Found this picture in a copy of 1944 "Motorcycling" any comments?
It's somewhat different to the 1945 B31.
Cheers,
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
Very interesting Lex..The first BSA model with Tele forks was the 1946 B31..introduced in August 45 I believe...and of course this was based on a redesign of the WB30. Developement of both this and the rigid A7 twin were commenced before the end of the war.
The B31 also featured the speedo mounted in the tank, although with a 'bayonet' type filler cap.
My guess would be an early prototype version of that, but this is clearly in military spec...so perhaps BSA had an eye towards post war military contracts for the B31. I'd like to see some more pictures. An interesting feature is that it has a dipswitch..but no adv/rtd, valve lifter or choke levers in evidence and it has one solid and one pressed steel handlebar lever blade as well...If it was the B31 I would definitely consider replicating that..
...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Did they mention how..or to where, they had relocated everything?...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Hi Michiel...Taking into account the subject of the article I think you may well be right...when did the C10/11 get it's tele forks?....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Hi Ian, telescopics and speedo in tank from april 1946 according to Roy Bacon's Singles restoration. Regards, Michiel
email (option): m.wijbenga@hotmail.com
I have a similar picture of my B31, but I need someone to show me how to post it.
Thanks Keith
Keith, mail me the pictures, and I'll post them for you.
Here's the whole article:
Don't know if it's readable?? Note date!!
Who was J. Lowrey????
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
I have a similar picture of my B31, but I need someone to show me how to post it.
Thanks Keith
Hello Keith, found the page which you mean. Top picture is a 1945 B31 with telescopic forks as you can see. The bottom picture is the 1946 C11 still with girder and throttle cable through the handlebar. Regards, Michiel
email (option): m.wijbenga@hotmail.com
Here is Keith's Picture, asked him for pictures from the book, but Michiel has posted them already! thanks!
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
This is the earliest B31 information I have, 5 Sep. 194? Could this be 1944? Would they still make a rough press proof in September 5th 1945?
Henk
email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl
After they had been looking for a lightweight standardised motorcycle in 1939 - 1940, and after the hybrid experimentals of 1941, the Army had decided on 350cc OHV models (Ariel W/NG, Matchless G3/L, Royal Enfield WD/CO, BSA WB30) and a 500CC SV Norton 16H. But in 1944, the Army was looking for a standardised model again. They had set their eyes on a twin now… So Norton, BSA, Triumph, Douglas and Royal Enfield were all asked to come up with a new prototype. The new specification still stated that the prototypes had to be of 350cc OHV or 500cc SV capacity.
Norton came up with a 500cc SV parallel twin with telescopic front forks, as did BSA and Triumph. The design of the Triumph was already nearly two years old at that time, and had been featured in contemporary road test in “the blue ‘un” and “the green ‘un”. This model later evolved in the TRW. Douglas had made a 602cc SV transverse twin, an engine layout that had been their speciality since the First World War.
Could this be the 500cc SV parallel twin with telescopic forks that was BSA's entry for this test I wonder? The Royal Enfield still exists (in the National Motor Museum in Beaulieu, http://nationalmotormuseum.org.uk/?location_id=335&item=211&offset=50), but I've never seen any pictures of this BSA prototype...
Jan
email (option): wd.register@gmail.com
Hi Jan...The BSA prototype still exists but in private ownership. The guy who restored it from a basket case did so with no knowledge of its military background. Years back I was taken out to dinner by Bert Hopwood (that's another story!) and among other things I took along was a magazine feature on that bike.(which I probably still have)..At the time I just considered it an interesting curiosity...When I showed the article to Bert he had a good look and then said..'Well, he's made a lovely job of it but that one was a military machine!'...Not as bad as the sidevalve Norton though..which Sammy Miller decided to finish in the Norton Grey even in the full knowledge it was a military bike...Grrr....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Hi Ian,
I know that Sammy Miller owns a bike that's made with what was left of the Douglas late war prototype, but I didn't know he had the Norton as well... I'd like to see a picture of both of these!
Here's the Douglas:
And this is the Enfield prototype, now in the Beaulieu museum:
Jan
email (option): wd.register@gmail.com
It's a shame the picture originally posted appears not to be a B31...That is the one bike I always wished they had made a military version of...apart from the post war examples supplied to Foriegn Governments
...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
The picture server I use seems to be down! never had that happen before, hope they fix it soon
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
Hi Glen...I have never seen them marked that way. In your case they were probably M20 cams originally..they are the same profile and therefore interchangeable.
When I last went round the museum at Beaulieu I found the Royal Enfield prototype far more interesting than the Triumph 3TW as it displays much more original thinking...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
This 3TW??
Or was there a later version too??
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
That's the one..
..and there are two versions...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
..and there are two versions...Ian Yes, boring!! we discussed the 2 versions a while back, when I posted the Black and white pic's.
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
Hi Henri...That is a really nice early B31..I wonder what it sold for?...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
My BSA XB-31 1945/46
email (option): keithatkinson@hotmail.com
Hopwood's book mentions that the BSA was designed by Turner after he'd defected from Triumph and Sangster got Hopwood to make a quick rival and release it sooner to steal Turner's thunder. Apparently it worked and BSA were not at all pleased.
I just found an article about this bike in the December 1984 issue of The Classic MotorCycle. The weird thing is that they describe it as a 1953 motorcycle!
Jan
email (option): wd.register@gmail.com
Here it is in the Sammy Miller Museum.
email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk
I always considered Sammy Miller wanted his ass kicking for deliberately changing that bikes colour to a civvy one...not very good for a 'museum' ...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Ron, that's the bike I asked you to take pictures off!!!
Here a scan from BFM:
It must be a postwar picture, with the buddy seat and taillight.
Lex
email (option): welbike@welbike.net
Change a tank and seat and it looks like a completely different bike.
Sammy Miller's is brilliant 
I went there for the first time this year and I was blown away with the bikes there. Much better than the national british motorcycle museum. There are bikes at Sammy's I didn't know existed, definitely worth a visit.
email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk
Hi Alex..There is at least one bike at Sammy Millers that didn't exist...though it does now and he has invented a history for it...My brother in law sold him the prototype Triumph engine... that had never been fitted to a bike.. and Sammy 'made up' the rest, and a story to go with it.. ...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Hi Ian, I remember you saying about that just after I'd visited the museum. Luckily I took a picture as it was a "prototype" I think it was this bike wasn't it..? A twin 2 stroke, I think it was 200cc that was put into a Tiger Cub frame.
email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk
Hi Horror..that's the one..my brother in law bought the engine from an auction of Triumph prototypes and developement engines. There were some complete bikes at the auction..this was not one of them...documents with the engine confirmed it was a 'bench test' prototype.
He had ideas of fitting it into a cub frame and found one for the project...but you know how it is..
Sammy placed an advert in a Magazine for interesting projects for his museum and my brother in law responded. He sold the engine, other parts and, crucially, the supporting documentary evidence to Sammy, explaining its history to date at the point of sale.
It then went off to Sammys museum and got completed..and was given a ficticious history into the bargain. I have to confess I was pretty surprised when I saw it in OBM under the headline..'Sammy turns up another rare prototype' or something along those lines.
Being an old cynic I always considered that this was a move to 'create' a more valuable machine...after all a complete 'prototype' bike has far more value than just the engine.
That has rather coloured my view of the way Sammy operates though...a museum is supposed to record history, not invent it...
The Triumph and the sidevalve Norton (which was deliberately misrepresented as a 'civvy' machine) are two clear examples...I wonder if there are more? ...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com