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Never seen one of these before...

A friend of mine was in Perth Scotland yesterday and spotted this...

Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

I've never seen one before - any ideas?

Re: Never seen one of these before...

It looks like a model 120 they were a very good sidecar hauler and I think that is about all they were really designed for, they didn't make any sporting models, just big singles for sidecar work. I bought one from a guy that lived between the Manchester ship canal and the Mersey, on a thin strip of land, I decided to ride it home, it had no steering damper, cats and chickens had been living in the sidecar and the sidecar was flopping around wildly. I'd never ridden a sidecar before, so I just decided to take the bull by the horns! I hit the first pothole on the dirt track and promptly veered off towards a 20 foot drop into the ship canal, my girlfriend pulled me out with the car ,so I decided to turn around and remove the sidecar coming back for it later in the van. I turned round and promptly hit the same pothole causing me to veer this time into a pile of brambles!

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

It's a model 100 600cc looks like postwar 46 or so as they were fitted with Dowty air forks I think 49 on. I had a 1950 one rode it solo for a year or so, nice machine had the performance of a B31 with a sidecar took 4 of us around europe in 64 and my wife and I on our honeymoon to the lakes in 65.

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Definetly a postwar M100, I had a 1938 outfit, toured all over europe with it! was even fast on the motorway, with standard gearing.

But this can even be a '49 or '50 model, as the girders are not original.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Re: Never seen one of these before...

I had a later Model 120...crude but effective. They were built in Cleckheaton, Yorkshire. I paid £10 for mine back in the early 70s. They finally went out of production when Lucas stopped producing the magdyno and there wasn't enough money in the kitty to retool the engine for an alternator set up etc.
Gearbox supply was also a problem I believe as the manufacturers also ceased production as demand throughout the industry fell.
The Panther had a reputation as a long stroke slogger..in fact the stroke wasn't that long. It just looked that way as it had a long barrel and conrod to allow direct connection of the head to the frame, eliminating the requirement for a down tube.
They also only had a feed oilpump..an oil flinger on the flywheels picked up the oil from the sump and threw it over a 'wier' into the oiltank..which was cast into the front of the crankcase.
Even at the time it was considered an oddity as many of the design features dated back to the early days of the company..This one looks as if it has had some modification in the dynamo/electrics area...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Yes an M100 pre-1947. The dowty forks were from 1947 - 1953. If I could veer off topic (of M20s) ... I have a 1949 M100 in pieces and in need of parts including the gearbox. A Burman G42 or GB29. Getting the word out never hurts.

cheers,
Scott
Wisconsin

email (option): sd246@sbcglobal.net

Re: Never seen one of these before...

I think the Norton Big 4 wins the stroke contest at 120mm, the 19S Norton is 113mm and the M21 112mm while the Panther is a girlish 106mm. ..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Ian Wright
They finally went out of production when Lucas stopped producing the magdyno and there wasn't enough money This one looks as if it has had some modification in the dynamo/electrics area...Ian


Ian, they did make alternator prototypes, but it was indeed too expensive, but the main snag was the Burman gearboxes, they were only produced for Panther, nothing else anymore!!

Btw. the electrics on this one are standard for the years.

Parts availeble here:



No, not really, it's just the sign left now! and I only have a Phelon and Moore to ride on.

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Re: Never seen one of these before...

A very common bike when I was a lad. I think the saying was 'Fires every lamp post'. It seemed (compared to Tiger 100's and BSA Gold Flashes) to be a very slow revving engine.

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Scott
Yes an M100 pre-1947. The dowty forks were from 1947 - 1953. If I could veer off topic (of M20s) ... I have a 1949 M100 in pieces and in need of parts including the gearbox. A Burman G42 or GB29. Getting the word out never hurts.

cheers,
Scott
Wisconsin


Scott, if you have the main gearbox housing, you can use the rest of the Ariel/Burman heavyweight internals, and outside covers. I may be able to source you a main housing though, with the 90 degree mountings.

Let me know,

Lex

ps, anything to steer away from M20's will do me!
It's a WD forum anyway, and would like to see users put more makes in their captions, as most people assume it's only for M20's. And the 1938 Panther was officially tested by the RAF for war use, have a picture somewhere, so it's not "off topic" at all.

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Re: Never seen one of these before...

The early model 100s had a seperate dynamo suspended from the frame and driven by a chain from the mag, hence the long case that looks like a bodge, in about 1950 they went for a normal mag-dyno unit.

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Ian Wright
I think the Norton Big 4 wins the stroke contest at 120mm, the 19S Norton is 113mm and the M21 112mm while the Panther is a girlish 106mm. ..Ian


Big difference here Ian, that the Panther is an OHV!

But I know Big Fours rule

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Re: Never seen one of these before...

there is a chap rides around localy on a vellocette oily rag condition with a belt driven alternator off the drive side crank in front of the engine

email (option): roger.back@node6.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

I did look at the possibility of fitting a Big 4 flywheel set to my M20...770cc sounded quite interesting. However, fitting the stronger BSA big end, conrod and the BSA mainshafts, although possible, was too much work for another 50cc....shame that... ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

hi,i wonder where they got the idea from
http://www.yesterdays.nl/images/BSA-1930-Sloper-493cc-LR-1.JPG cheers rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

rick
hi,i wonder where they got the idea from
http://www.yesterdays.nl/images/BSA-1930-Sloper-493cc-LR-1.JPG cheers rick


Yes, I wonder too where BSA got the idea from???



1904 P&M, or Panther.

Remember BSA only started making motorcycles in 1910, P&M in 1900.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Like a lot of things, sloper engines where probably a product of fashion. A manufacturer will make a sloper and if it is successful others will copy to cash in on the sloper craze. Most had moved away from this style of engine but poor old P&M where stuck with it (though it did still sell well for sidecar use).

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Roger that's quite normal with Velo's. Here's my MAC(WD)

Ron

Photobucket

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Sir Ewok
Like a lot of things, sloper engines where probably a product of fashion. A manufacturer will make a sloper and if it is successful others will copy to cash in on the sloper craze. Most had moved away from this style of engine but poor old P&M where stuck with it (though it did still sell well for sidecar use).


I accidentally read a few days ago that it wasn't fashion alone, the sloping engine also helped to put more weight on the front wheel which was very welcome as the power of the engines rose and the front wheel tended to lift more and more off the ground. (Speed and how to obtain it). Never seen it that way before. Regards, Michiel

Re: Never seen one of these before...

ron the one i saw just has a pully stcking out of the primary chaincase an open drive belt and the alternator is hanging in the middle between the tank and front engine mount not like your posh set up

email (option): roger.back@node6.com

Re: Never seen one of these before...

Sounds like a bodge up Roger! Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

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