands but it doesn't seem to have been modified.



You need the larger early fuel tank but it doesn't seem to be the 'panel' type.

Your speedo will be the 'Jaeger' drive system with the thick drive cable and looks to be the earlier type driven from the brake plate.

Here is a pic of the front muddguard .



I cleaned the muddguards but has you can sea it s still dirty

I don t think that there is a panel cause the head lamp still got the original amperemeter .

The original speedo is still on the brake but the speedometer Smith on the handelbar is missing

email (option): autoetmoto@hotmail.com

Hi Marcus, that front mudguard is in very nice condition!

Without knowing the condition the rest of the bike I would advice you to be very, very careful with the finish as it is easily damaged in the rush of restoration.

It is amazing how only a bit of oil rubbed onto a rusty surface can shine out the paint again.

Would like to see pictures of the complete bike

Good luck , Michiel / NL

The 'Arm of Service' marking is undoubtedly that of an Infantry Brigade HQ. Very nice to see.

The hand-painted figure '1' has a very similar style to that on my Norton (which was Divisional HQ, Royal Engineers).



On mine, you can see the 2nd Infantry Division 'Crossed Keys' on the mudguard tail.

I too look forward to seeing more pictures.

Marcus, would you mind if I used your photograph to illustrate my BEF Motorcycle Markings thread on the 'World War 2 Talk' forum ?

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/34843-bef-motorcycles-formation-signs-arm-of-service-markings-and-census-numbers/

No problem , if it can help .

I used so much thread , this time it s my contribution .

Are you Rik Diephuis ?

Here is a pic before anything has been done ( all the parts aren t on the pic)

email (option): autoetmoto@hotmail.com

Thanks Marcus. I'm really just trying to collect as much BEF motorcycle markings information as possible in order to build up a reference of possiblities. So much information has been lost about the 1940 campaign.

My real name is that used on WW2t. I don't know Rik Diephuis.

Can I see traces of white markings along the side of the front mudguard ? If so and they're readable then I can probably identify the unit for you. This would be the 'Movement code' for shipment which was a temporary number that was painted over afterwards. They're not often visible in photographs from May 1940 but when they are, definite identification is possible.