Hi

I love my 1944 bsa wm20 and it's time to paint it. My question has to do with resale value. I know the bike is worth more if you keep it military, but how much more? There are a lot of nice civilian color schemes out there.
Thanks

email (option): jeff@infinitymedspa.com

I will put a vote in for military trim. Go civilian on your second M20

email (option): micran1234@yahoo.com

I personally would leave it in military colour, but research some interesting tank unit markings, if you look at Henk's page here http://www.wdbsa.nl/division_markings.htm
you'll see some examples. I realize it is a matter of personal taste, but an M20 in civilian colours would be lacking a bit in it's proud heritage.
Kind of like a neutered British Bulldog
Vince

email (option): vinver@ns.sympatico.ca

If it's a question of values there's nothing to consider...there is probably a £1000 or more difference between military and civvy versions.(on the UK market) Also there are more buyers for the military bikes.
The civvy bikes are considered by many to be a 'cheap option' as a classic bike...the military bikes are highly valued by those who are interested in them.
Saying that though...unless you are REALLY concerned about resale values none of that should matter.
Primarily, in my opinion, we shouldn't be too obsessed about money. After all how many of us bought the bike in the first place just to make money?
A military M20 can be turned into a very nice late thirties style single with a little thought...the main thing is to do it well.
There are plenty of military bikes out there to represent the history...it's about doing what you want with it and enjoying it..If you keep all the specifically military bits you remove from it either you or a future owner will have the option of thinking again at a later date if desired....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi,
As Ian will know I have a very odd desire to own a Pride and Clarks overhauled M20 finished in the all over red/maroon.
They had all the millitary bits but were all repainted.
Just call me perverse but there are a lot of khaki drab bikes out there and the post war civillianised military bike is somewhat forgotten now.
Regards
Clive

email (option): cliveandjo@lineone.net

the trouble is someone looking for a civilian classic motorcycle will see your civilian motorcycle as a converted military machine you would have to change petrol cap and oil cap and even the petrol tank and oil tank to civilian types then there is the cost of having the wheel and other parts chromed plus stove enamaling of all the parts all that cost is the price for another motorcycle

Once the decision is made to make the bike non standard any finish, tank etc. etc. is ok if you like it. If the bike is done as a 1946/7 model these retained most of the military parts, including the petrol tank. Wheels were finished in black, not chrome. BSA simply removed a few specifically military parts and refinished the bike in a civilian colour scheme..this enabled them to quickly get a 'civilian' bike to the market when the war ended....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

We all indulge in classic bikes for a variety of reasons , and I would personally vote for keeping your bike in military spec , as it is more of a crowd puller than a civvy machine . I admit without shame that one thing I love about old Brit bikes (I own eight) is that wherever you park one you can bet there will be at least one person gawping at it when you come back .

email (option): leifevans75@yahoo.co.uk

I probably wouldn't change it either..largely because I have had numerous similar bikes to the civvy version in the past.
Clive stated his interest in having a 'Pride and Clarke Special'..something I quite like the idea of myself. My own M20 was one of those and I remember it before I bought it when it was still in that finish...That was part of the history of my bike, though not the part most people choose to focus on. History nevertheless.
Thousands of military bikes were civilianised after the war...this would just be another one.
I don't propose either course of action particularly...I think in the case of the M20 they are common enough for it not to be an issue. In reality though, there should probably be more M20s presented in post war military and civvy trim..In the case of the 'military' M20 a total focus on the wartime period could be interpreted as rather an unbalanced view of the past...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I don't know if the M20 spec was the same for military and civvy models, but with the Norton 16H they were different. Nearly all the rigid/girder civvy 16H's aren't actually civvy spec but ex WD models. Some are very nicely done, but I do think of the bike as a tarted up military bike. The trouble now is you have to know your stuff to know if you're buying a genuine civvy model, even the sellers don't realise the difference.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

One of the advantages of a WD finish is that it gives access to several different types of events. It will be welcome at old motorcycle events, especially if they're trying to encourage girder forks and also gives access to MV meetings (and a simple change of markings will let you do wartime or post-war).

Not long after I got back from Normandy, the VMCC was bemoaning how difficult it was to get people out on girder bikes. It was quite amusing how an ad hoc group there managed to put ten or twelve out for a run each day. Most VMCC sections can't manage that so it might be that the WD bike scene is more active.

The early WM20s particularly can look nice civilianised but I don't think that a later one would command a higher price.

Nortons are a bit strange. I can spot the high ground clearance WD frame at about 150 yards but many people do seem prepared to pay top money for over polished civilianised examples. Any girder-forked Norton will sell itself. This might be because Nortons ended up with such odd looking geometry when they put 'Roadholder' teles on the rigid frame.

I think you're quite lucky that you have a choice, to go 'military or civvy'. Over here in India we aren't allowed to paint a bike olive drab unless it has military plates on it or it's hidden not ridden.
My M20 is in it's post war civvy get up now i.e like Ian said -1946/7 model that retained most of the military parts, including the petrol tank (and the same goes for my James ML)-and it gets it's share of miles in when I'm home to ride it

Hard to beat the look of a chromed tank though!

Thank you for the concise and well put idea. It is appreciated.

Ian Wright

If it's a question of values there's nothing to consider...there is probably a £1000 or more difference between military and civvy versions.(on the UK market) Also there are more buyers for the military bikes.
The civvy bikes are considered by many to be a 'cheap option' as a classic bike...the military bikes are highly valued by those who are interested in them.
Saying that though...unless you are REALLY concerned about resale values none of that should matter.
Primarily, in my opinion, we shouldn't be too obsessed about money. After all how many of us bought the bike in the first place just to make money?
A military M20 can be turned into a very nice late thirties style single with a little thought...the main thing is to do it well.
There are plenty of military bikes out there to represent the history...it's about doing what you want with it and enjoying it..If you keep all the specifically military bits you remove from it either you or a future owner will have the option of thinking again at a later date if desired....Ian

email (option): Jeff@infinitymedspa.com

Do you have any pics of this overhauled version?

Clive Andrews

Hi,
As Ian will know I have a very odd desire to own a Pride and Clarks overhauled M20 finished in the all over red/maroon.
They had all the millitary bits but were all repainted.
Just call me perverse but there are a lot of khaki drab bikes out there and the post war civillianised military bike is somewhat forgotten now.
Regards
Clive

email (option): Jeff@infinitymedspa.com

Tasty , I have to admit . I once had a go of an M21 that looked very much like that , belonging to a guy much like myself , i.e. an ageing hippy living on a remote Welsh farm . Im on the England/Wales border and he was down in Pembrokeshire . Wonder if he's still got it. I suppose the thing to remember about re-painting a machine is this is an alteration which can always be easily undone . The most unpardonable sin in my book , on the other hand , is making classic bikes into 'choppers' , and I actually knew a guy who was doing his best to persuade me to do just that to one or more of my classics . Needless to say I ignored him . He died suddenly about three years ago . Karma?

email (option): leifevans75@yahoo.co.uk

Hi Jeff..I don't have any photos of the bike when it was in it's 'Pride and Clarke' trim. However,what they offered was a completely overhauled military machine in civvy paint.. The specification was exactly as a military M20 with all military parts still fitted, including pannier bags.
There were two colour options..either all black or all maroon.Plating finishes were as the military bike with no bright chrome. I knew the chap who bought the bike from Pride and Clarke in 1968 and then bought it off the chap he sold it to (who was a friend of mine), so I have known all the owners and the bike since it's release.
Mine was an all maroon one and they painted everything including the engine and gearbox. This was not a 'line it up against a wall and give it a squirt' paintjob, the bike was completely stripped and properly refinished. I kept the original headlamp shell off mine when I rebuilt it which still has the original maroon inside if you should happen to want an exact colour match...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

hank paint your bike in desert sand colour with the C number on the tank and a inconspicuos divisional signs

Thought you may like to see mine! She is an a example from 1940 an is known as Katy (from the film "Ice Cold in Alex, and prompted by Harry Andrews comment of "Katy weighs all of two tons you know!"), when bought(from a dealer) in 2008 she was still in military trim, what looked like a very bad job done with a tooth brush and was mechanically well worn, so i rebuilt her in six weeks (all done at home) to a style as was seen in the fifties, dull zinc plate and household gloss. she does about 4000 miles a year on VMCC and other club runs and is my only motorcycle, and everywhere we go people come and say hello (she even won best pre 1950 at Ardingly last year!)
As you are probably aware these military machines went through the workshops more than once so most are not the original engine / frame / gearbox that left the factory and also went to different units on service, the point is its your bike so do what you like and don't worry about the money, enjoy owning and riding, you can always change the colour back

a vote for military trim-if you want my opinion-when i was 19 years old i paint the bike civilian-what a mistake-and strip it down over the years to painted again-so military!!

email (option): stafis3@gmail.com