I think of making patterns for casting cylinder heads, foot rests, even cylinders....
email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl
We have a machine that produces items in plastic, with moving parts.
Builds it up with resin, like the printer in the video.
But actually deposits a line of a resin mix very finely, building up line by line.
It is links computers and engineering.
We have a couple in the University where I work.
It looks slightly different technology to the video. But The one in the Uni does work.
No good for heat resistance or replacing metal items, does not have the strength.
Paul C
You can find the company if you google 'Z Corporation'.
I know someone that works at Jaguar Cars and they now do all their prototype modelling, casting patterns and vehicle modelling using a similar technique...they have even modelled complete engines and a full size Ford Transit van!. As far as the technology involved is concerned it is well beyond what I can understand and basically falls into the 'black magic' category...much like a lot of other modern gadgets
....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
I've said it a few times before, and will say it again.
Within this group we have a lot of very smart people with incredible talent.
I'm a manufacturing engineer, model in Solidworks, draw in Autocad. Some of us are working in industry where there is some nice machinery. All of us have contacts somewhere.
Is there any reason that we, as a group cannot pool our talents and take care of our own "rare" parts?
I'm personally tired of hearing about the crap parts from India. Don't we know any better?
If we truely want to take care of our bikes, it's time to take the matter in our own hands.
I'll start by offering my services as a designer/manufacturing engineer as I have already drawn many of the parts as an exercise to keep my skills sharp. I have contacts in a metalurgy/test lab to help analyze materials. I also have a buddy with a Laser cutting service, and another is a plater. (not cadmium)
Come on guys, what say you?
email (option): britool51@hotmail.com
a whole bsa m20 might have to be made in bits i assume they would be able to up or down size it for 1 on the mantle shelf
I too believe the future of this hobby is in reproduction parts, the supply of originals is simply not sufficient.However, that future is far from guaranteed.
The first stage of this process is to define the specifications of the selected part and then draw it up to provide a 'working drawing.'
Using the computer this can be done relatively easily and cheaply...a whole M20 could be drawn up at no actual cost if there is access to an existing programme and as Robb has done, the time involved is not factored in.(though as a commercial exercise the costs of this time would have to be factored in.. or sufficient resources made available to 'write off' the cost to developement.)
From that point onwards though the complications and costs multiply rapidly. Many things can be reproduced these days in quantities that are workable (all M20 parts are fairly low volume sellers..) I have produced various components myself over the years and the problems are always the same.. 1)How do you produce a good quality component in low volumes at a price that the market will stand. Finding suitable manufacturers that fulfill these criteria is not easy.
2)How do you assess the actual demand (volume) for a proposed component. It is not always viable to 'sell up front' everything you have made.
3)How many times can you repeat this process if the components are slow moving and you are putting too high a percentage 'into stock'..these represent 'dead' or 'static' resources (money)...at least until you reach a 'payback point'
These observations are not at all negative..they just highlight some of the practical problems and the inescapable fact that at some point someones money is required to turn intent into product.(as well as a lot of background developement and organisation).At that point a severe reality check happens....
I am currently developing a new product that has so far just COST me money and time and will cost me some more before it is ready to appear on the market.
At that point I will find out whether my assessment of the demand was correct, my pricing is correct and whether that investment will MAKE me some money. At any point in that process if I come up against something that incurrs a cost I think the marketplace is not likely to stand I have to be prepared to cut my losses and walk away.
I have learnt the hard way that what people say they want and how much they are prepared to pay for it doesn't necessarily work out when the part is actually made available and you take a chance every time you do it.
Given the resources and determination a whole range of parts could be remanufactured but that doesn't mean they will sell, either quickly or at the required return on the investment. In practice, I have found, only a limited number components can meet all the commercial imperatives.
Of course this is the way business works..'speculate to accumulate' as they say...but that isn't half as straight forward as it sounds...and it's why the marketplace isn't full of top quality replica parts at very reasonable prices...or even high prices ..Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
hi, well put ian ,absolutely spot on. now ,back to maxwells observations,look at the original wrench in the video, look at the thumb screw,exactly as you would expect to see on a mover,about 4 threads to the inch.now look at the red thumb screw, it's about 2 threads to the inch ,definitely not a copy,my first thoughts when i saw this process was to send some girder fork castings for evaluation, but i think its back to the drawing board, or a decent pattern maker.dissapointed rick
email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com
Yes, the teeth of the worm gear are much thicker than those on the original..either they have altered them to improve strength at the computer modelling stage (indicating a weakness of the material) or they aren't telling us everything. The other parts of the wrench look to be actual size, so for a casting pattern the process would be ok as strength is not such an issue. The ability to alter the overall dimensions would allow for contraction rates/ machining allowances to be applied..Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Also I don't get the scanning process..a 3 dimensional scan would be required to replicate all dimensions. The spindles of the worm gear and the sliding parts of the moving jaw etc. are concealed within the body of the wrench...how are they scanned?
The wrench is also a fairly simple component...some of the samples shown are far more complicated..how for instance are they scanning the internal surfaces and components of a cylinder head? I would have thought the parts were individually made and then assembled but he specifically states with the 'rotating gear assembly' that it was produced in one piece. ....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Hi Ian,
For hobby stuff like this, I figure a penny an hour is about the going rate!
email (option): britool51@hotmail.com
Hi Robb..I probably have a different perspective to many forum contributors as for me it isn't just a hobby and a penny an hour doesn't pay the bills ....
Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
One of my other hobby's (unfortunately now a bit on the back-burner) is re-creating the "American Long Rifle", aka the Kentucky.
The parts for the flint- and caplocks used to build those rifles are wax-cast in steel, even the V-springs are cast, and seem to have eternal life! A set of castings to finish yourself cost anything between $ 80 and $ 150, relatively modest considering the complexity of the parts, and the work involved in making the wax pattern, preparing the ceramic cast, heating and finally casting the steel. The cost of the steel itself must be relatively small; so I think that instead of wax casting, sand-casting a cylinder head using a pattern made by this 3-D scanning method (taking into account the shrinkage) should be less expensive.
Now, what's the cost nowadays of a NOS cylinder head, IF you can find one
email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl
hi,somewhere in their data i saw a figure of $20.00 us per cubic centmetre,would work out expensive on a larger component.cheers rick
email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com
Cost of a new cylinder head?...Pattern cost divided by the batch number of components + casting and fettling costs (per piece)+ machining jig costs divided by the batch number of components + machining costs (per piece) + transport costs divided by the batch number of components + profit (per piece if carried out commercially) + postage to destination (per piece)...They won't be cheap.. .
I have said previously that we are living in a 'fools paradise' with regard to the cost of components.
Many NOS parts are sold at a price that is completely unrelated to thier actual cost. That cost was met by the tax payer a long time ago.They are now sold for what the market will stand..For example..from Russell Motors...(who bought all thier stock as 'surplus' at well below actual cost)
Gearbox mainshaft £75.00
Clutch sleeve £38.00
Cylinder head £45.00 (I think they sold the last of them last year..I am about to fit one to an engine)
There is no chance of making those at anything like that price today without the economies of volume production.
I know from experience that if faced with a good quality new part that is considered too expensive (and that is an arbitary judgement based on the frequently ill informed views of the individual) people choose not to buy but to wait in the hope of finding a good original.
The truth is there is a huge amount of 'downward' pressure on prices from the buying public...I have failed to make a sale on numerous items after quoting an entirely reasonable price and it can only be because the potential purchaser doesn't see it that way.
There seems to be frequent (casual) talk about producing new parts...how many times for instance has the subject of new cylinder heads been raised?.. But there are still no new cylinder heads.
Why is that?...It's because when you get down to it and actually work through the costings they are still not viable.
I did this about 4 years ago and found there was virtually no positive response to the availability of a new cylinder head at the proposed price...
The fact is old ones are repairable and there is still a chance of turning up a good original...so why spend all that money on a new one? I even had people tell me they would rather keep their damaged original...from my point of view as a producer the curse of 'patina' and the obsession with originality!!
It's a shame but that is the way it will remain for many proposed repro parts until the supply of originals is completely exhausted and the market has faced up fully to todays production costs...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
As I suspected this technology is probably best used in its current form for the manufacture of casting patterns and other components that do not require a high strength. It is unfortunate that both National Geographic and the presenter..a physicist, were both complicit in producing a piece which they knew at the end of the day was totally misleading but presented as truth...It just goes to prove they never landed on the moon, there was a third man on the grassy knoll and they haven't told us about the comet that is about to hit earth....God help us if the Indians saw the original piece and are at this moment producing 3D scanned girder forks.... ...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com