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Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Thank you for your interesting responses on "Don't Stop Believing." I love "these arpeggios go to 11." Moonbeam, you have certainly been the primary proponent on these boards of the "there are (or should be) no guilty pleasures" school. The ability to convey an unfettered, if not unreserved, joy in whatever music grabs you is, in general, to my mind, a better model of criticism. It is one that the over-analytical part of my brain balks at, but probably shouldn't.

As for guilty pleasures, I just discovered this discussion from two years ago: http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3172289350&frmid=10&msgid=738660&cmd=show "Don't Stop Believing" made an appearance, as did a prominent (but different) single from the next band I will discuss.

I'd love to hear from people who believe that there is little value to "Don't Stop...." It must have its detractors. However, there seems to be a developing consensus that it is a good, worthy song. I may well get the same response on the 1982 song. I'm not so sure about the 1983 song, where I'm expecting more cries of "you're crazy."

I can't do as long of a post for the next two. But my 1982 entry is the one song of the three that is not on the AM top-3000, which is surprising, since it is the year's winner of the Grammy for Record of the Year.

It is Toto's "Rosanna."

What grabs me in this song? Well, I think it's in how the many hooks relate to one another. The intro is at an in-between groove... not particularly hard, not quite slow and smooth. Nothing too much to latch onto except the drumbeat. (Jeff Porcaro seems to have been quite admired.) The first vocal hook comes quickly. It's a nice enough tune when the intial singer first swoops into Rosanna, but nothing special. Then all of a sudden the same tune gains new life when it is repeated a minor 7th higher by another, more rockin' singer. (I'm sorry I don't know their names. I am not going to claim to be any sort of Toto expert. For all I know it could be the same singer changing his tone, although the video shows two different guys.) For some reason that modulation is a bit thrilling, accompanied by the first hard guitars of the song.

The contrast becomes even more apparent as the grandiosity drops out into the lower-register doo-wop-esque bridge. And just as you get used to that new groove, the horn fill - a hook unto itself - blasts forth. This isn't soulful, Stax horns. This is slick and pitch-perfect. Then a short breath of a pause. Then the surprisingly funky chorus. (No, of course, I'm not talking George Clinton-level funk.) Complete with shout-sung harmonies.

Then it all repeats again. Then a solo section that does not match the songwriting we heard before. Then we welcome back the bridge and chorus. I would have been perfectly happy for the chorus to repeat for a few minutes until fade-out, but they throw in a "jazzy" outro.

"Rosanna" certainly sounds like the product of a band made up of seasoned session musicians. There is not a note, a beat, a hair out of place. Transitions from one portion of the song to next, from one singer to another, and from one solo to the next are seamless. It is a slick, oiled machine -- as Hollywood as the latest Simpson/Bruckheimer movie.

Is that to be admired? Reviled? Or is it just the trappings, and all that really matters is the song? I don't think the latter can be the case. Performance, arrangement, and production matter. I would just say that such slickness is not universally bad or good. In this case, I feel that it serves a interesting, different song, and serves it well.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Oh, and Schwah - I'm surprised you didn't find room in your appreciation of "Don't Stop Believin'" to mention my personal favorite moment: the spiraling, these-arpeggios-go-to-11 fade-in that marks the first appearance of Neal Schon's guitar, bridging the gap between Tom Scholz and The Edge.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

I love "Don't Stop Believing," and your way-too-long post was not in vain. Every single moment of that song is a good one. (Don't forget that high note Steve Perry sings after the bridge).

But I got to thinking about what young people think about the song. It is, in fact, almost universally loved (at least in my circles). It's one of those songs everybody just knows, and if you were to start singing it everyone around you would join in. It's a song that reveals exactly how un-cheesy it is after a few listens, like "Stsyin' Alive" or "Bohemian Rhapsody," when it's like "Wait...this hasn't gotten old yet, it just gets better..."

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

So if everyone loves this song so much, why will it never rank as highly in any of our polls as Love Will Tear Us Apart or Common People?

Schwah asked the question why the songs aren't great. The concensus seems to be that the song is in fact great. So why doesn't it get the credit as such?

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

SR
So if everyone loves this song so much, why will it never rank as highly in any of our polls as Love Will Tear Us Apart or Common People?

Schwah asked the question why the songs aren't great. The concensus seems to be that the song is in fact great. So why doesn't it get the credit as such?


cause schwah was the first to man up and admit what everyone secretly believes.

a day in the life is going down next poll!

actually, i still think it's cheesy, no matter what anyone says. i think it is the epitome of cheesiness, but what the hell, it's so much fun to sing along to!

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Schwah
But apparently, "Open Arms" (which reached #2 and had the epic air instruments video that now is considered the ultimate in early 80's music video craft) was the bigger hit.


Okay, I'm an idiot. I obviously conflated "Open Arms" and "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)," which wasn't even on Escape. "Open Arms" was the bigger hit, but kinda boring. "Separate Ways" was the rockin' video.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Schwah
I'm not so sure about the 1983 song, where I'm expecting more cries of "you're crazy."

I can't do as long of a post for the next two. But my 1982 entry is the one song of the three that is not on the AM top-3000...


... Which means that your 1983 entry IS on the AM top 3000. Which, to my mind, means it could be one of four possibilities (three hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100, the other was #2 for several weeks). Oh, I'm hoping it's the one I would pick. "TA, BE..."

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Another great post, Schwah! I'm not too crazy about "Rosanna", but I ADORE "Africa"- it's one of my top 500 songs, for sure. I get all caught up in it and just let it run through me. "Rosanna" is a good song, too, even perhaps a great one, but it doesn't have me singing arias like "Africa" does- seriously, the line "sure as Kiliminjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" combines music with one of my other obsessions- geography. The blissful harmonies and the sudden outburst of "It's gonna take a lot to drag me awaayyyyyy from youuuuuu" are Moonbeam heaven.

As for the "no such thing as a guilty pleasure" thing, I think it's too easy to be so self-aware and dismiss music we naturally like simply because we feel that we should know better. I think that's really a bunch of crap- music can be appreciated for countless reasons and in countless circumstances. I'm not hankering for the next Richard Marx album, but I'll be damned if he didn't mean a lot to me back when I was 9. It may not appeal to people other than kids and soccer moms, but that polished brand of soft rock/rock ballads had its place. That isn't to say that it's above derision (no music is, but that's another discussion), but I'll be damned if I don't want to sing along with "Angelia" and "Hazard" when they pop up on my Ipod.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

TA BE indeed would be my favorite of the 3! Actually, looking through the AM list of songs from 1983 makes me absolutely gaga. "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life"? The bubbler "Juicy Fruit"? "Never Stop"? Lucky Frickin' Star? "Let the Music Play"? "Blue Monday"? And of course, "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)"?

Sometimes I feel that if I were somehow transported to 1983, I'd never want to come back.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Goodness. How could I have gone so long w/o mentioning "Hey Ya." Gotta be about 15 hooks in that song that could carry an entire song.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Moonbeam
Actually, looking through the AM list of songs from 1983 makes me absolutely gaga.[...] Sometimes I feel that if I were somehow transported to 1983, I'd never want to come back.


uomafbc, pt. 2: next nostalgia fail... Limahl's The Neverending Story sparked in 1984, you memoron..

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

netjade
Moonbeam
Actually, looking through the AM list of songs from 1983 makes me absolutely gaga.[...] Sometimes I feel that if I were somehow transported to 1983, I'd never want to come back.


uomafbc, pt. 2: next nostalgia fail... Limahl's The Neverending Story sparked in 1984, you memoron..


Then, I could have written "The Neverending Story".

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

netjade
Moonbeam

uomafbc, pt. 2: next nostalgia fail... Limahl's The Neverending Story sparked in 1984, you memoron..


Then, I could have written "The Neverending Story".



.or ooww ish you had.
..jus like the primla falctor, kcirp: if you ever had to put an end to it, me wormboothpac guessed it wouldn't've ended laik that Major tombat lash mehgain.. ageain9UT3

.nauwl satt we knowl...

noombeams, ayneon?



sorry for all the pseudomultichordplundering stuff looting in here, but that's where my serponal creamcheese goin' at... and at last the end tastes like an end..
meet you all the way..

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Schwah, great great comments to the two songs so far. Two songs that I have always had mixed feelings about, but after listening together with reading your essays I now think that they are quite outstanding. Hooks galore! Next song however, I'm sure it is TA BE and my reaction to that is OH NO.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Sorry to keep everyone waiting. Haven't had time the last few days. And honestly I'm questioning whether my 1983 entry is even worth it. But I've come this far, so I'll try and post on it in the next few days...

I realize I must be dense, but what is "TA BE"?

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Turn around, bright eyes! I'd live to see your post, Schwah, whatever the song may be. You've made me re-evaluate my thoughts on the first two songs.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Oh, of course...

No it is not Ms. Tyler, although she probably deserves a post of her own.

My choice may be even more controversial.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

"Total Eclipse of the Heart" is totally awesome.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

Schwah
Oh, of course...

No it is not Ms. Tyler, although she probably deserves a post of her own.

My choice may be even more controversial.


Oh, dear Lord. I think I know what the song is. It's a #1 hit, written and produced by a famous family trio, and sung by two of the biggest in country music.

Plus a guy with a beard.



I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist. I should have, but I couldn't.

Re: The multi-hook masterpieces

I'm still waiting for 1983, Schwah!