Hello,

My grandfather spent WW2 as a despatch rider on M20s and I am currently researching his service record. He was in 60 Heavy Anti Aircraft Regiment RA with the BEF in France (and left one of his bikes on the beach at Dunkirk). He was later with 80 Heavy Anti Aircraft Regiment in North Africa and Italy. Does anybody know what markings his bikes would have carried - so I can paint the correct ones on my own WM20?

Tom

I have quite a few photo's of bike left behind but non of them show much detail. Your question is for one of the experts on this matter I guess.

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Tom, is it the BEF period or later that you're intending to portray ? Is the bike in 1940 trim ?

60 Anti Aircraft Regiment were GHQ troops and displayed the number '42' on a red / blue background divided vertically (as was usual for A/A units during the early part of the war), with the GHQ white bar under.

This would probably have been diplayed only on the rear number plate and perhaps the front mudguard.

I don't have much info on the Middle East but 80 HAA whilst in the UK were part of 5th AA Division during 1941 and responsible for air defence of Portsmouth and Southampton as part of 1st AA Corps.

The formation sign for 5th AA Division was a black aircraft, nose down, with red flames on a khkai background.

During the 1941 period, it could have been displayed on the fuel tank along with an RA Arm of Service number.

If you're thinking of this period of UK service then I might have some AoS details for these units.

I have no trace of 80 HAA in the Middle East which isn't surprising as pinning down units at higher command level there is a bit specialist. Have you obtained his Service records ?

Thanks a lot for the pictures and info - It was very useful.

I now have his service records and I'm currently trying to find out some more about the units he served with, as this will enable me to put his personal stories about riding BSAs into the bigger picture. He was with 60 HAA until mid 1942 when he transfered to 80 HAA before taking part in the 1st Army invasion of North Africa.

I don't know anything about the history of my bike but I think it is quite a late one - WM20 122639 - so probably not 1940 spec. Also, as it's currently painted desert sand, I think I'll try and go for the North African period - if I can find the information.

Tom

Tom, that additional information is most useful and has enabled me to find 80 HAA listed as 1st Army GHQ troops for Operation Torch in Hodges & Taylor's markings 'bible'.

As you probably know, the 1st Army formation sign was a red cross on a white shield with a sword superimposed. If orders were followed then it would seem that formation signs were not displayed on motorcycles after 1941. However, if the machine is a 'tribute' rather than a rivet-counter's obsession then they do finish things off nicely.

The 'Arm of Service' marking for 80 HAA effective 31 December 1942 was the number '276' on the red over blue horizontally divided RA colours.

Royal Artillery tactical and battery markings are a complex subject and I'm not sure that they would have been used on motorcycles. If you do trace your father's battery then a 'B' or 'C' or whatevever might be appropriate, on the leading edge of the front mudguard for instance.

Thanks for the information Rik, it was all new to me, and I've now got enough to come up with some markings.

Tom

Hi Tom..If you know of a traditional signwriter they can supply the correct colours for the markings. Many bikes were signwritten by Army signwriters and they used a range of standard colours..ie 'signwriters blue'etc. My signwriter used these colours on a RA marked BSA B29 and they looked just right.
Note that the signwriters white is not pure white but a slightly 'off white'...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com