The debates go on and on.......

Best reference source for period dress is to spend time looking at the hundreds of original period photos.........having done so for over 25 years there really is no standard attire........

When WW2 broke out, the only motorcycle gear available was the short rubberised coat and leggings (the type with the "spat" lower portion) and the matching "flying helmet".........add to this goggles and gauntlets.........

Many units didn't even have access to the above, so rode in their issue kit supplemented by civvy and locally-sourced items..........

Specific DR breeches and boots were not introduced until late-1941 and were not generally available until 1942 in any quantity.........the fibre "pulp" helmet also appeared around this period..........

The big "DR" coat did not appear until 1942 and it was 1943 before large stocks became available........same with the steel DR crash hat, the first issues using the same fibre-banded para helmet shell...........

Availability of DR kit was perhaps better in motorcycle-equipped units, such as Signals, RASC and Provost.........but the odd motorcyclist within an infantry unit may well have been further down the food chain in terms of kit availability and issue............

SMLE rifles did eventually go out with British motorcyclists around 1941-42, being replaced with initially Webley's or Smith & Wessons, Thompsons or Stens supplementing or replacing these by 1943 after front-line experience indicated the occasional need for better firepower in certain situations.......

White "Sea Boot" socks worn with DR boots...? Yes, they were sometimes sourced and issued, but the "correct" attire was khaki wool "hose tops" (footless socks) worn over the join of the breeches and service-issue grey wool socks, the excess end being turned-over the top of the DR boots.......

email (option): sjmwdbikemad@aol.co.uk

Thanks for that Steve, I'd agree 100% with what you say - again based on scrutiny of photos from the time. So many motorcyclists in so many different units all had to use whatever kit they could get hold of, and as you say in many cases it was just their standard issue kit. If the kit is right for a unit and location then it is correct for a representation in my book.

Steve, you are very right about the hose tops! only about 1 out of 20 Original pictures show white socks.

But weren't green long socks also issued?

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike(at)welbike.net

Weren't motorcycle riders eventually issued with the Enfield .38 revolver with the spurless hammer instead of the Webley Mk IV with the hammer? It's often wrongly described as the Tank Corps Enfield, but was actually issued to pilots, tank crews and I think, motorcyclists, in fact anyone who sat down a lot and was in danger of blowing their foot off if the hammer snagged on their clothes when they stood up.

Quite possibly, but I guess it all came down to what was available.......I had a revolver a few years ago that appeared to have had the hammer crudely ground down so may be a local mod ?

Not seen green socks Lex..........army issue of the period were grey wool and calf-length, sea-boot socks a cream colour and later in the war also made in navy blue......the khaki wool hose tops are commonly seen being worn by troops in shorts, the lower join with the boot usually covered by either web anklets or short puttees.......thus they do appear to be long socks when worn......

It seems that the fibre "pulp" crash hat may have appeared as early as 1940, and I have a RAF (Air Ministry marked) example here in a size 7 & 1/8th dated 1941 in superb condition painted khaki-green.......original WD issue (there were two variants) are very difficult to source today in comparison to the steel pattern introduced during 1942........surprised that no one has yet started to copy 'em ! There are Belgian-made examples around dating from the early post-war era and whilst the overall shape is similar they differ in a number of details from the wartime British pattern.....

email (option): sjmwdbikemad@aol.co.uk

Steve,
The DR breeches are often described as having leather or suede reinforcements of the inner thigh, but several I have seen have a woven material, in a lighter colour that looks like chamois , but is not.
Has anybody seen a genuine hide material in this area? When was it used?
My "S.D. Pantaloons Motor-Cyclists" are made by F.W Harmer &Co Ltd and dated March, 1943."

Do you know if the WW2 motorcyclists breeches are the same as the WW1 ones?

Issue jobs didn't have leather reinforcement.....it was nearly always a light-colour thick cloth............

The fabric was either a heavy woolen ribbed Bedford cord, or, a heavy smooth-faced wool...........buttons were nearly all plastic or fibre but some 1941-42 examples had brass or gunmetal buttons on the fly and for the braces.......all had a box-pleated pocket for the field dressing on the upper-right front......

A few years ago now I had a few pairs of 1941-dated British-issue DR breeches that were made in a very fine whipcord fabric in a more green colour than usual.......not doubt simple a manufacturers variation.........

Other variants were those made for ATS and Commonwealth manufactured items.....plus a RAF pattern in blue-grey serge, cord or similar........

The DR breeches evolved from the SD breeches introduced for cavalry well before WW1 (and used by motorcyclists up to WW2).......they differ by having no field dressing pocket and the rear cut like the SD trousers with a pair of "high points" at the rear of the waistband to attach the braces onto........some early versions also feature a laced lower cuff rather than buttons.........Pre WW2 manufacture nearly always features metal buttons.....

These cavalry SD breeches were made virtually unaltered well into the 1960s for Household Cavalry, RHA, etc............

Labeling....well, the DR breeches were generally described as "pantaloons" and the cavalry version "breeches", but there was considerable overlap and use of both descriptions........

email (option): sjmwdbikemad@aol.co.uk

Do the ATS breeches fasten up the side instead of at the front?

What does the "SD" mean? And, the ones I 've got have the field dressing pocket sewed up at the top- as if it is for decoration only. Is it supposed to be open? Does not feel like there is a button inside anywhere.

Not sure about the fastening on ATS DR breeches.......will need to check.....

"SD" stands for "Service Dress" (eg: the jacket and trousers worn before battledress)............

The field dressing pocket on BD and other garments was often sewn "shut" by the factory.......the theory was that because BD was the standard wartime dress, but not every pair of trousers worn for combat, the pocket was originally sewn shut to prevent "sagging" if not employed for field dressing carriage........but if you needed to use it, then the top line of stitching could easily be unpicked.......

email (option): sjmwdbikemad@aol.co.uk