I'm not sure if this has been posted before but after watching that fantastic Spitfire clip, I went hunting on YouTube and stumbled across this.

http://youtu.be/EsNL78G6oNQ

Not sure I'd like to try the off road stuff on my M20!

email (option): lee@twowheelstested.co.uk

Thanks Lee, I hadn't seen that one. Those chaps didn't try it on an M20 either ! I'd certainly be up for it on someone else's bike...I'd want to take the 8" headlamp off of mine first though.

They don't call us Crazy Canucks for nothing.. Thanks for the link.
The Canadian Army used mainly Norton 16H and Harley Davidson WLC models in training, but once "in the field" anything went. I've seen period photos of Canadians on M20's but not in Canada.
Now compare the US on their Harley "45's" ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A2zhD__kqU

That's a great film, oh to be able to throw one around like that and not care or have to pay for repairs. My 16H was probably with the Canadian's and I have a picture of a bike that could even be mine with Canadian markings on. I did think of doing it with the same markings, but after getting very confused because the black and white picture didn't help at all with identifying the unit, I gave up.

Having seen how little ground clearance there is on a Harley WLA they'd have to get it airbourne to get over a bump, and I'm sure getting one in the air isn't easy.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

I'm sure the take offs are a lot easier than the landings by comparison....

This is the same place as in the video at 4:00

email (option): bsawm20@hotmail.com

Hello,


I found this film a few months ago and loved it, I was thinking of playing it in the exhibition space but thought it may be confusing.

Does anyone know if the British Army did something similar?

Thanks

Sarah

email (option): sarahkay@bletchleypark.org.uk

For sure Sarah. Lots of us have the British army training film. You should be able to get a copy on CD from Horror or Henk from this forum. There's about 3 hours of it and all narrated by Chumley Warner......Great
Or I can lend you mine if you have the means to copy it.
Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Here it is. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Sarah, as you're in the museums 'business', you probably have to do things officially so it might be worth pointing out that this was a Government film produced by The Army Kinematographic Service. A copy survives in the Imperial War Museum and they allowed it to be released on VHS by a company named Beaulah during the 1990s.

Unfortunately, it was only available for a limited time and was never released on DVD. Those of us lucky enough to own an original copy were seeing these tapes gradually deteriorate (mostly through lending them out) and in the absence of any hope of a re-issue, some unofficial DVD copies appeared on the market.

It may well be that you're able to obtain a print with the appropriate permissions via the IWM.

There were actually three films originally, a very basic training sequence, maintenance and advanced riding on the moors of Northern England.

I had one until someone in Dorset borrowed it.. .. ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Rik I seem to remember that Dave checked about any copyright issues.

Ian the tape Dave used for the copies came from a source here in Ferndown, but if you think I have used yours I'll ask Dave to send you a DVD. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

It's copyright of the crown

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Crown Copyright is void after 50 years!!

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

I deliberately avoided using the term 'copyright'. What the IWM and other archives (such as Mortons) do is licence the reproduction from copies that they own.

If one of us were to find and buy an original copy of the film, distributed at the time, we too could licence reproduction from it.

The fact is that the only known surviving 'period' copy of the film is in the custody of the IWM and it's likely that sooner or later, someone connected with there would hear about a film at Bletchley, with attendant unpleasantness. It's a little different from what we do for our own private use.

I consider that those who made DVD copies available did us all a great service but with the best will in the world, they aren't in a position to authorise public performance of it.

Just looking on Henks listings, cant see the DVD with the training.
I have the other one , the WM20 info one.

Paul C

Without knowing the law you may be right Rik. I don't see why you need a licence to reproduce something that is out of copy right..? Who would you pay for a licence..? When IWM reproduced it, it was probably still within the copy right time limit otherwise who did they have to pay?

With music, after 50 years, anyone can copy or use it without paying royalties. Cliff Richard, the Beetles and Rolling Stones won't get money for there older songs. They have been fighting to change the law to 70 years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-14882146

If they can't get any money for well known songs I think we're ok with a 70 year old WD film.
The first time I saw the training film was at a bike museum a few years ago. They had it playing on a TV from a video for everyone to see and obviously weren't worried about it.
I can't imagine that anyone who thinks they may have a claim to the ownership of the film pursuing this in court. If it was "Star Wars" or a million seller, then maybe, but I don't think there's anything to worry about

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

I have been talking to my mate who has made a few films and images for people, about copyright and he has confirmed it is 50 years. After that it's in the public domain and anyone can use it reproduce it or play it without paying royalties to anyone.
I have also been checking things out about crown copyright. The duration of Crown copyright varies depending whether material is published or unpublished. Unpublished material was originally subject to copyright protection in perpetuity. However, the 1988 Act removed this concept from British law. Transitional provisions that apply for 50 years after the entry into force of the 1988 Act provide that no unpublished material will lose its copyright protection until 1 January 2040. New Crown copyright material that is unpublished has copyright protection for 125 years from date of creation. Published Crown copyright material has protection for 50 years from date of publication. So anyone can use, reproduce or play these WD film as they are now in the public domain.
The IWM would have had to pay royalties to reproduce the film onto video if the video was made before 1992, which as it was on video format and not DVD, I assume it was. If it was after 1992, they wouldn't have had to pay anything and were converting the film into a more accessible format for people to buy. I'm sure after the initial interest they didn't sell many. We have done the same thing and converted it to DVD and although we have done the hard work there is nothing to stop people copying the DVD and using as they want.

The people that sell WW2 photos and claim to have copyright, don't at all and are more likley to be saying that to scare people from using the image so they alone can sell them.

I hope this clear this up now


I am going to send Sarah a copy of the film to show at Bletchley Park, which is exactly where it should be shown for people to appreciate it

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk