As my bike is a late war machine and has the cutaway in the fuel tank, and the photos Henk kindly sent to me of very close production bikes, also in the C555 range all have Vokes fitted on the line at BSA, I have decided I would like to get a Vokes filter and fitments. If anyone can supply me with one, perhaps they could e mail me? thanks
And prior to that, to get a genuine Vokes and all the attachments you will have to kiss your bank balance goodbye ...I recently sold an original filter and hose for £425 an was told it was too cheap...Ian
what kind of air filter would an earlier wm20 have??
barry
No dust was allowed to occur in the British Isles....
In any case, British bikes were apparently thought by their makers to be impervious to wear from dust and grit ingestion...hense were most often fitted only with bellmouths...
Hi Barry...Civilian Home market models were generally not fitted with air filters (they were an optional extra)..export (or colonial models in earlier days) were.
As far as WD M20s were concerned those used in North Africa that pre dated the Vokes were frequently fitted with a 'canister' filter mounted by the top of the rear mudguard stays and connected to the carb with a flexible hose.
The filter itself was cylindrical and louvred...very similar to the filters fitted to industrial engines, tractors etc..WD machines used in the UK and Europe were not fitted with a filter usually...but there is that one photo of an M20 with a Vokes in Italy....Ian
I think you're right Rik..I bought an M21 from an old boy years ago that had 104,000 miles on it...he had owned it from new and had kept track of it. That one was still running the original piston, though it had been re ringed along the way...Ian
With an M20 a lot depends on atmospheric conditions..on a cool damp day the full 13 BHP are available and ready to rock and roll...on a hot, still, summers day, about three of the horses will have stayed at home in the shade with a nice cool drink ...Ian
The Triumph tank-top "parcel grid" of the 1950'5 to early 60's was an infamous emasculater, finally withdrawn after a nasty lawsuit. The Vokes is higher and wider, since WM20 riders have bigger balls. 13 BHP notwithstanding.
I still have a scar on the inside of my right thigh after coming off an ex-Police BSA Thunderbolt many years ago that had a tank mounting for a radio... I was lucky.
Well unluck to have a Land Rover pull out in front of me but lucky to still have my...
in the 1960 one of our motorcycle gang had a crash on a triumph with one of the tank were two halves welded together and covered with a chrome strip which went throught a part of his nether region very painful and they swelled up to tennis ball size
Doctor... Can you get rid of the pain but leave the swelling
Rik, this is the 16H spec according to Wiki
Manufacturer Norton Motorcycle Company
Engine 490cc, side valve air cooled single
Top speed 68mph (109 km/h)
Power 14 bhp @ 4,500 rpm
Transmission Four speed gearbox to chain final drive
Suspension Girder front forks, solid rear
Brakes drum brakes
Weight 388 ib (176 kg) (dry)
Fuel capacity 3.5 gallons (16 litres)
So I'm sticking to the arm wrenching 14bhp as the figure
Hi John...Seeing as we are wandewring off topic on this post...I have found quite a bit of variation in.. performance?..between the considerable number of M20s I have ridden. Some are remarkably sluggish and others relatively quick. I guess varying degrees of wear, differences in settings, gearing, even the 'aerodynamics' of the rider etc. all make thier contribution to the final result.(and I sometimes wonder if loaded pannier bags slow down the ones that can go past 60mph)
Designed top speed as standard, when new, was 58mph...but I have definitely ridden quicker ones.
Speeds for the Norton are a subject for some debate..and in my mind at least that debate has not been resolved... The consensus is that the Norton is considerably quicker than the M20..but a perusal of the two bikes statistics reveal a near identical specification in wieght and power output. As speed up to approx. 60mph (the approx. designed top speed for both models) is governed by power to weight ratio and to a degree gearing in the lower gears (and beyond that by aerodynamic forces and maximum power produced) I still find it difficult to identify just where that performance difference originates..if it does in fact exist....
Any suggestions?...Ian
Ian, my only suggestion is radar gun: measure it. I would be shocked if either bike honestly clocks at anything near 68 in an unmodified form. Of course, you tune them, so you have probably experienced more speed, and there is folklore (some say proof) of M20s breaking the ton, but obviously those machines are modified. I don't believe that changing the gearing, alone, will do it. The engine simply doesn't have the power to pull any more. This can be proved by picking up speed on a downhill and then trying to maintain that speed on a level road, wide open. Initially it does well but invariably slows down to the 50s. The power is simply not there.
My 41 WM20 will clock 76 mph according to a mate of mine who took the MPH reading of his harley speedo .If I take the reading of a 100% chronometric speedo then max is 65MPH on a good day but most other days is 60MPH no mods only 21 tooth engine sprocket and carefully built engine. Dave....P.S I dont fancy a vokes
....The consensus is that the Norton is considerably quicker than the M20..but a perusal of the two bikes statistics reveal a near identical specification in weight and power output....
Perhaps its a fact along the lines of the red Ducati's being 5 mph faster than any other colour.
As the owner of a 16H and a (very tame) red Duc i would have to subscribe to both theory's.
What is a comfortable cruising speed is dependant on the bikes abilities but also on how hard you are happy to push it..any two riders might conclude that a different speed is 'comfortable' for the same bike if they were both to take a ride.
In comparing the Norton and the M20 I assumed comparisons between standard bikes...it would be unreasonable to make a straight comparison between my 720 M20 and a standard 16H...other than to show what is possible.
Both BSA and Norton sidevalves have turned in very respectable, documented 100mph plus speeds in tuned form.
I think gearing can alter the perception of a bike. In my limited experience of riding Norton 16Hs my impression was they were lower geared in first and possibly second with a larger 'gap' in the middle between these gears and 3rd and top. The M20 seems to have more evenly spaced gears.
Although a tall top gear, beyond a point, would not really help top speed for the reasons mentioned by John (lack of the power to pull it) the lower gear ratios at the other end might provide sharper acceleration..a factor in the impression of 'speed'.
Whilst I don't discount the possibility that the Norton IS faster than the M20, if that were the case I would like to identify a logical explanation for it..On the subject of red paint and its use on performance vehicles I once managed to convince someone that the reason for its use was a difference in the molecular structure of the red pigments that resulted in a 'smoother' aerodynamic surface..
The Roy Bacon Norton singles book, in common with most older sources, I think, quotes 12.5 bhp for the post-war 16H and 14 bhp for the Big 4. They're very useable horses.
My 16H will clatter up past an indicated 60mph on the Jaeger patent but I'm a bit of a coward and I've never been any faster as I've never found a piece of road long and straight enough to give me room to stop within the distance that I can see to be clear (something to do with the curvature of the earth's surface in combination with the 16H's brakes, I believe)
I think that Ian's correct about the gearing aspect. The 16H does seem to be able to hang on to it's revs when it comes on song and if it is necessary to change down due to hill or headwind, it doesn't lose much speed due to the closeness of third to top. The M20 though is held a bit slower by maximum comfortable revs in third.
The other factor of course is that having bought into all the race-bred 'Unapproachable' thing, Norton riders are all thrashers !
John re read my post 76 MPH on a harley speedo is 65 mph on a chrono speedo, yes some of them are that far out,but 65 MPH on my WM20 isnt.We had one of them flashing readout speed check signs in a village close to me that was on the route to a friday night pub meet I clocked 65 MPH on my WM20 It became a competition over the two weeks this sign was there to see who could clock the fastest speed on that stretch of road.. Dave.
Going back to the Vokes, they have a very military look about them which made me think I would like to fit one, so last year I bought one of the Indian replicas, but it was so poorly made I got rid of it and gave up on the idea. Rob.
rob thanks i am going to use your quote next time i see my doctor i am not fat just un-aerodynamic good one i am not bother about speed just love cruising along
I just love the character of my old M20. I've got a few 60's/70's/80's Japanese bikes and although most of these are a great deal faster than my M20, I still find myself chhosing the WD bike.
Just for the record though, and speedo accuracy aside, crusing speed varies between 50-55mph with my out-and-out maximum being 60.
I've never experienced the Vokes scream - has anyone filmed/recorded it and put it on Youtube yet?
I liked the sound of the Vokes filter 'induction roar', it makes the bike sound very different. I was quite happy to get rid of the filter once I realised it was incorrect for my bikes year of production..but I do miss the lovely sound!...Ian