Hi all
I may be ressurecting this querie from a number of years ago, but I still have not been able to fully identify this symbol on my M20.
I will be removing it soon to do a re-paint (be assured its not original) but it was stated that this was the symbol found under the paint before it was last painted.
Anyone have any firm ideas ?


ps. I will be marking the bike up to a unit within the Monmouthshire Regiment when I get around to it. That was in the 53rd Div which is similar badge to this one.
Rich

email (option): richardpurkiss@hotmail.com

Hi Rich

Howard Coles book Formation badges of WW2 has a paragraph on the 53rd Welch Division, it says that the vehicle marking differed from the cloth formation sign which was the case with several units, in this case he only mentions the colour of the background, Green on the vehicle, khaki on the cloth badge but there may be other differences, perhaps whoever applied the marking to your bike had some other info or a photo.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

I also think your tank has someone's interpretation of the 53rd div patch.
Terence Wise only quotes it as a red 'W' and line.
Hodges and Taylor show it on a white background Ron

PS we have a trophy awarded each year in our 'Indian Riders Club' It consists of a large 'W' followed by an image of an anchor

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I also suspect that what was found on the tank was not all there so this is someones interpretation from what was left.
The correct name or identification of the 'W' is that it is a BARDIC CROWN (a link celtic Welsh past), we call it the upturned picnic table !
If indeed it was a 53rd Div badge then that is fortuitous as that is what I want to badge it up as (Monmouthshire Regiment). I am in Monmouthshire, and as a member of the Reserve Army (cant call it TA any more!), I have spent the last 10 years as part of 160 (Wales) Brigade, which has the same badge. About a year and a half ago, I moved over to 1 Ary. Bde.

I guess if I paint my bike SCC No.2 (brown) I will have to go with a dark green background to distinguish it against the brown.

Rich

53rd Div


Current 160 Bde

email (option): richardpurkiss@hotmail.com

At some point in the war formation signs were officially removed from motorcycle petrol tanks and the arm of service number on a coloured background was used instead.

According to Hodges and Taylor British Military Markings 1939-45 the 2nd Monmouth's used 69 on a brown square.

I'm not sure of the procedure when the colour of the vehicle is the same as the marking.

I have a similar dilema, if I return my M20 to midwar brown SCC No.2, it was built late in 1942 and that would seem to be the correct colour, and I put it in the markings of the 2nd Devons which is one option I have been considering as I live in Devon and they landed on D Day near where we are camping in Normandy the markings on the tank would be 67 on a brown square, so in this case do you just paint 67 directly on the tank, use a different brown for the square or use black or some other colour to outline the square.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

The 'brown' AoS backround pre-dates SCC No.2 and would normally have been applied. That said, Formation signs sometimes appear to have been applied directly to vehicle colours. I've never seen any evidence of an outlining colour.

Earlier vehicles in KG No.3 certainly had a green background when used by the middle brigade but of course there was more of a shade difference there.

Unfortunately the application of Formation Signs to motorcycles seems to have been officially discontinued by Army Council Instruction as early as 1941 so any use of the insignia as a tribute is really with a good dose of artistic licence on a post-1941 motorcycle.

Spot-on Rik....the regulations of 1943 merely enforced the earlier ruling for motorcycles..............but exceptions existed, as always.........esprit de corps frequently overruled all....:o)

email (option): sjmwdbikemad@aol.co.uk