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Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

Hi there,

Aye I know, I read more here on the forum than posting something, and I must say keep up the good work ! But I wonder if you lot can help me.

I had Jan (REWDCO) yesterday on visit and when he saw my collection of tools for the BSA came a question that I never thought about it.
Does the tools have the broad arrow /l on it ??? Mostly the have the BSA logo (the 3 BSA rifles) and the word BSA.
We had a closer look and I have one spanner with the broad arrow on it, so I wonder if you can have a look at your tools then ?
I do have some other spanners with the year and a broad arrow but they are not for the toolbox kit.

So, I would say : get in the shed our for Henk in the livingroom, have look at your spanners, tools for the toolkit and post them.

What do think about it ? Can we make a sticky of it ?

So, rest me only to say : have a Happy New Year and ... be save !

All the best,

The Mad Belgium,
Cris

email (option): 6cdo@skynet.be

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

Hi Cris

You sometimes find spanners in original WD wrapping so they were definitly military but they don't have the stamp.

The only BSA spanners I have found with a broad arrow are 3 of the little combination spanners.

Its possible of coarse that these were issued with military bicycles or charging sets.

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This one isn't very clear but the others are quite well stamped.

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

Hi Rob,
Aye,I have the same one like yours, the combi one.
And indeed some in wrappers also, but no arrow on it.
All the best,
Cris

email (option): 6cdo@skynet.be

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

It would seem Cris that all the machines were supplied with an original manufacturer's toolkit, based on the pre-war civilian type but amended to WD requirements at the time they first went into service and these tools were not government issue and carried no 'WD' markings.

However, there were supplementary lists with extra tools, presumably subsequently found necessary and which also include various amended descriptions of 'generic' tools which would have been supplied from WD stocks to replace lost or damaged originals - these are likely to have been 'WD' marked.

In the case of Nortons, this means that original toolkit tools are often branded 'Shelley' (who actually owned Norton) but have no 'WD' stamp. Shelley also supplied tools under government contract and these can be found with a 'WD' stamp and date but ironically enough, these are unlikely to have come from a Norton toolkit. There's probably a good chance that a similar situation arose with the BSA Group.

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

So Rik, does this mean that Lex's WD stamped Shelly jack for his Big4 is wrong...Thats a shame
Where as my dated but not stamped WD is correct
Ron.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

I was thinking of hand tools Ron. I don't see why tools supplied as part of the original machine would have been WD marked. I've not seen those markings on tools such as the gearbox spanners and wheel nut spanners for example.

I reckon a date is probably wrong as well though !

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

My Shelly jack is dated 1938. I think Lex's is about 1940 (W/|D) and the bloke I bought mine from had another dated 1954. The dates were all done during casting. So it seems a regular occurance with Shelly and their jacks. As you say though Rik, why would Norton or any of the other manufacturers stamp their, supplied with motorcycle standard tool kit with WD? Probably these stamps would have been done by the army/AM themselves. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

Ron, isn't it an Austin 7 jack (or is that a fable ?) 1938 dated would be pushing it a bit for a Big 4 SWD tool. I'd guess that if it's cast in then it's an internal quality control thing, much like the date found in pre- and (very) early war Norton timing chests.

This is a typical tools list. It shows how the 6" adjustable in the manufacturer's toolkit became a 7" item (which wouldn't fit in the tool roll !) if it was lost or damaged. If the 7" adjustable came from WD stocks then it should normally be 'WD' marked. In this case, it would clearly indicate that 'WD' stamped is less original and that Sgnlmn. Pier R. was on a fizzer for losing his tools again !


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Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

Have you got any pictures of the jack, I have one somewhere with a wartime date, but I don't know what a Norton one is supposed to look like.
If I can find it, it would be up for grabs

email (option): davmax@ntlworld.com

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

Yes here it is Dave. It's the model 7DL. I think the research was done by Lex, Rob Miller and Clive Sammut. They are quite hard to come by which is why I grabbed this 1938 item. Rik I'm not even sure if Austin made they're own jacks? I think I require a different make for my Tilly...Where is Clive when you need him. As far as I know the only Austin part on the Big4 is the Austin Big7 prop shaft, and it's possible that the bucket seat in the chair is from an Austin car/truck? Simply because these items were not produced by Norton or Shelly. Ron

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email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Any dates on the tools/spanners for the tool box ?

I thought I'd read somewhere Ron (a Norton book probably) that Shelley made the jack for the Austin 7 pre-war and that this was then utilised for the WD Big 4 but many of the stories about WD contracts in the various Norton histories are little more than half-truths.

I remember that the very similar Shelley jack with my ex-MOD Land Rover had about half a dozen registration numbers stamped on it so I'd guess that all the tools went back to Ordnance stores when vehicles were refurbished meaning that they could end up anywhere.

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