I bought these three saddles at the weekend.

1, Very large with a back rest, could this be the one from the Archer 17pdr self propelled gun, fitted with the remains of a Terry black rexine cover.

2, Large with a good usable Terry cover, but an unusual bicycle style mount.

3, A pilion saddle with a cover which appears to made from webbing bearing a Lycetts badge, can anyone tell me what this saddle is off. This one will be for sale.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

Perhaps not, here are some pages from the 1st edition 1946 Handbook for the S.P.17-PR. Valintine, unless they used a different gunners seat prior to 1946.

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

Thanks for finding the canvas pillion Rob. It's pretty much the same as the one on my 3HW
I'd say your 1st picture is definitely a gun layers seat!

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ron, not sure this amounts to conclusive proof.

And apparently this type of pilion seat was Norton or Enfield and its now sold.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

Rob I wouldn't expect it to be conclusive. But even a hint is encouraging.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ron.
I think that No 2 may be off a corgi, as I believe they had a bicycle type mount. (IKBA with honours)

TTJohn

email (option): Jomichael@aol.com

Good point John. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Here it is Ron

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Thanks Rob. I'd forgotten how this discussion had gone. But as you say. No conclusive proof about what the canvas covered saddles were used for. Cheers Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

And don't forget that most BSA's made between the wars had a bicycle type of saddle as did a lot of other marques.
So might not be military in any way shape or form unless from an impressed motorcycle.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

That saddle with the backrest was used on a lot of small agricultural machinery,which is its most likely source.

I did have an example photo somewhere, can't find it of course

The bicycle mount was common to many machines of the vintage era, I have one like it on my Sunbeam for instance.

The saddle that Rob had with the back rest, looks exactly the same as the gunners seat in his pictures, although the one in figure no 130 could have a rubber cover on it. Of course they might well have also been used for agricultural purposes.

My main query is what were the canvas cover saddles used for? Made by 'WRIGHTS' I think.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

The canvas rear cover shown above has a "Lycett" badge not a "Wrights" and its possible it was made long after WW2.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Don't think so Rob... Although they are sometimes seen on other motorcycles as well, Lycetts were mostly used on Nortons. And the MoS contract ledgers specify “fitment of Canvas Covering on Pillion Seat” for contract C10217. So I’m pretty sure that’s what it is: a 1942 Norton pillion seat…

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Hi Jan

Is this the period when canvas handlebar grips started to replace rubber?

And could it be that a pillion seat was considered a rarely used accessory so it could be of inferior quality than the essential riders saddle, maybe a short lived experiment during a period when there was a shortage of rexine perhaps?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi Rob,

The date of the contract amendment is January 1942. At that time, for as far as I can find out, there was no rubber shortage yet.
On the other hand, contract C/11082 was a contract for 10.000 motorcycles. Only 4.000 of these were equipped with the Lycetts pillion seat with canvas cover. I assume that the other 6.000 must have been using a bum pad style pillion seat, the one that was later phased out due to the rubber shortages...?
The question remains: why did the MoS specify canvas covering, while Rexine was the usual material for these covers? Was there a (temporary) Rexine shortage? I don't know...

Has anybody got period photographs of contract C/11082 Nortons where the pillion seat can clearly be seen?

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

I just might have....



The Japanese attacked Malaya at the end of 1941 and by mid-January had much of central Malaya in their hands. It may be that far-sighted officials in the MoS realised that even if Singapore was held, rubber would be a problem. With the sinking of 'Prince of Wales' and 'Repulse' in December 1941, Britain no longer controlled the trade routes.

The canvas pillion cover cost an extra 3d per machine so they wouldn't have agreed to it unless it was an improvement or necessary. I can imagine that lowering a battledress-clad posterior onto a soggy canvas saddle is not pleasant.

'Rexine' was linsead based but as Jan points out, the prior Norton pattern was the 'Dunlopillo' filled cushion which used a lot of rubber - Although a 'Lycett', Rob"s seat if original has already lost the aerolastics. Maybe the sudden need to make extra covers for the sprung seat was too much for those equipped to sew Rexine and other contractors were used.

It seems to have been a short-lived experiment.