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WM20 control lever questions

All,

We have one the big swap-meets of the year here this week-end (Ballarat - Australia) and yesterday I was lucky enough to spot quite a few items and came home with a much thinner wallet.

One of things I found after years of looking was this set of NOS levers. I have never seen a set in the flesh before because my WM20's saw a lot of post-war and post-miliary use and have had all of those original sorts of fittings flogged out years ago.

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I have a couple of mounting brackets for clutch / brake but I'm not sure what is correct. The one on the left is an unused, plated steel item and the one on the right a very worn brass item (note oval pivot hole) - it originally had very patchy bright chrome that I removed so probably not originally military.
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Fitted to the steel one the top of the lever and the top of the pivot bracket aren't quite aligned but are reasonably close.
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Things look a little tighter fitted to the brass one but the pivot hole is very worn so what it would be in its original dimensions is a little hard to determine.
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The bike I was looking to put these on is 1942 contact - C12424 that currently has the typical pressed-steel post-war chromed items.
Does anybody know if either of these type of mounting brackets is correct or should it really have the later combination style mounting brackets or are these really intended for a different marque of WD bike?
The other question is related to the thread of the pivot pin - I am used to seeing these as 1BA but these seem to be 1/4" cycle / BSF. I used a 1/4'BSF cheesehead to show the fitting.

Any advice would be appreciated.

email (option): rays54@hotmail.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Hi Ray.Good find.My M20 is from the same contract and had those levers on it when i got it. The fit of the lever is as you describe. Until i get any info to the contrary,ill assume there original . Regards Hamish NZ.

email (option): Fuzzyempire@hotmail.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Hamish - terrific, thanks for the response. Are your mounting brackets steel or brass?

What sort of advance / retard & choke levers were fitted to yours?

Yes, I was absolutely delighted to find these - my wife could not understand my excitement of "some old junk with half of the paint missing".

email (option): rays54@hotmail.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

 photo C5554811_zps87582005.jpg

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Re: WM20 control lever questions

The mounts on my ones are steel. Advance/ retard & choke levers on my M20 are brass Amal ball ended levers. My handlebar set up looks exactly like the one illustrated in the January 1944 BSA spare parts list for contract C10655 & C14052. Hopefully some kind forum member will be able to put a copy of that handlebar setup here for all to see. Hope this helps. regards Hamish.

email (option): Fuzzyempire@hotmail.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

A lucky find there Hamish. It's difficult to tell without a measurement, but they look somewhat like the shorter type as fitted to most WD Royal Enfield's.
Here is the brake lever on my WDC and I have put a comparison lever with it. Your M20 lever blades should be around 6". These Enfield levers are around 5". So far, I've never noticed these shorter levers fitted to any other make??

Ron.


 photo WDC021_zpsca7d5f94.jpg

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Just went out & measured my levers and there only 5inchs long. Perhaps they are Enfield ones? Its hard to tell but in the photo Henk posted on this thread ,the levers dont quite look as long as the one your holding Ron? Tape measures out lads!

email (option): Fuzzyempire@hotmail.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Hamish the brass blade I'm holding is actually 6 1/4" long. But I went round my other bikes and all measure 6". The shape and point at the end of these blades does vary between the manufacturers (Amal, Dowty, Doherty etc)
I have to admit the blades in Henks late contract picture do look a bit like yours. Maybe by then war economies dictated the shorter steel blades? They'll certainly look 100 times better than the post war pressed steel type.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Ron, thank you for the comparison photo - you are absolutely correct, they are 5".
I only saw the shape & style of lever, NOS OD painted brass and I was reaching for my wallet - given I've never actually seen the longer ones I would never have thought of the length of the lever anyway.
I just did a trial fit on the clutch side and it looks and feels OK - the curved end actually gives you a very good purchase on the clutch despite the shorter lever.
I will have to see about making some pivot bolts to tighten-up that part of the set-up as plain screws result in a bit of lost-motion at the pivot.

Given it has taken me years to find these they will have to do for now.

I was going to see if Jiri will provide an unplated set of his replicas before these popped up so I might continue with that for plan 'B'.

Ray

email (option): rays54@hotmail.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Ray it would be a simple operation for an engineer to bore the pivot hole to a correct round shape and bring it back to size with a bush. I've heard that the correct size roller from a chain will make an excellent bush....Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Hi Ray...I don't know who 'Jiri' is but if that means Indian brass levers I wouldn't bother..The ones I took a look at were very inaccurately made and didn't fit correctly. If Jiri is the Czech guy, his levers are steel under the plating, so only a dull chrome replating job would be suitable.(I'm talking about the blades here, the pivots are brass)....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Yes Ian Jiri is the Czech bloke, with the very good quality repro stuff that you know of.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Can someone forward me Jiri's contact information? Thanks very much!

email (option): wingco40@hotmail.com

Re: WM20 control lever questions

Mark
Can someone forward me Jiri's contact information? Thanks very much!


He has a bilingual website and attends most of the big European jumbles.

http://www.vintage-replica.cz/indexE.htm

Re: WM20 control lever questions

It's worth bearing in mind as was, I think, mentioned a while back that the leverage ratio, as governed by the distance between centres of pivot and cable attachment are important on these levers.

Nortons are 1 1/8" between centres and they need this, particularly on the clutch side to ensure sufficient lift. A pre-war custom which they continued initially was a 6" brake lever and 5" clutch side. I'm not sure about WD BSA - 1 1/16" possibly ?

My 1939 controls originally had dull chrome plated bronze clamps and steel levers. The levers happily bend when the bike goes down but the clamps crack which is a bit silly.

Watch out for 1" clamps (Norton or Matchless)There are a couple of screw sytems. Doherty used a shouldered screw and nut.

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