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war time triumph twins

This comes from the December 1990 issue of Classic Bike:

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Does anybody know what happened with these engines? Are they complete motorcycles now?

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: war time triumph twins

Hi Jan

I found this on the web a while ago.

Lot 439 : 1939/40 Triumph 350cc 3TW
Auction Location: United Kingdom - 2007
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Price Realised:
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Title:
1939/40 Triumph 350cc 3TW
Description:
A development of Edward Turner’s ground-breaking Speed Twin 500, the 350cc Tiger 85 would be one of WW2’s earliest casualties, being cancelled in September 1939, only to be resurrected as the basis of Triumph’s response to the Ministry of Supply’s specification for a military motorcycle. Coded ‘3TW’, the latter was a 350cc overhead-valve twin that departed from Triumph’s customary practice by virtue of its unitary construction engine/gearbox and the adoption - for the first time on a motorcycle - of alternator electrics. An all-alloy engine helped the 3TW comfortably meet the Ministry’s requirement that machines weigh less than 250lbs, and even when the aluminium shortage meant that a cast-iron barrel and ’head were adopted, the 3TW remained commendably light. It was also quite powerful, overly so in the Ministry’s opinion, but was acceptable once suitably de-tuned and the contract duly went to Triumph. Sadly, few - if any - machines had been delivered when Triumph’s Priory Street works was destroyed during the blitz on Coventry in November 1940, and all means of producing the 3TW were lost. This machine’s all-aluminium 3TW engine was purchased by its late owner at the National Motorcycle Museum autojumble in the 1980s, the cycle parts being obtained separately. Sadly, Peter Green passed away before its reconstruction could be finished. The machine is offered in need of completion and sold strictly as viewed

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Re: war time triumph twins

Well done on that info Rob. So own up! Who's got them?
At least there is one surviving example to copy, at Beaulieu.
This picture from 1939 seems to show the iron barrel fitted? Ron

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Photobucket

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: war time triumph twins

It sold for £3000 (£3450 with premium) acording to this page.

http://www.motorbase.com/auctionlot/by-id/254540114

Rob

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Re: war time triumph twins

The price of a rare piece of history Rob. I wonder if the owner will build a replica with it or keep it as an ornament?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: war time triumph twins

The head and barrel mentioned in the article as 'possibly being from the bike campaigned by Jim Alves' wasn't from that source...a friend of mine owned that particular works bike and it was complete and original. A fact confirmed by Jim while he was still alive (he retired to the West Country).
I have heard rumours before of another 3TW apart from the one at Beaulieu. Replicating one would be quite a job I would think as there are no spares and the frame and no doubt other parts were particular to that bike. Though anything can be done with enough determination and the resources.
My brother in law bought a another prototype Triumph engine from the same auction in the eighties...a 200cc two stroke single..competition for the Bantam perhaps?
He fitted it into a Cub frame but didn't finish the project, selling it on to Sammy Miller.
Despite giving Sammy all the details of its history by the time it went on display in S Ms museum the story was Triumph had fitted it into the Cub frame themselves for road testing..
History can be amazingly flexible... ..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: war time triumph twins

It is possible the first engine was an early prototype of the 3TW...The 3TW didn't have the alternator in the timing chest though, but on the primary drive side. The second, late wartime engine was probably also a prototype..but most likely of the post war 3T which was introduced soon after. Possibly niether engine had any direct connection with the 3TW..It is not proven, for example, that the all alloy BSA B29/B30 was an intrinsic part of the WB30 project. There is every possibility that it was intended as a potential replacement for the M24 Gold Star and that the WB30 was a further (opportunistic) developement of it. The fact the Triumph engines were similar doesn't conclusively prove a connection with the 3TW...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: war time triumph twins

What I've heard/read about the Triumph at Beaulieu, is that it was assembled from parts after the war from salvaged pieces after the Coventry bombing, so it could turn out not be 100% accurate.

Which model is this one?



Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Re: war time triumph twins

You could be right Lex. I have also heard that at least one complete 3TW was saved from the bombing, as it was ridden home that night by a tester. Also that a few were assembled from remaining parts.
The flying Triumph is indeed a 3TW. Note it has the funny little direct lighting headlamp that seemed to be flavour of the month at that time. Ron


Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: war time triumph twins

That's interesting Lex...the photo is one of a series of tests of the 3TW at a DR Training center in the Lake District. The first photo in this thread is one of the series also..However, they do not show the same bike..one has pannier frames and a C Number and one does not. Also the picture of the bike in 'mid flight' looks like it might have an alternator on the timing side..it's hard to be sure, whereas the photo showing the drive side of a 3TW clearly shows the 'lump' in the primary chaincase that houses it. Could there have been more than one version?
The figure on the right in the photo (with the flat cap and goggles) is Graham Walker..the then Editor of the 'Motorcycle Weekly' magazine. I have a photo of him riding a prototype BSA B30. The officer on the right just visible in the first photo was a 'big wheel' in Army motorcycle circles and was also involved in procurement, but for the life of me I can't remember his name...anyone know who it is?
Most of the riders are wearing the rather nice one piece Barbour trials suit which was rejected after tests in favour of the 'normal' DR kit...hard to see why....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: war time triumph twins

I have looked a little deeper and there were indeed two versions...The earlier one had the alternator in the timing case but this was moved to the primary chaincases on later examples.
Very early versions also had the alloy barrel, though this was quickly replaced. So it seems one of the engines in the initial posting may be a very early, all alloy 3TW prototype...super rare!!...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: war time triumph twins

Well, I can't really see it on the original either



Have many pictures of these bikes, still waiting to be scanned.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbike.net

Re: war time triumph twins

Here is a picture that Ian found (ignore the 3HW on the left) It's the N/S of a 3TW with the alternator on the timing side. Ron

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email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

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