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Crankshaft spacer

The crankshaft bearing spacer # 66-660
fitted to B & M series engines.
I have noticed a few of these with a lot of wear on the ends after considerable service.
If I was to make one, should I use a high carbon steel, or just plain mild??
Thanks Keith

email (option): keithatkinson@hotmail.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

hi keith,the spacer is supposed to rotate with the crankshaft
and the two bearing inners,so if you see a churned up one the bearings have locked at some time causing one or other inner race to spin on the crank.
if you make your own ,it will take the same time for either material ,so use what you have to hand.
cheers rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Hi Kieth..The original bearing spacer was not hardened but there would be no harm in doing so to make it more durable...I have thought of doing it myself. You will have to use a piece of silver steel and flame harden it after making it.
The spacer should measure 1.000"-1.005" long.
It is common to find wear on this spacer, even in engines that are running well and don't have bearing problems.
The spacer is locked between the bearing by the pressure of the engine shock absorber spring.
I think that over a period of time as the shock absorber operates there is a degree of 'fretting' between the parts as the spring pressure fluctuates, causing the wear......Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Also perfect time to check your chain alignment (its very common to find its out of line due to clutch centre "taper position" varitions sometimes as much as 4mm).
Clutch centres are found to vary in where they sit in the mainshaft.
often shimming out that spacer is needed to get it correct & as you are making a new spacer you have a fantastic opportunity to set your drive alignment up perfectly, there is enough leaway in the set up to let you add a mil or two in length to the spacer (even if 4mm is needed) the added bonus is a bit of extra preload on the spring which has often weakened with age.
A quick check of your drive sprocket will show which side is getting worn & a good clue to misalignment, its very common.
The most common reason for spacers wearing is the locking nut being nowhere near tight enough & people leaving out the locking washer.
Very few people even think of checking the alignment & it is hugely beneficial if it's spot on.

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Fred,

Very well said.

Jeff

email (option): jjbandoo@aol.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

after writing it i realised there's no extra preload on the spring when the entire mechanism is moved the "nut to sprocket distance" remains the same
But that wasn't the main aim anyway ....

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Am I confused here? The spacer 66-660 is the one between the drive side bearings innit? So it has no effect on the clutch to engine sprocket alignment, or does it?
The other spacers outboard of the bearings and under the sprocket/shock assembly are different and do influence the alignment and it might be worth making up your own to ensure 100% alignment.

Just a thought though on the original post. How much spare time do you have? A new 66-660 costs 4 quid, surely the time spent making one would be better spent down the pub.

Cheers

Pete

email (option): petercomley@web.de

Re: Crankshaft spacer

I never fit the tabwasher to the shock absorber nut. I tighten the nut all the way until it comes up against the end of the cush drive sleeve and then knock it up tight.I haven't had any problems with it loosening...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Yes, i should stay off forums after the pub, i saw reference to the shock spring & thought the outer spacer was being discussed OOOOPS apologies!

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Worth mentioning though Fred.. ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

I managed to scrounge a large pin from the company scrap bin
Thought it was hard, but its only mild. I would have liked to use something a bit harder than used in the standard part. never mind.
The OD of the roller bearing inner, excluding the champher, is about an inch and a half.
The OD of the ball bearing inner is approx 1.320", and the original spacer OD is about 1.310"
The height or thickness of the outer and inner bearing rings can vary a bit, depending on the brand.
I'll cut a spacer to about 1.320" OD, that should do it, but not after the pub though.
The excess I can use to make an outer spacer, and get the sprocket alignment correct in the process.

email (option): keithatkinson@hotmail.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

why don't you fit an original one?

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Because the original ones that I have are worn Henk.

email (option): keithatkinson@hotmail.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Hi Kieth..When you make the replacements note that the I.D. of the inner and outer spacers aren't the same..so don't bore the inside to the bigger size all the way through!...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Inner and outer spacer I only see one, 66-660 plus a shim 66-661 (by the way, what thickness?)
Now I will pass a sleepless night

email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Keith Atkinson
Because the original ones that I have are worn Henk.


Couldn't you just clean up the worn spacer in a lathe and shim it to the right size?

I must still have a few NOS spacers, not sure where I put them.

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Hi Hans..There is one spacer inside the crankcases between the main bearings..and one on the outside between the outer main bearing and the engine sprocket carrier..I blame Fred for the confusion.. ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer


Not seen him for a while

Re: Crankshaft spacer

I seem to remember someone saying that shimming the bearing spacer isn't a good idea as there can be some relative movement between the parts (see how the originals get battered) and any shims may break up and go walkies around the bearings. Or am I wrong.. again??
Cheers
Pete

email (option): petercomley@web.de

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Ian Wright
Hi Hans..There is one spacer inside the crankcases between the main bearings..and one on the outside between the outer main bearing and the engine sprocket carrier..I blame Fred for the confusion.. ...Ian


Sorry Ian, still can't find that second one. It doesn't show on the cross-section:

Spacers 1

and on the exploded drawings I only see 111:

Spacers 2

Spacers 3

HELP !!

email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Gents
Yesterday my gearbox & entire primary side was removed, first time in approx 30years

Behind the inner cover I found a felt type packing in the crankcase immediately surrounding the bearing carrier on the crankcase, there are 3 deep cavities separated by reinforcing ribs

Is this normal to find ?

Must also check for this spacer located behind the Cush drive assy

Any ideas on the felt ? Prt no availability etc


Many thanks

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Hi Hans..There are two types of 'carriers' for the engine sprocket when used with the '4 lobe' shock absorber assembly..One is a 'one piece' part and has the spacer machined onto the back (and therefore it is hardened) and the other type is used with a seperate spacer. The exploded drawing you have posted shows the one piece arrangement and the shoulder (or spacer) on the back of the sprocket carrier can be seen..but not as a sperate part....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Aaahh, that's the thing! I have that kind of sprocket. Is it year-specific?
Thanks,
Hans

email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl

Re: Crankshaft spacer

John O'Brien
Gents
Yesterday my gearbox & entire primary side was removed, first time in approx 30years

Behind the inner cover I found a felt type packing in the crankcase immediately surrounding the bearing carrier on the crankcase, there are 3 deep cavities separated by reinforcing ribs

Is this normal to find ?

Must also check for this spacer located behind the Cush drive assy

Any ideas on the felt ? Prt no availability etc


Many thanks

Job


You mean these? These were obviously for weight reduction, to make the WDM20 more nimble in the field

Drive side detail

email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Ian Wright
Hi Hans..There are two types of 'carriers' for the engine sprocket when used with the '4 lobe' shock absorber assembly..One is a 'one piece' part and has the spacer machined onto the back (and therefore it is hardened) and the other type is used with a seperate spacer. The exploded drawing you have posted shows the one piece arrangement and the shoulder (or spacer) on the back of the sprocket carrier can be seen..but not as a sperate part....Ian



The last engine i put together was a 1938 "M" model, the 38 M20 has a different setup again to either of those, it uses a very short inner spacer & a long outer, almost a swop around of the WM20 setup, & that's actually where my confusion arrived from after seeing mention of an 1" long spacer i discounted the mid bearing spacer which on the one i built was only about 3/8" long.

They must have realised the outer bearing could be given an easier life by outrigging it into the unused space.

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Yrs Hans

These were filled with a felt material

Have you seen this before ?

Jo'b

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

No John, never seen that in my WDM20, those cavities were empty. Have only seen that when I was young, and playing with my toy cars on a carpet, they finished full of felt-like stuff in the gears
But perhaps Ian knows more

email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl

Re: Crankshaft spacer

hi keith,how are you getting on with your spacers?did you check your bearings for obvious signs of damage ?is there any wear or
scuffing on your crankshaft journals?.
if you use a bit of carbon steel for your bush,you can heat it to a dull red and oil quench to toughen it up.
i cant myself see why if everything is locked up why the spacer became churned up in the first place.anyway let us know how you get on.
cheers rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

There is no evidence of the spacer scuffing on the shaft. Just a groove worn into the ends, where the spacer was trying to follow the contoured shape of the bearing inner. (chamfer) Does that make sense???
I think Ian is correct in saying that the ends get fretted over time, from the action of the lobes on the cush drive mechanism, and the pre-load of the spring. ect.
Anyway,
I made 2 spacers out of a mild steel pin.
The ID is 0.985"
The OD is 1.324"
and the width is 1.005"
The diameter of the crankshaft on the drive side is 0.984"
I cut them without removing the piece from the chuck, so that all the surfaces are dead true.
They slide on with just the slightest amount of play.
I'm happy with that. Job done!!!
Unfortunately I can't harden them, as they are mild steel.
I guess I'll have to wait for the next rebuild, to see how they stand-up.
As Ian pointed out, these spacers were not hardened when they came out of the factory.
Keith

email (option): keithatkinson@hotmail.com

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Keith Atkinson
....
Unfortunately I can't harden them, as they are mild steel....
Keith


You can surface-harden them with Kasenit powder; heat cherry-red, then cover with the powder, heat for a couple of minutes or longer for deeper penetration until the stuff melts, and quench. The surface will be glass-hard. I made single-use lathe form tools from mild steel to turn alloy and brass that way!

email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl

Re: Crankshaft spacer

Thanks for the tip about the Kasenit powder.
I'll investigate that for sure. It must cyanide based product.
Keith

email (option): keithatkinson@hotmail.com

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