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they have just found over a hundred buried spitfires in their shipping crates and in geased paper in burma
email (option): roger.beck@node6.com
Hi Roger,
I'm following this fairytale for over half a year now..
So far, I've heard people talking about only (!) 20 Spitfires who seem to be buried in pieces in the ground, today the number was adjusted to 60 pcs
Have a look at the following links:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/plans-to-dig-up-buried-spitfires-20120415-1x1oa.html
http://www.smh.com.au/world/plans-to-dig-up-buried-spitfires-20120415-1x1oa.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/burma/9204921/British-farmers-quest-to-find-lost-Spitfires-in-Burma.html
http://news.discovery.com/history/world-war-spitfire-britian-found-burma-plane-120502.html
David Cundall is searching for more than 15 years now, today some articles have been (re)published, but I've never seen one single picture
First see, than believe.......
Regards,
Sven
p.s. I find this story too nice to not publish it here... lovely daydream!
email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com
You have to think about these stories logically..The Forces had a system for the disposal of larger items of surplus equipment which was generally used. Spitfires, particularly new ones, were a very high value commodity..Why would they bury them and not sell them to someone or simply fly the things out of there?
Large quantities of smaller items of equipment were buried for various reasons..I know the locations (verified by eye witness accounts from the time) of three of these dumps in the Plymouth area...
The largest item I have heard of being buried was DR bikes, which were buried on a camp in India when we left before independence because they, and all the other small items also buried, did not warrant the shipping cost back to the UK..The guy who told me that said all larger vehicles were shipped back...
Wrecked, written off Spitfires, old parts for Spitfires etc. might have been buried..but I don't believe new ones ever were. Or new Harley Davidsons, Jeeps or any other vehicles.
I think these are folklore stories that have grown up from the fact SOME equipment WAS buried...
Usually when you hear about things like this they say...'They're there but the farmer won't let anyone dig the field...Yeh, right...Most of the farmers I know would have dug up new bikes or Jeeps pretty much as soon as the last army lorry had dissappeared up the lane! ....So I guess the stories of the Battleship buried near Plymouth Dockyard aren't true then? ...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
I used to work with an archaeologist who had dug an old American airfield somewhere near Hitchin in the late 1980s early 1990s and in a perimeter ditch of the old airfield was loads of rubbish the Americans didn't want when the war finished. Most of it was crockery, old tables, chairs, wriggly tin and so on, but there were at least two very rusty lumps of metal that were once Harley Davidsons. He showed me the photos (which I don't have copies of!) so I know it's true. I can only imagine these poor machines were completly knackered and no good for anything else other than becoming landfill? Hardly the same league as 60 brand new Spitfires I know. Another Archaeologist I knew once found a bundle of cloth on a ledge in a well he was emptying and in the bundle was a very rusty Thompson machine gun and a load of ammunition! Why that was left there, we'll probably never know?
Hi Ian,
from your British quality publisher.........
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/1253604/WWII-tank-is-freed-from-grave-64-years-after-war.html
Regards,
Sven
email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com
I remember when I went to France at about 6 or 7 years of age there were still a few tanks from the war rusting quietly in the countryside...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
If they find them and get a weave on with the restoration, there'll be more Spitfires than Nortons in Normandy in 2014...
As a Norton crack I can tell you I wouldn't mind losing this battle....
but I WANT to be there in 2014!
Regards,
Sven
email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com
like ian said i wouldnt have thought they buried then whole because of the size of the crate and if you know squaddies they would have smashed them up for fun but why is david cameron and a british millionair getting involved
email (option): roger.beck@node6.com
Here is an uppdate from Wednesday the 17th of October.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/spitfire-planes-burma-excavation
email (option): leonhop3@planet.nl
If they had been American Planes it would be almost believable as Commonwealth had a "Lend-Lease" deal with the Yanks so if they were never used they did not have to be paid for.
Thus there were WLA's dumped in places where they could not be recovered, Down mine shafts for example.
However big items were auctioned off and this included a lot of planes & plane parts.
Remember the UK was now bankrupt so any money recovered from surplus sales was desperately needed.
Up in the highlands of NG there were a lot of generators powered by old aero engines.
Considering the prediciment of the Burmeese any thing buried post WW II that could have been used would have been dug up 20 years ago if for no other reason than to recover the metals or weapons.
The idea that the Allies could have dug a hole big enough to house 20 + spitfires then bury them without any of the locals noticing is frankly a bit of a racist joke.
The next phase is to raise the funds required to dig them up,( now that we all know that they are there ) from the public ( because banks will not finance the scheme ) then do some digging while squirriling millions into secret bank accounts.
Any one want to donate ?
email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au
One of the helicopter pilot I once worked with, retrieved Harleys and Indian motorcycles from Burma.
email (option): unpob@yahoo.com
Hitchin Airfield, which one any ideas?
trevor i have got an old army shovel all i need is money to go hi ho
email (option): roger.beck@node6.com
It's been on the news for the last couple of days that the expedition has now left England to start digging for Spitfires, so it looks as though it's going to happen at last. We'll see they come up with?
The report stated they thought there were 'up to' 36 buried...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2013/01/05/search-to-begin-in-myanmar-for-buried-spitfires.html
When we left our position to move up north to the DMZ, we buried a "borrowed" Seabee Jeep, and afterwards, the scoop loader dug deeper and then itself, was driven in and covered. I stood on the edge watching it go. 1968 VietNam
My father's unit, 1st Grenadiers prior to surrendering, buried all weapons, outside Baccarat in the forest. He escaped two weeks later. France WWII,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Grenadiers_Division_(Poland)
email (option): unpob@yahoo.com
Google Million Dollar Point, Vanuatu. Interesting !
There is one metal known to man that doesn't deteriorate underground and their is none of it on a spitfire
email (option): cooperbaumber@yahoo.com
Another interesting site to Google is, Archerfield Quarry, here in Brisbane. Some good photos of salvaged equipment. It is about.
Another interesting site to Google is, Archerfield Quarry, here in Brisbane. Some good photos of salvaged equipment. It is about.
hi,the sad thing is all this stuff was generated for one specific goal'',to win at all cost''.
after it was successfully accomplished,the world had to get back to some sense
of order,and to flood the place with superb equipment for zero return,would have hampered the economy of every country that took part. the equipment had been paid for,manufactured and now was surplus.
easiest way,get rid ,start afresh.
all wars are fought by the money men of the world to protect their vast fortunes
and generate more wealth.
after a few minutes of google,i turned up two very sad youtube videos,the one i wanted was not where i looked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woVz2hqolho and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY7mTCMvpEM
these are just two,what a shame,you may find more if you delve into the past
cheers rick
ps heres another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84nqvJT_LdA
email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com
in 1945 a man in Iceland which owned a steel furniture company asked the US army surplus sales if they had any scrap aluminum. He was approced by offciers of the 33rd Fighter squadron which offered him their complete squadron of 32 each P47 Thunderbolt fighters, which were only 1 years old. A deal was made, making the buying price ca. $5 per plane.
They were scrapped at the airfield and moved to Reykjavik were they were turned into chairs, tables etc. If he would of only kept one intact it would be worth over a million $ unrestored today........
Here are before and after photos from my collection:
email (option): hsteinsson28@hotmail.com
Back onto bike-find stories , whilst living and working out in East Africa for three decades I used to travel three or four times a year to Somalia throughout the '80s before the place disintegrated in 1991 , and had a couple of expat friends up in Mogadiscio into biking. They'd organise weekend runs on fridays (being the muslim day off in the week) together with other local expats and I'd sometimes borrow a bike and join them during trips up there from Nairobi , Kenya where I lived.
One of these guys was friendly with someone in the Mog police who showed him a rubbish dump within the police compound where some twenty odd Harley Duoglides were lying part buried after the Somali cops had finished with them. They were in a pretty bad state but a couple were salvageable and he was able to get one off the cops , later completing a restoration just in time for the country to blow up ! Believe he got it out.
email (option): fanning_james@hotmail.com
Hi,James. I can confirm that story of the Somali police Duo Glide Harleys that were thrown to one side.My brother in law lived in Mogadishu around that time and had his own buisness repairing/servicing vehicles and generators for the embassys and aid agencys.He showed me some pictures of his friends two (i think)harleys that he was rebuilding,as you say ex. police Duo Glides.I know the week before he was evacuated (from the roof of the U.S. embassy)He disabled his landrovers by taking his prop-shafts etc off and burying them in the garden of his house.His idea was to return when the fighting had blown over and carry on as before,that was 20 years ago.So if Land-Rover 110 propshafts ever become collectable i have a rough idea where to start digging Mick.
re spitfires in burma the diggers have flown out to start the digging also i was stationed in cyprus when gadaffi kick us out of libya stuff used to come in from libya to famagusta it was decided what to keep in cyprus ship back to england or baor or dump out to sea i remember four 3 ton trucks full to the roof with equipment one was those black round parafin heaters they went out to the atlantic and were dumped overboard and some equipment was dumped at sea directly from libya including bike and tanks
email (option): roger.beck@node6.com
When I worked in a british bike shop in Plymouth a guy came in and bought a lot of T140 spares...He had bought a quantity of T140 Bonnevilles that were ex Nigerian Police...He paid the approx. equivalant of £2.50 each! These bikes were one of the last batches made by the Meriden Cooperative..some only had very minor faults like a broken throttle cable which the Nigerians hadn't bothered to fix and most had seen only fairly light use...
There were also the late model A65's and the police version of the Tridents (T160 Cardinal) that came back from Libya and Saudi Arabia...A friend of mine bought one of the Cardinals from the dealer that reimported and rebuilt them. He told my pal that some of the virtually new T160s he had 'rescued' had been literally piled up behind a Police station in the desert...Ian
email (option): Ian@wright52.plus.com
Ian, Greenlooms classics bought a few containers of them when I worked there. They were in appalling condition cosmetically, apparently they were ridden until something went wrong with them (punctures etc) and just left at the roadside and collected after a while then put in a yard where they just rotted, some of them showed just 15 miles on the speedo and despite their rough condition they were actually ok mechanically. When the containers came in there were all kind of insects and even a snake in there the bikes looked like they were loaded in with a JCB! I noticed that there were a few Harley parts in there too.
email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com
I know the fate of one of those ex Saudi police T160s
A lad in the next village had one. One evening my dad and me were in our garden when we heard him coming through our village, really giving it some revs through the gears. I knew he wasnt going to make the bends. We heard it scrape the road then crash into our front hedge.
It knocked up a huge cloud of dust, and a dozen startled sparrows.
email (option): Gasboy@btinternet.com
email (option): fanning_james@hotmail.com
Your conversation about bikes in East Africa makes me very tempted to plug a new Great War memoir that I've been instrumental in getting published. It covers the story of a chap serving in East Africa and spending much of the war riding an old Douglas 2 3/4hp dispatch bike through the inhospitable terrain. However, I won't plug it and I'll even resist saying that it's called 'Chasing von Lettow-Vorbeck' and is available now from all good bookshops.
Never mind the Spits out in Burma, what about some a bit closer to home!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/9732585/Is-there-a-squadron-of-Spitfires-buried-in-Birmingham.html
email (option): fanning_james@hotmail.com
It is a fascinating theatre of the war that gets very little mention, it has been said that 'Von Lettow-Vorbeck was forced to surrender an army that had not lost to an army that couldn't win'. Lots of use of motorcycles of all sorts in Africa too, probably lots still out there? In the book, the chap who wrote it says that he comes into contact with the South African Motorcycle Corps who are riding Harley Davidsons, but in the 1919 Daimler/BSA book covering their part in the war, they say that the South Africans were equipped with BSA. It's also available through ebay if anyone is interested.
Spitfire crash lands yesterday
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9786243/Spitfire-crash-landing-closes-East-Midlands-Airport-runway.html
email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk
Bad news on the Spitfire hunt by the looks of it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21074699
Not to worry...We can still enjoy a good 'Battle of Britain' fry up with the WW2 lard that has washed up on a beach in Scotland after recent storms...Apparently it comes from a WW2 frieghter that was sunk off the coast there in 1940 and is still edible... ...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
A proper old fashioned fry up, in real lard, now there's a thought!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2264361/No-Spitfires-buried-Burma-decades-long-hunt.html
email (option): unpob@yahoo.com
The chap in charge of the expedition says that he thinks the archaeologists haven't found any Spitfires because they are actually digging in the wrong place?
Hang on a minute..If he's in charge why are they digging in the wrong place?..He should sack them and get another lot who do what they're told.. ...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
It all sounds a bit odd to me anyway..Some articles say they were buried near the end of the war in sealed crates to stop them falling into enemy hands.(presumably on the basis that they would come back and get them at some point). Well, near the end of the war there was no chance whatsoever of the Japs recapturing Rangoon..but apart from that, why didn't they come back and retrieve the planes?. Other reports say they were buried because they were 'surplus to requirements' at the end of the war..if that was the (more plausible) case they wouldn't have bothered to 'seal' them in crates..in fact they probably wouldn't have bothered with crates at all as they just wanted to get rid of them. In that was the case there wouldn't be too many useable parts left anyway I wouldn't think....
Finally, If the guy does know where they are, why the f**k doesn't he just go and dig them up instead of 'digging in the wrong place'..Does he think they need digging practice?...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Maybe they need the Time Team to get involved, at least they are able to do their Geo Physics properly before digging?
I agree with Ian, Sack him
email (option): 79aust@sky.com
And if the Time Team do find a nut and bolt they'll soon have a computer image of what it looked like as part of a whole Spitfire... ...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
First see, than believe..................
Regards,
Sven
email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com
100 spitfires burried together could be detected with ground penetrating radar from a plane at 1000 ft.
It could also be "found" by using magnetic resonance or earht field interfearence.
A team of archologists can find disturbed soil where some people 2500 years ago dug human graves down to a depth of nearly 100 foot. no need to touch a spade or shovel.
This technology has been around for better than 50 years and in the past 20 has become dirt cheap.
A technically competitant person who knew about "digging for treasuer" would know this.
Scam atrists do not.
The text book for archiology student ( 20 years ago ) was called "Treasures from beneath the soil " or something like that. It is a really interesting read.
With the cost of minerals exploration now days I am sure that all the methods in the book have become 100 times more accurate and 95% cheaper.
You don't just tramp off & did holes.
Researchers locate likely places then the technicians do the electronic search for validation, then tou break out the shovels.
This story is just that, A story.
The first time I heard it there were 5 spitfires which was streatching belief ( unused sensative articles were usually blown up then burned ).
Then there was 12 , followed by 20 and now I see there is 100.
A spitfire crate is the size of a large rigid furnature truck.
SO where would you put 100 of them ?
With the equipment of the day it would have taken 6 months to did a hole big enough.
It would have taken about 1 hour to run over them with tanks to crush every thing then anothe 3 to 5 hours to burn the pile of smashed bits.
A real no brainer .
email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au
It just beggars belief that if there were 100 spitfires buried then why have they found nothing, like Trevor has said, 100 Spitfires would cover a massive ground area, therefore you would always expect to dig in the most guaranteed spot to raise more public awareness and therefore get further financial backing to allow the project to continue, this guy has chucked £130,000 of his own money (I think) into this project for his five minutes of fame. This may of backfired badly?
It would of been a dream if they found such treasure but again why has it taken this long for anyone to be made aware of such an activity in the War?
email (option): 79aust@sky.com
email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au
email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au
talking about ground penertrating radar i wonder whether this new system lydar taken from an aircraft at a few thousand feet might work better some of the results i have seen are fantastic
email (option): roger.beck@node6.com
Had a chat to "err indoors"
the book is
"Seeing Beneath the Soil: Prospecting Methods in Archaeology"
by Anthony Clark
First edition 1986.
paper back editions available every where for about $ 20.00
Seems there was a 1997 updated edition.
Very interesting read.
Shows exactly how easy it is to do and exactly how much of a scam artist all these "Burried treasure" reports are.
email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au
At the end of WW1 the British Army had so many obsolete, knackered old tanks that they started to scrap them and gave almost 270 of them away to towns as memorials. Despite all of this, they apparently still didn't get rid of the last one until the mid 1930s! That's why it's quicker, cheaper and easier to dig a whacking great hole and fill it with stuff you don't need any more.
What did they do with them?...I have never seen a WW1 tank as part of a civic memorial...Perhaps they were underwhelmed by the 'gift' and THEY buried them? ..Personally though, I still think there's an aircraft carrier buried just outside Devonport Dockyard...Well did anyone see HMS Eagle sail down the river Tamar?.....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
One by one they were scrapped. They were all over the place and now the only survivor of the 264 Presentation Tanks is in the middle of Ashford in Kent. Most people think they were chopped up in WW2 scrap metal drives, but the majority were scrapped in the 1920s and 30s. Local Councils soon got fed up with paying £5 for railings, £10 to repaint their tank and so on. Plus, at the time, most people thought that a dirty great tank dripping oil all over the place, hardly helped to enhance the local park or town square and they were a constant and unavoidable reminder of the horrors of the war. Many went for scrap for just a pound or two. There was a scrap dealer in Sheffield who apparently had more tanks in his yard at one time than the Army did!
Bill it is never quicker & easier to dig a really big hole & I would doubt cheaper as well.
Now driving down a spent mine or quarry , that would be feasable.
But digging a hole, fine for a couple of cubic meters of hand tools, weapons etc but not for spitfires.
As the army gave the tanks away it was obviously not cheaper for tanks either.
And I also not the army did not decide to grease then in case they needed to dig them up latter on as these bull dust stories relay
email (option): wariron@tpg.com.au
Don't forget that the army is full of men with time on their hands who need to be kept busy and digging holes is a time honoured tradition in the forces. If you've got something to get rid of and need to keep 25 blokes busy, you just need to get 25 spades and hey presto, both problems solved in one go.
email (option): cruiserchooser@hotmail.co.uk
Over the years I've heard tales of various towns Presentation Tanks being buried, but I've never actually found any conclusive proof that this ever happened. A town council would make a few quid out of selling a scrap tank, but burying one would actually cost them. If you've got a photo btb or know where there is one, I'd be very interested to see it, where is your home town? There are only a hand full of Great War tanks left in the world, they obviously never come onto the market, so they are basically priceless today. If a local council had one buried, it would be well worth their while to excavate it.
If you find one anywhere the lincoln tank group are looking for one .philipe dug one up in france nr cambrai red tape he wont be digging another one up .
email (option): cooperbaumber@yahoo.com
The Friends of the Lincoln Tank have spent years researching these Presentation Tanks and have found photos of just about every one, except, quite ironically, the one that stood on display in Lincoln itself!!
hi,following on the discussion,Salford was awarded a tank,apparently for raising
funds for the war effort.Also there were some captured guns ,and it seems some
guns from the Crimean war.
here is a link if you want to read the fate of these trophys.as a point of interest,pictured behind the tank is the facade of Salford Royal hospital,
this took a direct hit during the Manchester blitz of December 24th 1940,
resulting in the death of many nurses and patients.
you may have to sign in to this site to enlarge the content unless you are better than i at working pooters.
http://salfordwarmemorials.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=957
cheers rick
PS,i searched for spitfire production records,as about forty years ago my brother had two books from the library,one about the spit one about the hurricane,listed at the back were the details of what had happened to each aircraft.
i found this site which resembles a copy of Orchard and Madden .most are listed
i tried to contact the site to ask the questions,but my limited knowledge of pooters let me down again as i couldnt answer the questions relating to what format my e-mail system uses
anyone like to view or ask the questions
http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/home.htm
good luck
email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com