Not being one to easily give up, I wonder whether anyone can offer some ideas help ( pm me if you like) on how to recover my registration. My Dad purchased our M20 with the registration painted on the bike in 1976. It was obvious that this was its road registration and whilst we did not receive the registration document, ( we may have but if so Dad has misplaced it), this number belongs on the bike. I have checked for records with DVLA and other organisations, but it appears that our M20 was registered in 1961 in Nottingham and the records for this time and area have gone to the great paper dump in the sky. As an aside, who in local Government offices thought it would be ok, to "lose" the record books ????

Anyway, we have never used the old girl on the road , so the registration has not been relevant but for us, for over 35 years she has worn her Nottinghamshire number with pride, and I want it back. DVLA will not play ball as they say I need a tax disc or log book or similar to authenticate their failure to source and secure records from local vehicle record offices. With no disrespect to those of us who have reissued numbers on their bikes, mine has always had this number and it belongs on the bike. It would be like re naming Margaret Thatcher, Mary. we have had her about as long as we have had our M20! Any ideas please? cheers Andrew

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

As far as I'm aware, you're stuffed without some form of official paperwork. Mike Worthington-Williams is probably the best person to give detailed advice (Does he still have a column in OBM ?)

The records were destroyed on the instructions of Swansea after they took over and allowed a certain period in the early 1980s to apply for all 'lost ' numbers. The local authorities who kept some records were actually disobeying a direct order !

There's nothing to stop you having an off-road 'display' plate.

The only way that I am aware of that you can retain an original number in these circumstances is if you can prove the vehicle is of 'particular historic interest'..ie 'I've got George Formbys Norton' or similar. Your average WD M20 won't pass muster on that basis.
I fear you might have to have an age related plate and just hang your original on the workshop wall as a momento...
If you find a way I'd be interested to hear about it....Ian

thanks Rik and thanks Ian. but all you others please keep the ideas coming. So, I know that the bike was sold in mid 61 via Ruddington , thats on the key card. It did not travel very far and was registered just up the road in Nottingham in late 1961 according to the plate. So, next line of thinking is to try to find the company/dealer who bought it. I know the army post war reg and the date it was disposed of, so can I find the company that bought it? Any one got the ruddington records? Or alternatively, were there any big bike dealers in the area back then?

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

hi andrew,the ruddinngton records do survive in the nottingham archive ,the auctioneers were walker,walton and hanson.but i think you will have a monumental task.if you google ruddington you will find amidst all the local history stuff an interview with mr hanson talking about these auctions.i would love to trawl through all that paperwork myself ,they did six sales a year selling upto 2000 bikes a sale,for 25 years.you can e-mail mike worthington williams at worthycomments@btconnect.com i think he is the best man for advice cheers rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

hi Rik,

thanks. I have already e mail MIke Worthington Williams and intend to you his services, but at the present he cannot help. The records dont exist and so he tells me I will have to go for a reissue. I am at the point beyond that, where I am now scratching around for another lead, as I dont want to give up on this. 1961 is not that long ago........I was born in 1961!

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

Firstly, you need to check with DVLA that your number is still unissued, as now DVLA are making money from selling numbers many unclaimed numbers have been sold on. If this is the case, there is nothing you can do. You desperately need some sort of proof that this is your registration number. An old green or buff logbook or some other paperwork, even old photos, then a letter from an owners club saying that your bike is completely original and a historic vehicle. Saying the bike isn't original won't help your chances. This would be the way I'd go, but without proof you have no chance. I could say my bike's reg is "BSA 1" otherwise.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

hi andy,i put some info about this and my thoughts up a while ago,if you trawl back through the posts or search ruddington on this site,someone put an auction catalogue on.each lot was listed by its then military registration number,two numbers,two letters,two numbers.
so if your bike has the brassplate attached,sometimes on the tool box,rear mudguard,tappet cover,etc,stamped on there is the military registration number.
you could then go to the archive,search through the thousands of registration plates until you find your bike.
you may get lucky search only 1960/61 to start with.when you find it you will have a sale date,then surely the dvla will be able to tie it down to within a few days of the sale .your dad would have gone to buy a useable bike,ready to rock and roll,not one to put in the shed and think about for a couple of years.
where are you based,im in manchester ,nottingham is a fair trip for me,just to search through some paperwork,but if i find the info i want about a bike i had forty years ago,i'll be down there like a shot.
hope this helps cheers rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

hiandy,just checked back,look for ruddington end of july beginning of august on this site,use the search box and the green arrow top left ,dont go to index or you will be there forever cheers rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

Andrew. Proving the original reg number of your M20 could be a waist of time. The number might have already been sold or allocated to another. If it's out there as a 'Cherished Number'? There is a system within the DVLA that can confirm this. In addition the DVLA can contact the owner on your behalf to ask if they would be prepared to sell it. Or if the DVLA hold the number you might be able to purchase it from them.
I'm not fully conversant with the workings of the DVLA in this respect, but I do know it's possible.
A local rich bloke that I used to deliver gravel too, had JHB 1 on his Merc. By contacting DVLA, he was able to buy JHB 2 and JHB 3 for his other two cars.
I know it seems ridiculous to have to pay for your own number back.....But then I have heard that you are one of the richest men in Kent Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ha! Rich, I wish!

I dont think the number has been sold or reallocated, but I could approach it by asking DVLA if they would sell it to reallocate to the bike I suppose. Its sounding like it may just be the one that got away. In fairness I have a letter my Dad wrote to DVLA in 1984 asking for the documents, and the answer was the same then as it is now. Show us some evidence. Would a photograph not do the job? I have loads of photos of the bike with its numbers on?

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

I think that's possibly the way to go Andrew! Gather all the photos and information and throw yourself at their mercy. You could ask M W-W who the lady is who he gets a lot of good response from. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

You're not alone Andrew. I just took this off another forum. This chap has had exactly the same problem. Ron


My posting was probably a bit misleading Woodie. The ES2 didn't have a Q reg. I meant that I'm glad that it didn't end up with a Q plate. It's the first time it's been registered since the 60's. Unfortunately, the original records were lost, so I had to start from scratch with a NOC authentication and all that.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

If it was me Andrew, I'd be turning the parental house upside down. Did someone take the tax disc holder off the bike ?

do you know, I cannot recall whether there would have been a tax disc holder on the bike when we bought it. I think not. We bought it from a motobike/antique dealer for £60 in 1976 and its quite likekly he nicked the tax disc holder for another bike he may have been using at the time. I am sure Dad would have asked for a log book, and if he had not got one, he would have written to DVLA there and then, which leads me to think............its in the house somewhere!

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

Have you tried http://www.kitheadtrust.org.uk/vehicle_records_5.html

They have all the records that didn't transfer across when the DVLA was 'Computerised', and if they have any record in their database I understand that the DVLA will accept their say so !
Good luck, and let everyone know how you get on ! ( And DON'T say Right leg first ! )

email (option): jetmorgan@tiscali.co.uk

going to the DVLA in person might resolve the problem but dont make any other arangements for the day and take anything you can find which are relevent a friend and i went to sort out his licence to solve a licence problem which they said couldnt be done a few hour and a new licence was in the post a week or so later

hi Guys, I have tried the Kithead trust thank you. They do have the Nottingham Borough records only up until 1947 and my M20 was registered in Decemeber 1961 ( bet that was a bit cold!) It went through Ruddington in about October 1961. Anyway, a trip down to South Wales is a possibility, but not sure I have the necessary temperament to deal face to face with "more than my jobs worth sorts" I always wondered why they have glass windows in front of the counters at licence offices! I have posted a note on the nottingham town forum, in the hope that it may throw up someone who recalls the bike, long shot but stranger things have happened. I was chasing the history of an old car that had resided in Hull and was owned by a Doctor in the region in the early 1960s and posted a note on the Hospital website forum. I had a terrific response which led to me tracing its history pretty exactly. Meanwhile, I have set my father on a mission to find the documents thx

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

Following on from my last post, I just checked the Nottingham forum and received this.

Dawson's Motorcycles who used to be on Shakespeare Street bought ex MOD M20s by the score from the Ruddington Depot's Auctions. They would spray them green, register them and sell them nationwide.

Your bike has a 1961 Nottingham registration and would be one of hundreds that Dawsons sold. Your bike could have been 10 or 20 years old when registered, but they are super reliable, spares are easy to get, and it's rumoured they will run on parafin. Please don't try it.


Now all I need is the record books for Dawsons and we are off to the races! Anyone????

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

hi andy,a trip to swansea is not necessary there will be an office local to you http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/contactus/localoffices/findnear/england.aspx cheers rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

Hi, Andy I had the same problem with a 1949 BSA B33 that had been laid up since early 70s.I went to local DVLA office who confirmed number was still available but I needed proof it belonged to bike.The only thing I had apart from frame/engine number rubbings were a tax disc holder which was rusted and the disc was not legible but it did belong to bike.Took bike to local museum, who are registered with the DVLA and they confirmed it was original with untampered numbers.I collected all paperwork I had photos,rubbings and old tax holder and went to local office.They then photocopied everything including old holder and gave me a stamped receipt.I then sent this lot to swansea and received a letter back saying they wished to inspect bike,anyway on arrival they said everything was ok apart from the frame number they had on there records being different,turned out to be a clerical error from the early 60s.I was told to wait for them to contact me.3 weeks later I had my new v5c with correct frame number but the guy I had bought the bike from 4 months previously turned up with the original rf60 log book complete with wrong frame number, Maybe you could also find a rusty tax disc holder worked for me..Dave. oh yeh my neighbour across the road looked at the bike one day and said it was his fathers old bike from the sixties and he used to ride it when he was a kid....

nice story, I wish mine works out like that, the only difference in the story as far as I can tell is that DVLA had a record of your bike, as they knew the frame number was incorrect. According to DVLA now, they have no records of my bike. I find it hard to believe that they have records for yours from the 60s but not mine from the same period. I sometimes wonder whether they have the records but want to keep the numbers to sell and raise money. I do like a CONSPIRACY theory.

email (option): andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com

Andy good point about DVLA records.If my number was still available and they knew it belonged to my bike then why the hell did I have to get a DVLA approved agent to inspect it to confirm it had corect numbers as I had already showed them rubbings of frame/engine numbers & photos of complete bike .Just glad I got the original number that belongs to my bike.Dont give up you just need to find the right person in the system to help ,might take a while though Dave.

looks like im gona have the same problem with my 1940 wm20, the bike has been unused for well over 35 years
i have no paper work but it does have a reg number, i know its army number and c number and the bike was based in scotland.

email (option): mrsbfuller@hotmail.co.uk