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wm20 cush drive tightening

hi all, i fitted the cush drive set up and when i tighten it up it seems that the engine wont turn or its very tight, the piston ect is not fiited but i have not got the nut fitted to the timing side, is it pos that once the nut is fitted to the timing side it will pull the shaft over??
when i loosen the cush nut it will turn
thanks barry

email (option): mrsbfuller@hotmail.co.uk

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Barry, some cush drives have the spacer that sits against the main bearing integral and some have a separate spacer ring. It sounds like you are missing the spacer ring. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

hi ron there are spacers fitted on the shaft before the bearing, theres a wider spacer on first and then two thin shims.
barry

email (option): mrsbfuller@hotmail.co.uk

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Hi Barry..The first thing you need to do is check that the back of the piece that carries the engine sprocket is not contacting the crankcase. If it is you will need a thicker spacer.(but bear in mind alignment of the clutch and engine sprockets).
If that is not contacting the crankcase you will need to check the spacer that is fitted between the main bearings (on the drive side) to ensure it is within tolerance..(1.000"-1.005")..in fact that should be checked anyway if you haven't already done so as it positions the crank within the cases.
Also, if you have the crank in the cases with the timing gear fitted but no nut (or a loose nut) on the timing side, as you turn the engine it will force the crankshaft pinion against the back of the bush in the timing side outrigger plate making the engine go tight. If that is the situation you will find the engine loosens off again if you turn it backwards, or in the opposite direction to normal running....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Barry just to be clear. The piece that Ian referred too, as "the piece that carries the engine sprocket". Some have the distance piece machined into the back and some have a separate ring. A friend of mine once omitted this ring and wondered why his engine wouldn't turn when he tightened the cush drive nut. It's easy to see which type you have. Not so easy to check the 1" spacer between the bearings once installed though. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

I agree, which was why I suggested checking the sprocket carrier first.(Always start with the easiest things first!) However, it is important that the main bearing spacer is within tolerance to ensure correct meshing of the oil pump drive spindle teeth and the crank pinion. A spacer which is substantially undersize may cause tightness as the drive side nut is tightened and the gears become incorrectly meshed.
Even if the fault is not that extreme though, the spacer should be within tolerance to avoid excessive wear..so it still needs to be checked if the correct dimensions have not been confirmed prior to assembly... ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

my main bearing does have the separate spacer, russell motors gave me the parts i need, the spacer is about 8mm and the shims about 1mm,
i tightened the nut on the timing side and i could turn the shaft easier.
barry



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email (option): mrsbfuller@hotmail.co.uk

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Hi Barry...The spacer etc. looks OK...have you checked that the back of the engine sprocket sleeve is not contacting the crankcases when everything is fitted and the nut is tightened? The spring you have is either a pattern replacement or from a later shock absorber with two lobes instead of four.
The four lobe set up uses a spring wound from flat wire which has less poundage than the later one. This is because the two lobe cam form allows the cams to move more easily against each other so a stronger spring is needed to limit their movement.
You can check the action of the shock absorber when everything is assembled.
If you slowly turn the engine over on the kickstart until it comes onto compression the shock absorber cams will start to move against each other. One cam should move about a third of the way up the adjacent cam before the spring pressure overcomes compression and the engine goes through compression.
Too little movement and the absorber is not doing its job...too much movement and you run the risk of the cams jamming open if they 'top out' under heavy acceleration.
Also, the three bolts that hold the inner primary cover to the crankcases should have cross drilled heads and be wired together to prevent a 'nasty' with the engine sprocket/primary chain if one of them comes adrift...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

I am depressed! I have exactly the same problem. When I tightened up the cush drive I cannot turn the engine. When I take it off, its perfect. tell me please, that I do not have to strip the engine out and down again? I mean worse things have happened in my life, but this is really stupid. Everything went back together as far as I can recall as it came apart. What could it be? what a nightmare.

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Hi Andrew...You need to start in the same place as Barry...first confirm that with everything fitted to the end of the crank the engine sprocket sleeve is not contacting the crankcase...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

maybe the spring is to strong?. on top of the crankcase
there are cut outs either side, should the con rod be central to thees cut outs?
barry

email (option): mrsbfuller@hotmail.co.uk

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

sadly I cannot see anything untoward on the outside of the engine. I have a different set up to Barry, in that mine has a spacer integral to the main spline drive unit. This slides on the crankshaft and butts up agains the main bearing I guess? Then you fit a washer with splines cut out in it, then the cushdrive parts and then the spring and then the nut. Clearly, as I tighten the cushdrive the crank is being pulled tightly to the drive side. What I am angry about is there was nothing to suggest in the manual that this is a critical exercise. I put the units back together as they came apart but did not check clearances as they were ok before. clearly this where my mistake lay. I really dont want to have to take the engine down again. I think I will have to have a rest from this project., grrrh

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Hi Andrew...I don't recognise the splined washer you mentioned...it sounds like the shock absorber nut tab washer but that is not fitted on before the cush drive parts ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Andrew just walk away from it for a while.
ian i tightened the nut on the timing side, i took out the two thin shims on the drive side as i used a metal ruler to align the clutch sprocket with the engine sprocket and they are almost spot on with out the shims.
i tightened the cush nut and it seems i can turn the engine shaft by pushing and pulling the con rod with ease, i think once there is oil flowing it should be fine.
barry

email (option): mrsbfuller@hotmail.co.uk

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

indeed Barry, I need to walk away from it. I thought I was on the home straight, and whilst this sort of thing does happen, I have to say I dont plan on it happening to me! I dont expect to have to strip an engine twice. Anyway, lets hope something else is to blame, but I really dont think so. Ian , the washer fits on the outside of the hub unit and under the nut from memory. There are no shims under this hub, and it just fits on the crank, and is tightened up with the nut. Clearly, there is something incorrect internally which is allowing the crank to draw over to the driver side. the whole thing was perfect when assembling it, just some tightness in the oil pump but I worked on that, and now this. Does anyone have an exploded schematic of the cush drive and the crankshaft assembly please?

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Ok all you experts. I didnt walk away from it. I took the cush drive off and refitted it without the primary drive chain, and there is no restriction on the engine turning over. So , there must be something going on other than the cush drive........I hope. Anyway, i am going to sleep on it, and perhaps by tomorrow it will all be clear, or else one of you nice chaps will have come up with the answer for me.

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Hi Andrew..So did you just removed the chain?..Did you fit the complete shock absorber assembly including spring, sprocket etc. etc.?..and tighten everything fully?
Barry....The connecting rod should lie centrally in relation to the crankcase joint..the cutouts in the cases can be used as a guide and you also have the crankcase joint to sight across. Although this provides a rough guide to everything being correct it is not, in my opinion, a sufficiently accurate 'test' to rely on and isn't even necessary if the crankcase/crank assembly has been correctly assembled. The crankshaft 'floats' within the cases (ie. it is not shimmed to control end float and positioning.) However, the outer drive side bearing is fixed in position in the crankcase (this is why the circlip is fitted, to eliminate any possibility of the bearing moving) and when the shock absorber assembly is tightened up the crank is pulled over to that side of the engine, thus fixing the cranks position in relation to the fixed bearing.
How far the crank is pulled over is controlled primarily by the spacer that fits between the main bearings on the drive side. The length of this spacer is specified to ensure correct positioning of the crank.
It should measure 1.000"-1.005"..so there is a 5 thou tolerance...or put another way a 5 thou maximum variation in the position of the crank within the cases.(at least theoretically...all the other components such as flywheels, crank pinion,oilflinger etc. will also have had a production tolerance and there remains the possibility that these were selectively assembled originally to achieve a specified overall tolerance..no information exists on this subject so unfortunately it cannot be allowed for..)
Positioning of the crank central to the cases has nothing directly to do with the conrod/piston. The rod could be 1/16" off centre and it wouldn't matter as there is ample free movement either side of the small end bush.
It is done this way to ensure correct meshing of the crank pinion and oil pump drive spindle teeth.
Therefore everything that affects the position of the crank within the cases ,on the drive side, should be checked during assembly.
So, the spacer should be within specified tolerances...the boss on the side of the flywheels which the oil flinger plate sits against should be flat with no raised burrs or damage evident. The oil flinger plate should be flat, not reduced in thickness by wear and sitting flat against the flywheel boss.
If these conditions are all met the crank will inevitably be located in the correct position when the shock absorber assembly is fitted and tightened.
As the conrod is a forging with no clearly defined centre line, the irregularities on its surface tend to 'distract the eye' and it has a side to side clearance in the flywheels of at least .010", using this to estimate the cranks position visually to a tolerance of .005" or less is never going to be accurate enough...and even if it were, there doesn't seem much sense in finding out it is wrong after the cases are assembled...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: wm20 cush drive tightening

Fingers crossed all seems well now. I removed the chain, removed the cush drive, put it all back together and so far no problems. I am confident that the crank went back as it came apart so it should be ok. I will know more when I try to start it up. thanks Ian and Barry

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

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