Hello fellow gearheads.

Being new at this forum,i would like to start with my congratiolations to you all,with this very well functioning site and it's forum.
It has a friendly tone to it alltogether.

Recently i bought myself a '41 Matchy G3L and i am looking for the correct markings on fenders and tank
"as used on Market Garden" and their explanation.

Every info would be very much appreciated .

Ed van den Brink .

p.s Sorry it's no BSA but I liked the "L" in G3L

email (option): mirjam.ed@planet.nl

Hi Ed..I can't help with the info you require, though I'm sure someone will. Nevertheless, welcome to the forum...are you rebuilding the 'Matchbox'?...Ian

Welcome to the forum Ed.

There is a bit in this previous thread about Airborne transfers.

http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3155626639&frmid=16&msgid=1004635&cmd=show

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Well......sort of.
Its an older restoration needing TLC instead of getting mad at.

email (option): mirjam.ed@planet.nl

hi ed i also own a matchless g3l ,would like to see some photos of your project i have just finished restoring mine thanks to mick holmes
cheers michael

email (option): michael.rutland@homail.co.uk

Ed, are you thinking of 'Market' or 'Garden' ? If the latter, then you can choose from much of 2nd Army, XXX Corps and their subsidiary units.

I'd expect a G3L to have been mainly used by RASC outriders.

Bearing in mind that Formation Signs were no longer displayed on motorcycles by this time, perhaps a '54' on red / green with white bar above for Corps Transport Company RASC on each side of the fuel tank, or '407' or '408' with the bar under for 2nd Army transport companies.

Sorry, that would be the "Market"part Rik .
What i do know for a fact is that engineers took Matchy's with them in September44

I have some footage taken by a civilian at Oosterbeek wich unfortionatly do not show the markings clear enough.
Being new at this forum: Are you familiar with this material ?

email (option): mirjam.ed@planet.nl

To be honest Ed, Arnhem is not really my thing. My obsession is with BEF units (the more obscure, the better).

Hodges & Taylor list the following Arm of Service serials for 1 Airborne Division as of March 1944 (Royal Engineers serials were probably displayed on cobalt blue):-

HQ RE - '40'
1 Para Sqn RE - '50'
4 Para Sqn RE - '51'
9 Field Coy RE - '49'
261 Fd Park Coy RE - '48'

Formation signs on motorcycles were discontinued late in 1943, in accordance with Army Council Instructions of October 1943 and therefore, strange as it may seem, there would be nothing on a motorcycle indicating to which division or formation it belonged.

Quote: Formation signs on motorcycles were discontinued late in 1943, in accordance with Army Council Instructions of October 1943 and therefore, strange as it may seem, there would be nothing on a motorcycle indicating to which division or formation it belonged. unquote

Should is more likely than would.
Orders and instructions would come from London War Office to Div, and from Div HQ down to the individual units. MT officers in charge would implement new instructions as they saw fit, eg. Esprit de DCrps more important than this new thing, saving of materials and postpone the implementation to the first occasion when a repaint job was called for, oversight etc.
So I would assume that not all div markings were taken of within a week or so from the ACI's being published.
And with the usual light blue census numbers for Airborne vehicles as a give away to what unit the vehicle belonged to, what use would be the painting over of Bellophoron on his mount?

Rob

email (option): rvanmeel@wanadoo.nl

Rob, I'd love to see a photograph of a motorcycle with a British divisional formation sign in NW Europe, June 1944-on, I really would. They finish the whole plot off and I don't realistically understand how traffic control worked with this essential element missing.

Perhaps they just decided that the bloody motorcyclists went wherever they pleased anyway ?

It could be that in going through the system of preparation for D Day all vehicles were 'correctly' marked and no 'old' markings made it to Europe...Ian

I'm sure Hans said he saw the Polar Bear on bikes when he were a lad? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I was 12 years old then, don't recall on what vehicle I saw the Polar Bear on that day in May (there were Bren carriers, four-wheeled armoured vehicles and bikes), but it struck me as funny; the only white bear I had known until then was my bed companion until age 6 or 7 my TeddyBear

email (option): viaconsu # planet dot nl

Well , I can see by now this is not an easy question .
Best to appear historicly correct at "Race to the Bridge" Oosterbeek with no markings at all.
Till someone proves otherwise.......
Thanks sofar guys!

email (option): mirjam.ed@planet.nl

Of the hundreds of motor cycles flown in at 'Arnhem' in 1944, only a few were caught on photographs. regrettably most are not taken to show us the absence or presence of div markings.
I have seen many a photograph of Polar Bear vehicles taken in April 1945 showing a non standard round polar div sign , usually with a white band around the outside. So despite regulations (would love to see the text or a scan of these ACI's, hint at Rik), this division kept or re-introduced their div sign on their vehicles despite the pre-D-day instructions to remove them.

So for Arnhem:
-census number usually in light blue, on both side sof petrol tank, or only on the off-side to save paint (in accordance with regulations)
-unit serial on either side of the petrol tank, and/or front or rear mudguard.
-div sign: if it appears in any 'Arnhem' photograph on a Jeep or Carrier, or Morris C8-AT, it would to me be plausible to have also been put or kept on some units' motor cycle.
-lubrication instructions
-any other info, sometimes on top of the petro(i)l tank.

email (option): rvanmeel@wanadoo.nl

ah!! rob c number painted on the offside here in the uk or the offside on the continent so that would mean on both sides

Rob, I thought that I had an excerpt saved but I can't find it. It may be that it disappeared with my hard drive last year.

The ACI is certainly referred to in Hodges & Taylor's "British Military Markings 1939 - 1945" .

Rob Miller posted copies of MEF instructions dated March 1944 a while ago (I can't now find it to link to) - Obviously, not the same theatre but the instructions relating to M/Cs are quite categorical.

There is also the implication that references to 'nearside' were always based on the UK norm.