Looking at my RE CO, yesterday before a ride out, I noticed that I have petrol attack on the paint . this has happened on the tank where spills have been made , and also on the primary chain guard,drips from the carb, I have never had this before, ok a little staining here and there but not (pickling), the paint was /is two pack with a matting agent.most of my bikes have when under restoration end up with two pack, that I assumed would put up with more Knocks and petrol spills,My paint man has now retired, so is it time to consider going back to synthetic paints that I have had good results with in the past with me spraying, and can I petrol proof synthetic paint with a clear coat ,I have just bought stone paint( colour) from jeep parts this is synthetic so back to where I started years ago. It takes me a long time to compleat a bike !!.I still have to spray with two pack some odd parts for my WNG and a Flea to finsh them, and will take precautions of course with using this stuff but not keen on using two pack again on any of my other bikes , should I use a top coat of somthing over the two pack when I respray the chain guard and also on the WNG tank that hasnt had any Petrol in it yet ? Am I missing out somthing andrew.H

email (option): warbikes@gmail.com

It is hard to know which paints will be affected by the current fuels...A clear laquer is the answer..they can be bought in gloss, semi matt and matt finishes from paint suppliers....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Good hobby/model shops sell spray cans of "Fuelproof" clear in gloss and matt, this stuff withstands nitromethane and acetone, works over any paint.

email (option): n.gentner@bigpond.com

Yes, This is what I use on the Gold laquered competition mags to protect the laquered finish...it works well..Not sure how much it would cost to do a whole bike though and I don't know if it has the UV protection in the make up like vehicle laquers which help to prevent colour change over time etc.....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I use Halfords petrol resistant laquer on my petrol tanks seems to work ok has been on for some years now.

I hate to admit it, but I always use Halfords own brand aerosol petrol proof clear coat. Just a few dusty coats gives a good petrol proof layer without becoming a nasty looking glossy coating.

That was quick Ian and Neal,Is laquer mixed up with Two pack thinners or is it ready to spray,the aerosol sounds good, any body know of any brands that work, how soon can laquer be sprayed after base coat sprayed..........andrew.h.

email (option): warbikes@gmail.com

So its off to Halfords, to pick up a trial can, Hmm,Is it the ethenol thats the problem ? Ta everybody, andrew.h.

email (option): warbikes@gmail.com

No, sorry, not the ethanol, it's probably the do gooders that have taken out the essential chemicals of the paint to make it durable, no matt paint is durable, try to scrape the paint off an original nos part and then try to scrape off some of the paint of the bits you painted a month ago, the difference is clear. Not one of the paints I've tried is anything near what you would call durable, look at the state of the military vehicles that come into vehicle surplus places these days the paint is usually literally falling off in big pieces. The army I'm sure wouldn't use cheap paints, but I've tried them all and I would use a lot more care when spraying them than the army ever did and it still falls off as soon as you put a spanner near it. I used to work in a spray shop before I got into doing motorbikes and no matt paint is as tough or even remotely durable as the original paint which included lead, paint now chips off whereas the old leaded paint would simply get a mark in it that could be removed with an oily rag. I've yet to see an hint of durability in a matt paint since the lead was removed from it. Gloss paints have come on in leaps and bounds since the lead was banned, why? Because you wouldn't have any paint on your brand new car after a year, but matt isn't a desirable finish for your car, so the technology of matt paint is to simply putt a matting agent into whatever paint you are using which just reduces its adhesion and ability to bond to the primer and at the same time weakens the finish. We have a conundrum in this country, it allows you to buy any finish or type of paint ( including lead based paints) you like for your bike through English Heritage's downloadable form, but the problem is finding the supplier! The government has made the suppliers jump through loads of hurdles to stock the components of the lead based paints that no one will stock them as per usual the the reason they won't stock the components is because the government were kind enough to allow you to buy the paint, but then thought that they could charge the suppliers a licence fee to stock some of the components so for a supplier to stock the red lead primer and matt green they need to spend over £1000 on the licences to stock the lead oxide and lead chromate needed to make them, you can now see the problem that the suppliers have when deciding what to stock, invariably it is the one that they don't need the licence for! Then they will tell you that the one they stock is the best thing since sliced bread. Nobody ever seems to use the trades description act to get any resolution to the problem as most people resume that it is their application of the paint that is at fault.
I have just recently had exactly the same problem with a gallon of expensive 2pack aircraft paint that was supposed to be matt finish, I sprayed it as any other 2 pack and it came out just a finish below gloss, so I complained and the supplier just moaned about having to give me more matting agent and warned me that it would weaken the paint, even with more matting agent it wouldn't go matt unless it was dusted on from about 3 feet away, even though I was using a £200+ gun and knowing what I was doing with it. He was correct about its durability, it wasn't even as durable as the cardboard it was resting on when it had been left for a week to harden fully, I simply slid it along the cardboard a couple of inches and the paint chipped off it. I suppose I should really ask for my money back after all it was £120 for the gallon, add this to the previous gallon of the "best paint since sliced bread" that I purchased, and the one that I bought before that one, I must have spent at least £400 on paint for my bikes and not one of them was durable, just the opposite I'd go as far as to say they were fragile and had no strength whatsoever compared to the gloss version of the same paint.

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Hi Dave..So my reading of your post is that the matting agents put into (gloss) paints to give the matt finish lead to a breakdown/weakening of the adhesion between the base coats and top coat.(forgetting the issue of petrol reststance)
If that is the case then finishing the bike to a gloss finish or base coat matt finish and then using a matt or semi matt laquer as a top coat is the only real answer to creating a durable, petrol resistant matt/semi matt finish?...Ian

Hi Ian/Dave,

Would that mean that a satin finish is somewhere inbetween gloss and matt for adhesion/hard wearing ?

I was considering this to make it a bit more durable.

Darren

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

Hi Darren..From my experience I would definitely say satin is more durable than matt...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

The matt laquer over the base coat (which is a satin finish) would be the better way to go as it appears that the matting agent mixed in with the base coat makes it brittle and seems to impair it's adhesion to the primer. I'm now convinced that the best paint (and one of the cheapest) is the paint from Jeeparts which they can do in a British colour. I've just used some of the light olive drab on a Harley 45 and it does seem a bit more durable than the 2pack pre-mixed that I've started using on the Flea (which now has to all come off again) but what I did like about it is that it is so easy to apply and touch up if it does chip, fortunately I didn't have to buy this paint to try it out as the customer sourced his own paint. What I did like about it was that it wasn't fussy to use or prepare the surface to receive it, all in all quite a good paint in a world of bad paints and is certainly a paint that an inexperienced painter can get good results from.

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

I've used Jeeparts paint for years and pretty much agree with all of that...I've also mixed it to get exactly the colour I wanted..I'm still tempted to put a laquer over that on the next job though to improve its durability further (I hope).Ian.

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Dave/Ian,
My 2 pack paint was 50% matting agent and was still glossy to which the shop said they couldn't put in any more as it will be more matting agent than paint. I have had to dust all my parts to get a matt finish. I'm really good at it now :-)
I haven't had a problem with adhesion but it does crack under the slightest pressure. I was thinking it was the primer that was causing the 2 pack to chip off when doing up anything. I used a high build primer which seems to crumble and the top 2 pack coat come off like an egg shell. I was talking to a mate who has been working on and spraying cars and bikes for 50 years with similar findings. What we came up with is the use a thin layer of etching primer and a thin coat of 2 pack. He's done this on a Triumph he's restoring with great results.
I too have spent far too much as the cost of 2 pack + hardener is ridiculously expensive compared to the synthetic paint from Jeeparts and if I do another matt green bike, that's what I'll use.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

The primer was staying undamaged on mine and the paint was just chipping away from it, the gun I use is a Walcom HVLP gun which is that good a gun it lays the paint on glossy unless it is really dusted on from at least double the distance you would normally spray it on from, which then causes problems with touching up especially round bolts as you'd have to mask off half the bike just to blow in around a bolt. To be honest none of the paints I've tried seem to adhere properly to the primer, I've tried "wet on wet" application, scuffing up the primer, leaving the primer unscuffed and none of the paints seem to stick to the primer which I think is the big issue with all of them (the Jeeparts paint does seem to actually do this better than any of the others I've tried) I've always used the correct primer for the top coat I'm using. I've been using a BSA Army push bike as the rolling test bed for a lot of the different paints I've bought and the result is the same for all of them, I gently lean the bike up against a wall and despite treating it with kid gloves the paint invariably chips away from the primer. I reckon that some of them are that poor that if you strapped the bike to a trailer the paint would come off the handlebars under the straps. What really bugs me is that all the paints were sold as "durable" whatever that means? I take it to mean "tough", maybe the word "durable" is used instead of "tough" to avoid any issues with the trade description act.
What I find frustrating is, that you can legally buy leaded paint to do the job, but I just can't find anyone who makes it (other than red lead) because of the pressures put on the paint manufacturers from the government to only sell the "safer" paints, as usual they put the pressure on them in the form of a "stealth tax" under the name of a "licence" Every paint manufacturer I've spoke to has basically said they know that for applications such as vehicles the lead paint would be better, but they are unwilling to get the licences to hold the raw materials because they fear they would only sell a couple of tins of paint after spending £500 on the licence.

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

One way I've found of dusting a matt finish without standing 3 feet away is to turn the paint right down on the gun and try it on the back of my glove, adjusting it so I can just see the paint. You might have to turn the air down as well but not enough that it spits. I have touched up parts on the bike that have dried glossy and dusted it like this from about 4 inches away and it comes out perfect.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

One of the best features of the Jeeparts synthetic is that it is very easy to spray and forgiving if your technique/gun/settings are not perfect...with varying pressures, non exact paint/thinner mixes and uneven application (paint density) it still seems to dry to a very even all over finish..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Dave, I do quite a lot of spraying and I'm completely familiar with the techniques, as I did work in a car sprayshop for a while and never have any problems with the gloss finishes and I do some custom paint jobs, I think part of the problem is that my gun is that it is a good quality gun that it atomises the paint that well that it always tries to lay the paint on that fine as for a gloss finish, I'm using a 1.2mm nozzle and spraying it at about 6 psi , I've also tried spraying it about 25 psi, hoping the extra pressure would lay it on dustier. I've tried turning the paint down so low that it is barely covering it, and I like you had the same problem with it being too glossy and the paint supplier sent me an extra litre of matting agent which seemed to only just make it acceptable, I now think that the matting agent I put in has now made it too brittle, so I'm junking this paint, rubbing it back to the primer and using the jeeparts paint as I wasn't too impressed that when I slid the frame along the cardboard it was sitting on to put a bolt in a bit easier and a bit of the paint came off, I tried to scratch it off with my fingernail and it came off far too easily for my likening yet the primer was completely intact and undamaged!

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Oh dear...! That's really bad Dave thankfully mine isn't doing that.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

I also went for Jeeparts.co.uk paint and then topped it off with 2K Lechler matt lacquer with a spalsh of matt additive - 20% I think. Stone chips or careless spannering chip down to the primer but petrol resistance seems pretty good. Like a fool I filled it up shortly before wheeling it into the back of my van for the journey home and then left it in the van overnight. Of course the petrol cap seal didn't seal (you learn something new everyday...) and about a third of my tank was covered in petrol runs. Luckily, a damp microfibre cloth was all it took to return it to it's former glory.

The paint has only been on there for 9 or 10 months but still looks ok. Here's hoping it stays that way for 2014...

email (option): lee@twowheelstested.co.uk

Here's what it looks like with a matt lacquer.

email (option): lee@twowheelstested.co.uk

That looks good, I will be looking to emulate that one myself, are the wheels painted the same way Lee ?


Darren

email (option): dwrudd@lineone.net

Very nice workshop

email (option): cooperbaumber@yahoo.com

I put a 2K clear-coat over everything green apart from the pannier rack as, after lacquering so many bits, I thought I'd let couple bits go on 'as is'. Plus, it proved that lacquered and un-lacquered bits look identical.

Sadly, the bike got moved out shortly after that picture and returned briefly when the wife was away for the weekend and I had wiring to sort. As I was looking after the kids she thought it'd be funny to send a photo of her and the girls in a bar. She didn't seem to find it quite so funny when I sent one back with the BSA in front of the TV and one of her soup bowls catching oil from the gearbox. Women, I'll never understand 'em...

email (option): lee@twowheelstested.co.uk