Hi folks

Does anyone have photographs of original BSA contract plates they could send me

In particular S5209

Many thanks

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

John, picture sent!

If anyone that has never sent me any pictures of contract plates has some, please send them to me, any make, any contract, not only bikes!

Have quite a collection now, but not complete!

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Thank you lex

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Hi John

If you're making S5209 contract plates and are thinking of selling one, please let me know.

Lee.

email (option): lee@twowheelstested.co.uk

Like you Lee, I'm looking too !!

Jo'b

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Hi folks

I received a photo of a contract plate from a forum member, surprisingly, from my bikes contract

On it were the following details

294/23/S5209. 36

I have looked at the OM book and understand the following

Contract S5209
Catalogue 36

But what does 294/23 mean

No reference in the book

I have another photo which has just contract & catalogue reference

Any clues ?

Best regards

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

John, '294' seems to have been a standard Ministry of Supply contract prefix. It came into use early in the war (pre-war, motorcycles were ordered by the 'Directorate of Army Contracts').

'294' is by far the most common prefix in the MoS vehicle ledgers - it didn't apply specifically to motorcycles - maybe to all vehicles and bicycles...but some contracts had a different prefix number - I can't see a real pattern.

If you have a parts book for your contract, it should show Contract 294/S/5209.

I don't know about the '23'. However, the task of the contract plate was to refer workshops to the correct lists when ordering parts so it may be that '23' appear somewhere. I have the impression that these contract plates were sometimes stamped in workshops to replace lost or damaged originals and the fitter may have noted the whole reference.

I'd expect S5209 to have an embossed steel plate - Are both the plate types the same ?

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

I'll send you the photos Rik, you might be able to make a better judgement

The S5209 plate should be steel by all accounts

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Hi fellas, I see lots of references to these things and understand in principle what they are, but as to really knowing anything about them it is totally outside my knowledge. If I were to start and try and find out what should be one on my bike, are there any online references (1st choice) or readily available printed publications(2nd choice) where I should start my search? My particular M20 was made on the last day of production going by what I have learned so far. I took a look at the repro 'spanish' plate in the other thread and thought it might be the way to go? Thoughts? Thanks for any pointers.

Duncan

email (option): cruiserchooser@hotmail.co.uk

John, of the two that you've sent me, I'd say that the brass one is clearly the earlier type and not correct for yours. I believe that Jan first made the link between the 'S' prefix contract numbers and the 'Steel' plates and it does seem to hold true.

The stamping font on the steel plate looks exactly right to me, although I don't have a collection of late contract plate images.

However, here....and hot from the Ministry of Supply ledger is a copy of the entry for 294/23/S.5209. Don't expect me to explain what the numbers mean, because I can't (yet !) but it certainly seems to be an official nomenclature



From a practical point of view, these later steel plates seem to present a problem as the blanks were stamped with detail embossed from the rear, rather than the earlier chemically etched brass and to my knowledge, no-one replicates them.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Duncan, do you have a copy of Orchard & Madden's "British Forces Motorcycles 1925 - 1945" ? It remains the 'bible' and a thorough reading and understanding is an essential starting point.

I know of no specific on-line resource or indeed other publication. It puzzles me slightly that across the whole range of British WD vehicles, there is apparently nobody going back to basic principles and researching from first-hand sources.

A couple of us here have done quite a lot of research in various archives and I'm currently ploughing through lots of Ministry of Supply 'stuff'. If you post your machine details, I'll happily see what I can find. It's all a hell of a muddle though in terms of dates and numbers so I can't promise any results.

My initial thoughts are that you're probably not correct with a brass plate but need a later steel type. However, slap some matt paint over it and only one rivet-counter in a hundred will spot the difference.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Rik,

The theory with the "S" prefix does not hold for Welbikes, all brass!

There may be a way to replicate these steel plates, but every contract would have to have it's own plate replicated, there can be no "one plate fits all" solution, as for the brass ones, so will be more expensive.

Thanks for the people who have sent me some pictures of their plates! keep them coming, in 5-10 years time, it will be much more difficult to see what plates are original, with all the repro's being made now, so it's very neccesery to document them now!!

Anyone who needs a picture of their contract plate, whatever make, if I have it, I'll email a picture to you.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

May I ask where contract plates are usually mounted ?
Or does it vary considerably ?

cheers

John

email (option): madoc500@hotmail.com

Originally, when number plates were still fitted they were on top of the bracket. Thereafter generally on the mudguard tailpiece above the rear lamp but on some Enfields, folded around a rear mudguard stay.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

With Matchlesses normally on the toolbox, soms early bikes never had them at all!

Cheers, Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Lex, As far as I can see with pre-war Nortons, they were 'always' fitted but my contract, the late 1939/early 1940 C5109 doesn't seem to have had them - no holes in the bracket or tailpiece and not visible in any of the period photos realting to the contract.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Thanks Rik/Lex

Much appreciated

Jo'b

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Another spot of detail for anyone with a brass plate - the relief areas in the top two boxes were black enamelled originally.



The number plate brackets were overall black, as per civilian practice.

Thanks for that Rik, I didn't realise the number plates were all black. That would have been a lot easier to paint than green with black number plate area.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk