When discussing high visibility on this forum, or with MPs/MEPS, it's worth remembering that merely being seen is NOT the problem. It can actually be counter-productive. It can lead to driver fixation.

For instance, vehicles parked on the hard shoulder of a motorway with hazard lights flashing are commonly walloped by passing traffic. This includes police and other emergency vehicles too. Drivers sometimes lock onto what they see. Bright lights and highly luminous colours are the worst "offenders". Ask the advertising experts.

Remember that ships and other military vehicles were often painted in high visibility "dazzle" to confuse the enemy. U-boats could see the "dazzle" ship, but couldn't work out its speed and direction. See the parallel here?

A reflective bib can therefore, in many circumstances, actually BREAK UP the outline of a bike and rider (effective creating a "dazzle" effect). In other words, you might be at GREATER RISK by wearing this reflective clothing than by wearing plain black. Or grey. Or khaki. Or whatever.

A single-point light (i.e. bright headlight) can actually mask the speed of an approaching motorcycle leading drivers to pull out in front. Two headlights are slightly different. They DIVERGE on approach, and that helps decode their speed.

A daytime headlight can also appear to flash when approaching a bumpy junction. That too can cause vehicles to misinterpret the flash as a "come on" signal and pull out.

Everyone assumes that simply being seen is enough. Well it ISN'T. I've lost count of the number of "lollipop" school crossing attendants who had barely glanced at me when stepping out in the road, (confident that they were wearing a reflective bib and could be seen).

Road safety is far more complicated than that. There is NO one-fix solution, except ultra defensive riding and constant driver education (i.e. posters and TV/radio ads). Tell that to your MP/MEP. If you're already routinely wearing a high-visibility vest, it won't necessarily make you any safer on the road. You'll just think you are. Police officers are knocked off their bikes too (but there might be a few other reasons for that )

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

I totally agree...It is dangerous to make the assumption that because you wear Hi Viz you are automatically safer. This is the nub of the arguement in fact.
No evidence has been put forward from a detailed experimental study to test that assumption one way or the other.
Issues of cost, personal choice etc. etc. are really secondary to the question of whether the strategy is actually effective.
Assumptions about effects and the resulting application of untested theory to a particular group of road users..which itself is plainly both illogical and discriminatory, are not a sound or justifiable basis for the implimentation of compulsory law and it is this aspect that should be focused on initially...
If the case was conclusively proven in favour of the advantages of HI Viz as a sound basis for legislation THEN the question of choice (or compulsion) would become the main issue.. An alternative view of the situation is this...you can currently receive a jail term for travelling at 'excessive' speeds..even if you don't cause an accident. The courts consider the offence a serious enough risk to other road users to warrant your temporary removal from society. I believe in the case of a driver who pulls out of a junction in front of a oncoming motorcycle and DOES cause an accident through blatant negligence, the automatic and routine application of similar penalties would result in a sudden increase in motorcycle visibility...without the use of a square centimeter of Hi Viz clothing...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

tell me about it...the only time i was scat off was riding in good daylight to plymouth docks..with a headlight on, white leathers and white helmet...

email (option): chris.astinbarker@btinternet.com

My subjective experience is that when I am riding a big wide Honda PanEuropean or BMW GS1200 Adventurere I rarley get people cutting me up or pulling out in front of me.
When I am on a medium sized bike like my Commando or Yammy XT600, I occasionally get people pull out in front of me.
When I am on something small and unintimidating, like my WM20, or what drivers deem unworthy of manners or consideration I am constantly cut up.
I believe it is a self risk/power/prestige status assesment made in a fraction of a second by most drivers.
Visibility is not the issue,,,, self preservation (of the car driver) is.

I base my empirical judgement on 46 year of riding anything between 50 and 1300cc

I will of cousre be be writting to my MP, but I expect his reply (as with all other motor cycle matters) will rhyme with "duck off, I couldnt be less interested, there is nothing in it for me to persue this"

email (option): Gasboy@btinternet.com

Peter, I think you're absolutely right. For many years, I've been arguing that learner riders should not be piloting small bikes.

I think they should be riding very BIG bikes, albeit with limited power (but not too limited). Drivers generally have little respect for small machines. It's human nature.

But creating legislation to deal with this would be tricky. I think we're stuck with the current thinking. For the rest of us, I think it's a question of riding defensively and, perhaps equally importantly, assertively.

Making eye contact is one of the safest tactics you can use, but you've got more years on two wheels than me, so you already know this.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

To make MP's more receptive, you should always end with "Remember, Bikers are voters too!"

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

My experiences are broadly the same as Peters..I've been riding for 42 years..but have covered a lot of miles as I have never driven a car.
What we are up against is the engrained, but completely incorrect belief that motorcycles are difficult to see..That is accepted as fact when the fact is it is nonsense...Which of the following is more difficult to see? A lamp post, a dustbin, a pedestrian, a dog, a bicycle, an Elephant.?
Answer?..none of them...the human eye is entirely capable of discerning different objects of widely varying sizes...the problem is the degree of activity that is going on in the brain that recieves the images. When a driver 'automatically' scans the road at a junction his brain may pre programmed to only see images of a certain size...everything else is not recorded. For instance he wouldn't notice a bee that flew past his window in his direct line of vision.
Many of our driving responses are 'automatic'..do you remember when you change gear..or what colour the traffic lights were on the way to work? Just think back over a recent journey...what can you actually remember?
It's all a question of what is in your 'programme'... unless you consiously look for everything. You should do that in certain circumstances...but many drivers don't, simply relying on the ' auto pilot'...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Sir Ewok
I have wrote to my MP three times recently, (hunting with dogs, the effective ending of trail bike riding in the UK, non EU national visa restrictions) and each time he has basically told me to fuck off, he couldnt be less interested, there is nothing in it for him to follow it up. All he is concerned about is his career.
So he is is not interested in my vote, what difference will it make in Tory held Banbury?--- Not a jot.

The only way to make yourself heard these days is with direct action, turn up at at a MAG or BMF rally.

1, sorry for swearing
2, sorry for boring the non uk readers with our politics

email (option): Gasboy@btinternet.com

Wearing Hi Viz clothing is, in my opinion, an admission that you are prepared to accept the concept that you are difficult to see...which I do not.

Ian, that was one of your earlier posts, brilliantly worded and why I have never worn any Hi viz.


Tonight as dusk fell, I was thumping along at 45mph on my Yam XT600 along a quiet country lane,,, there was a walker in the kerb,, in a green coat,,, I hadnt seen him until I was quiet close to him,,,, so what is next-- got to wear hi viz to walk along a lane at dusk?

email (option): Gasboy@btinternet.com

is this a bit like when the compulsory us of crash helmets was first muted everybody protested but now except a small minority are still against it i do'nt think hi vis will do anything to cut accident what is needed is driver education if i think someone is following me to close i will stop/slow down and wave them past and let them go

I have also written to my MP...although I agree with Peters sentiments broadly. The only real motivator for a sitting MP is the belief that there is a threat to the safety of his seat, or in other words the votes he might not get as a member of an unpopular government.
The thing most likely to make a Government think in the same way and to modify its behaviour is without doubt large scale, well publicised demonstrations.
Sadly we don't actually have a representative democracy..Just think how many of the things the Government do (as our elected representatives) which were not voted for or even in their manifesto at the time of the elections.
The inevitable result of this situation is the growth in 'direct action' protests which currently are the best chance you have of producing the result you want and bypassing a corrupted and non representative parliamentary system.
To bring this back to the subject at hand..MAGs recent protests were a laudible effort but basically innefectual. I went on my local 'protest' and it had virtually no effect and barely made the news. 40,000 riders took part nationally..sufficient numbers protesting you would have thought to make the National news...result...zip..nada...nothing.
If 40,000 motorcyclists had turned up at Westminster the result, and the impact would have been entirely different.
When you consider the amount and scope of new legislation that is continuosly being thrust upon us and the fact that no one voted for it, or was consulted in a meaningful way about its validity before its implementation, I personally think the only conclusion you can draw is that your voice is not being listened to and an alternative to 'parliamentary democracy' such as 'direct action' is the last hope...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com