I'm trying to recommission my bike after 4-5 months off the road. After the brake torque arm came adrift last year (sloppy maintenance no doubt), the mudguard stays were badly damaged.

I've managed to straighten most of them; they're not perfect, but reasonably acceptable until I can sort out what really needs replacing. There are a couple of questions arising from this.

1. Does anyone have any metalurgical knowledge of the steel used for these items? I was surprised to find how malleable everything was. Didn't feel like mild steel (and I've got some experience of working with mild steel from various projects). So is this steel different/special? I should point out that these components are 15-20 years old (at least) and therefore probably genuine BSA. The steel looks almost, but not quite, galvanised. It straightened without much creasing, and seems fairly hard on the surface (unlike mild steel which indents easily). I might be making too much of this, but the steel is definitely different. Any thoughts?

2. There's a small stud on the left hand side to which all the mudguard stays/lifting handle are anchored (it's just above and slightly forward of the spindle - I think). Anyway, this stud is bent and needs replacing. But how is that stud fixed? Is it just screwed in? Or is there something else to watch here?

3. I need the torque arm-to-brake plate securing bolt, nut and all the associated spacers/washers. Does anyone have any (or ideally all) of these items?

4. I'm not sure of the proper sequence for locating the mudguard stays. I've got pictures of how it originally was, but would like to check which stay goes where. It's looks fairly straightforward, but I want to be sure.

5. Also, there are some spacers (related to the mudguard stays) that I need to sort out. I don't know the correct order. So is there a clear diagram around somewhere showing the order and purpose of each spacer?

6. Lastly, the rearmost chainguard stay was bent. I've straightened it, but it's slighty detached at the top. Were these stays brazed on? Or spot welded? I'm looking for a suitable fix.

Any advice welcome. Thanks.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Hi Danny,

Answers in order to your questions:

1- Mild steel tube was used. Remember, there was a war on. I put mine on a hardness tester at work, and it barely registered on the Rockwell C scale.

2- On one frame, it is like a small very flat head bolt/rivet. On another, it is a legit stud, BSCY on both ends.

3- Originally, they used a castelated nut with a split pin. I failed to do that, and mine broke loose like yours did. Tweaked the frame big time! Do you REALLY need to stay with CEI threads on this?

4- I believe the upright stay goes first, then lifting handle, then horizontal stay. That way, you can get at the rear fender tailpiece if you have to.

5- What spacers? I have not seen any listed in the parts book.

6- The horizontal stay is made up of a tube, with a thin sheet metal whatever over the business end that delaminates. Braze all together whilst clamping it tight.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

Robb

email (option): britool51@hotmail.com

Thanks, Rob. That helps clarify things. But I don't understand what you mean about "Do you REALLY need to stay with CEI threads on this?"

I want the correct brake torque arm bolt arrangement with the castellated nut and split pin or whatever. At least, I think I do. But is there another approved/sensible way to secure it?

It looks like I second-guess BSA before and am now paying for it. Would want to mistake that mistake twice (gave me hell of a fright when the rear wheel suddenly locked.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Hi Danny..You'll be needing a 'phsyco thread' bolt for the rear brake torque arm unless you are planning to change the thread in the torque arm itself.
The bolt should pass through the brake plate, screw through the arm until tight and then have a locknut fitted on the back with a split pin. I should think it is quite possible Russells have all the original parts...Ian

Thanks Ian. I don't suppose you've got any insight on the steel used for the mudguard stays? Rob has said that it was almost certainly mild steel. WW2, etc. Which make sense. But I thought I'd have a much harder time straightening things, and the steel felt different - and hasn't developed any surface rust in the few months in which it's been awaiting attention.

Maybe there's just a very good primer under the cellulose paint (that flaked off). And maybe I just don't know my own strength. A few people advised me that straightening the tubing wouldn't really be possible (one piece looked like a treble clef). But although the stays are showing some damage, they're pretty much all serviceable - assuming I can take the twist out of one.

I don't mind a few road scars. So maybe I ought to forget to tighten a few more bolts and speed things up.

P.S. I didn't understand the "phsyco thread" comment. What did you mean? Did I miss a joke there?

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Thanks, Rik (I miss a lot of Ian's subtleties).

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

The mudguard stays are mild steel...quite what mix they used during the war is anybodies guess as they had to reuse scrap metal wherever possible and the good stuff went for Spitfires!...They could have been made from melted down pre war Nortons or Brough Superiors ...Ian

Ian, I think you're right. The stays were sort of hard on the outside, but pretty soft in the middle - and weren't half as rigid as they appeared.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Sorry, Rik. Forgot you were online.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Actually I was born within earshot of Meriden...so does that mean I should ride a Triumph?...or is it why I can hear a pre unit Trumpets tappets at 1/2 a mile? ...Ian

Hey Ian,

Can you get Russels to answer the phone, answer their email or respond to a letter? Do you live lose enough to drop by and collect a few things for me?

Cheers

email (option): britool51@hotmail.com

Hi Robb...I'm about 240 miles from Russell Motors..it's not much further to your house ...Ian

Ian Wright

The mudguard stays are mild steel...quite what mix they used during the war is anybodies guess as they had to reuse scrap metal wherever possible and the good stuff went for Spitfires!...They could have been made from melted down pre war Nortons or Brough Superiors ...Ian

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

metal alters with age this maybe why it seems strange

Resurrecting an old thread here, but another puzzler, is there a correct order of the stays at the rear?
I have to put on the stud:
1 Chainguard bracket
1 upright stay
1 rear fender loop/lifting handle
1 rear stay to mudguard bracket
1 pannier support bracket
and 1 field stand clip bracket.
Does this seem right? Or should I have them in a different order, maybe
the rear loop goes second?
Thanks, Vince

rob, if you need stuff from russels, its best to fax les; he doesnt do t'internet, hates the phone...
the nearest gang member is jon o'b i think ? but if you're stuck, happy to get them posted to me and send them onwards ?

atb, chris

email (option): chris.astinbarker@btinternet.com

I am building my WM20 from a pair of crankcases and a pile of separately-sourced parts. Looking at my rear mudguard stays I have several of varying length. Can anyone give me the on-center length for the rear stays? And the total length for the lift handle loop? Some of mine came with a rigid ZM21 and don't look right at all!

Jeff

email (option): jjbandoo@aol.com

Hi Danny

Sent you a mail

Hope it helps

Jo'b

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com