This a long document, but it is worth reading.
It fills me with alarm for the future of old bikes and cars.
Parts of it relate to problems some of us are having


http://www.realclassic.co.uk/techfiles/bioethanol_fuel_study.pdf

email (option): gasboy@btinternet .com

For years now the government has tried unsuccessfully to legislate old vehicles off the road. This seems to be a back handed method to finally do it.
Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

I remember the hysteria around the introduction of lead free fuel...all our valves and seats were going to disappear and our engines wouldn't run properly. That didn't happen, however.
As of today we have 5% etnanol in our fuel and as far as I am concerned the only problem so far is the failure of older tank sealants..a problem that has already been addressed.
My view is there isn't a problem until a problem occurs and the best attitude is to look at any problems when and if they occur to try and find a solution, rather than getting over excited in advance...after all, how many times has the end of the world been predicted?
However illogical these changes may be nothing can be done to stop them it seems, so just wait for the change and then see what actually happens.
In America they have had higher levels of ethanol for some time and it seems there are plenty of old British bikes, Harley Davidsons,Indians and old cars still running..would any of our American forum members have a comment to make on the subject?....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

for what i have read the main problems with ethonol is atracting water which will cause corrosion in alloy carbs some rubber seals maybe effected and of cause the older tank sealers the tank sealer maybe a pain especialy if you just done it with old sealer does adding oil or diesel help the MG owners club do an additive

It is worth reading this document to its end. I am quite encouraged by the findings and the extensive testing carried out. They have even been in discussions with Amal carburettors. Here are some exerts to put our minds at rest:

'It is widely accepted that vehicles ten years old and older will not be compatible with E10 blends, though of course there will be exceptions to this. There are approximately nine million petrol passenger cars and light duty petrol vehicles in the UK that are ten years old or older, this equates to about 38% of the total petrol vehicle parc [116]. In addition to these vehicles there are thousands of relatively new first generation petrol direct injection vehicles in the UK, the last new vehicle probably being sold in 2007, that are not compatible with E10.
The average age for a petrol passenger car at the end of life is 13.13 years while that of a petrol light commercial vehicle is 15.09 years [117]. This essentially means that approximately half these vehicles will still be in use in 2013 when the proposed phase out of petrol blends containing 5 % of ethanol occurs.
It is reported that the majority of carburettored vehicles (passenger cars, light duty commercial vehicles and powered two wheelers) will not be compatible with E10. Again there will be exceptions to this. However at least 1500 new carburettored powered two wheelers are imported into the UK per annum. According to the

Table 4 Potential vehicle problems and costs of prevention/repair with the introduction of E10
The situation regarding historical and vintage vehicles (i.e. vehicles registered before 1973) should be mentioned. There are nearly half a million pre 1973 vehicles in the country. The related activity is worth over £3 billion to the UK annually with the export trade being worth over £300 million. Over 27000 people in the UK earn some or all of their living serving the historical vehicle movement [166]. Owners of these vehicles are reporting significant problems with E5 blends.

These include material compatibility and drivability issues. To maintain the originality of the vehicle it is not desirable to replace original incompatible parts with new compatible parts, nor is it always possible. Unfortunately the introduction of ethanol into petrol is more problematical for these vehicles than the phase out of leaded petrol. The lead could be replaced by a fuel additive. The ethanol is a component in the fuel and its effects can only be partially negated by the use of fuel additives, for example corrosion inhibitors.
To maintain this valuable business and asset consideration should be given to providing after market corrosion inhibiting fuel additives and preserving a specification for a zero ethanol grade petrol.

6 Conclusions
6.1 Fuel System compatibility
6.1.1 Vehicle problems resulting from the introduction of E10
Based on the experience of other markets where E10 has been introduced it is estimated that the majority of vehicles ten years old or older will not be compatible with E10 due to fuel system material incompatibility issues.
Field experience, vehicle trials and laboratory testing have demonstrated carburettor vehicles and powered two wheelers will suffer problems due to material incompatibility, corrosion and drivability problems.
Field experience has demonstrated first generation spark ignition direct injection vehicles are not compatible with E10 due to fuel system material incompatibility issues.
Field experience has demonstrated that vehicles and petrol fuelled equipment fitted with glass fibre fuel tanks may suffer catastrophic failure due to the incompatibility of the glass fibre resin with petrol ethanol blends. In addition to vehicles considered here, this could affect other applications not directly considered by this report, such as lawn mowers and pleasure craft.
Some documents do exist that have limited lists of vehicles compatible with E10 but if doubt exists the vehicle operator should contact the vehicle manufacturer for clarification.
Fuel filter blockage and reduced life of exhaust gas after treatment systems, the latter due to enleanment causing increased exhaust gas temperature, may be issues but this cannot be determined from the information gathered during this project. Vehicle trials and engine tests will be necessary to clarify the situation.
6.2 Carburettor icing
The findings of this study suggest the introduction of E10 will not result in a fuel that is more susceptible to causing carburettor icing.
6.3 Number of vehicles affected
Based on vehicle age, approximately 8.6 million vehicles will be unable to run on E10. Additionally some thousands of relatively new first generation SIDI vehicles and powered two wheelers will be unable to run on E10. A more exact estimation is not possible based on information available.
Based on an average vehicle life of 13 years very approximately half these vehicles will still be in use when the proposed phase out of E5 takes place in 2013.

Recommendations
Vehicles ten years old or older, carburettored vehicles (including powered two wheelers) and first generation direct injection spark ignition vehicles should not be fuelled on E10 unless the manufacturer can state the vehicles are compatible with E10.
The automotive industry should produce a comprehensive list of vehicles compatible with E10. While it is acknowledged that some lists do already exist if in doubt the vehicle operator should seek clarification from the vehicle manufacturer.
E5 should not be phased out in 2013, its widespread availability should continue for the foreseeable future.
Consideration should be given to maintaining a specification for E0 fuel for historic
and vintage vehicles. '

France already has E10..but supplied alongside fuel with a lower content. I heard recently Germany has delayed introduction of E10 while further research is carried out.
I wouldn't hold out too much hope for an E0 supply for classic vehicles in the UK...tried to buy any 4 star lately?
From the petrol companies point of view it's about the bottom line and maintaining an E0 supply won't be financially viable due to low demand..if only classic vehicles were used a bit more...
If legislation demands the companies maintain such a supply expect a patchy level of supply and a high price at the pump.
....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I agree with Ian, that Ethanol is the new "Unleaded " scare that the aftermarket industry needs to make money....the additives are now being widely pedalled in the Classic bike mags.
I have WW2 tech. publications covering Matchless and Willys Jeep engines that warn about the perils of using Leaded petrol !! think of the fortune spent on unleaded additives and valve seat upgrades that were never needed.
I understand that the 97 Super Unleaded fuels dont have Ethanol..so thats one option.
In the meantime keep calm and carry on !

email (option): edd@abbottracing.com

Hi Ed..I've seen 'ethanol proof' petrol taps as well..odd really as most people are already running on E5 with their existing taps and E10 is not even due for another two years. The addatives advertised and purchased today are therefore unecessary if used and if kept till then will probably be past their 'use by' date when E10 is actually introduced...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

An interesting comment buried in this report was that the use of 5% ethanol additives was not currently universal. It varies with producer. Some have a lot less. This may explain why some people do and some do not have problems. I wonder how much is in Tesco Petrol (one of the bigger retailers here on the IOW)
Paul

I buy my petrol from various suppliers (I have no preferences) and in different areas when I am travelling around...I must have used a fair bit of the stuff. Happily I haven't experienced any discernable problems so far with the M20.(or Harley)...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I agree Ian. It's much ado about nothing if you don't use tank sealants which i never have or will. If you have a leak solder it. Anyway ethanol production probably won't be practical soon considering that it's replacing so much food production!

I'm concerned by it. Particularly the drivability issues. Fuel with ethanol and its aditives is not consistent. Because of its short storage life (three weeks or so), it is mixed at the last minute by adding to the tanker load. We can be pretty sure that the average tanker driver at 3.30 in the morning doesn't give a damn how well it mixes. He just wants to get on the road.

Tests in the US have showed between 0% and 20% for fuel that should have been 5%. The difference between fill-ups here in Belgium (where 'Trading Standards' varies from piss-potical to non-existent) is considerable and it's getting worse at the moment. My 16H is flying after its last fill-up on 'Q8' but a couple of gallons of Total are guaranteed to get it popping and banging and farting.

Our unlined steel tanks are also at risk as the water separation will cause rusting if allowed to sit more than a few weeks.

The best hope is that the environmentalists will repent due to the adverse effects of growing all that maize (I always hated 'Green Giant' anyway. )

As far as I'm concerned, ethanol ranks with all those other wonderful US exports such as Coca-Cola, McDonalds and spray can graffiti.

I could do to lose a few pounds..maybe ethanol is a good idea after all!! ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I'm in the U.S and have been running 10 percent ethanol for quite some time. There has finally been some news published that it takes more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than it produces.

I'm currently using Stron additive which has been mentioned here before. I also know from a friend in the business that the old two-stroke bikes running premix have no tank rust problems. Consequently I add a very small amount of premix oil. Ethanol will rust a tank pretty quickly in a very humid area and I have lined both my tanks. I let the bike idle with the fuel petcock closed to drain the carb as much as possible before storage.

I have not had any performance problems with the 10 percent fuel. I never use any other so-called fuel additives as they are mostly more alcohol.

An engine running on straight methanol and a little castor oil smells great, runs great and does have a little frost on the intake manifold after a race.

email (option): jrosson86@att.net

Those of us over 50, will remember "Cleveland Discol" petrol widely avaiable in the UK and possibly U.S. in the 50/60,s which was about 10% Alcohol/Ethanol....don,t think this was perceived as a problem at the time...also i seem to remember reading that a lot of automotive gaskets for the war effort were made from Ethanol....

email (option): edd@abbottracing.com

As I understand it, the problem lies more with the additive package than the ethanol. Becuse it's such crap fuel, they have to perk it up with a chemical cocktail. Based on the smell test, my guess is gun-wash.

I think there is a lot that we're not being told.

As I see it the first problems are very real in that ethonol has disolved fiberglass petrol tanks, and liners for steel tanks.

Paragraph 3.3 deals with gavanic corrosion-- corrosion between disimlar metals. In the heating/hot water industry corrosion is a very real problem-- to the extent that sacrificial anodes are used. These anodes, made of aluminium or magnesium are quickly eroded by very small electrical currents in the water, which acts as an ectrolite. Ethonol fuel is already a better conductor than neat hydrocarbon fuel, and will only be a better conductor/electrolite when that ethonol has absorbed water, which it can do from air while standing unused.
Zinc alloys have caused awful corrosion problems in industry, and I think I am right in thinking that Amal carburettors are a zinc/aluminium alloy (correct me if I am wrong).

Then paragraph 3.1.3, they say ethonol is oxygen rich which can cause weak mixture problems/overheating in the exaust tract-- not deseriable on an already hot sidevalve engine exaust valve. Hopefully though, we can adjust carbs to compensate for this.
But that extra oxygen has another trick up its sleeve--- what does corrosion/rust need? Answer-- oxygen!
Rust is ferric oxide--the iron is in the steel of our tanks, and the oxygen is chemicaly bonded in the fuel.

Amal/SU said they have already seen corrosion at the brass/carb body interface

It looks to me as if our bikes which from steel petrol tank to brass carb jets in zinc/aluminium alloy carb bodies have many dissimlar metals, are going to have petrol put in them where the blended ratio of ethonol is not accuratly moniterd. That petrol with ethanol can absorb moisture/water from air, is a conductor, and has more oxygen molocules, which sounds to me like a receipe for corrosion right the way through.

As Ian said, we can only wait and see, but I think there is trouble ahead

email (option): gasboy@btinternet .com

Ian, have you ridden your Harley over winter? I used to have to take the Harley demo bikes home to put a few miles on them before the customers got their hands on them. On any damp freezing morning NONE of the Harleys made it into work under their own steam they all had to be recovered (my work mate and one of the salesmen took them home too) The worst offenders were the stage one fitted bikes, they had less filtration on the air filter and they tended to ice up at the most inopportune moment (lane 3 on the motorway) I notice now that since the 5% etanol the problem on my own bike is worse, so I guess that when 10% is introduced it would be even worse. The main issue is that carb icing on a bike in the outside lane of the motorway is potentially dangerous, I wonder if they have factored in any potential deaths due solely to the fuel? I belive that the newer fuel injected harleys suffer from this too and I think they are designed to run 10% ethanol!

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Hi Dave..Yes, I ran the Sportster right through the winter. Mine has been rejetted but still runs the standard CV carb and a standard filter assembly. (though I have just bought a smaller replacement assembly).
Perhaps this is more common with the larger models? I didn't experience any problems with icing of the carb...the only problem I had with the icy conditions was falling off.. ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

On the other hand they haven't got any motorways where I live..there aren't even that many straight roads ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Peter, interesting points about galvanic corosion.
Most Amal carburettors are a zinc alloy casting, the exception, I have heard, being the Mk2 Concentric.
Nylon float chambers and float chamber needles are already in use and I would imagine Amal are busy investigating alternative materials, possibly non metallic, for jets and other fittings to mitigate this problem...it's that or go out of business and a solution to the problem if it IS as bad as implied would be a real money spinner for them.. There is a materials solution to this problem...there must be or modern vehicles wouldn't run on ethanol either.
Corrosion in steel petrol tanks can be eliminated by the use of a suitable tank liner...not perhaps the most desirable solution but again, also applied to modern vehicles I would have thought unless the tank material has been changed.
I also wonder about the fact this fuel becomes unstable after only three weeks..as has been suggested in some quarters. That implies that it cannot be used beyond that point. Does this mean modern cars will be taking repeated trips to the garage to have the fuel system emptied out, or that garages that don't empty their petrol pump tanks within that time scale will have to do the same?...that situation hardly seems credible.
E5 doesn't seem to suffer from this problem...I have left my bike for far longer with current ethanol levels and it has run perfectly well when needed.
Is another 5% going to make such a marked difference to the fuels useable lifespan?..I doubt that.
Joe Rossons posting states he has not had performance problems with E10...and these are the observations of a forum member who is actually using the product, so horror stories on that subject also appear to be something of a 'red herring'.
I may be proved wrong but at the moment I get the impression there is general panic at the prospect and virtually any negative story will be believed without question (and probably exagerated)...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I don't buy the 3 week life claim. E10 is mandated here in the states. Between March and October or later my car usually doesn't get filled up because I ride two wheels or, if it gets fresh fuel, it's only one partial fillup. Yet no problems, even if the fuel is 4 or 5 months old. Same with my bike, maybe two tankfuls in several months of winter. No problem.

As for the sky falling because of ethanol, I agree that the end of the world has been predicted many times before and is now again. Even if there turns out to be a problem, I have confidence in the marketplace: some enterprising person will come up with some sort of additive to cure it.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

I believe the rust problem started long before ethanol was added, but when the tetraethyl lead was removed and replaced with benzene to increase octane. I think benzene was a pre-war fuel additive for Mercedes and Auto Union Gran Prix cars. So have we progressed or what?

As far as the three week life, I just started my 1974 Honda enduro bike which had its tank lined last November, then filled with gas and additives "Stron" and a dollop of "Blendzall". It had been sitting in a hot/humid garage since November and last Sunday it started on the third kick and ran great.

email (option): jrosson86@att.net

Thanks for the 'American view' where you are able to talk from practical experience of E10. How long have you had E10 and do you have any comments regarding corrosion of steel or other materials, particularly fuel line and carburettor components?. Also are you running with or without corrosion inhibitor additives?..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Ian, The only corrosion I've found was a spot at the bottom of both bike's float bowls around the brass/pot- metal junction. I have not been been using the "Stron" and "Blendzall" additives long enough to know of any changes.

I do use the top ten fuel suppliers (Chevron, Shell etc.) who supply additives for fuel injection and clean burn. I wonder what the differences in fuel blends are between here(Texas) and Great Britain.

We have been on 10 percent ethanol for about 3 years. Other states have been using it much longer.

email (option): jrosson86@att.net

Thanks Joe...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

In "downstate" New York (NYC and surrounding areas) E10 has been almost universal since 2005. Some "upstate" counties have the right to and have "opted out" of E10, although it is almost universal there, too, probably because the oil companies don't want the extra headache of making more types than they need to. The "transition" was such that no one noticed.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

I have just got back from a Norton rally in Catskill NY state. I had shipped my Commando out there, then flew out to pick it up and headed north.
I filled it up at the first gas station I came to, with 10% ethonol.
Within 5 miles my speedo cable had broken, and within 100 miles my crankcase breather hose had split.
Both had been problem free for the last 35 years--- so thats proof enough for me

email (option): gasboy@btinternet .com

I know what you mean Peter, the year they introduced E5 I got punctures in BOTH my M20s.. ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com