I'm a hardcore music geek. Maybe not the most open-minded, maybe not the most intellectual, but someone who I think can recognize a lot of what makes good music good.

I've tried and tried to understand what makes people think this album is so great. I just don't get it. I also don't get the Beach Boys being all that good in general, so maybe that's part of the problem.

Can someone give me a quick answer to the question "why is this the best album ever?"

And if anyone wants to insult me while they're responding, go for it. I won't mind.

i'll try to answer.

first of all, it's not overrated. there are very few albums worthy of the no#1 spot and, in my opinion, pet sounds is the best of the bunch. it's better than anything the beatles every did, better than blonde on blonde, better than nevermind, and better than ok computer. that might sound hard to believe. i thought so too when i first heard the album, but it's grown on me. i recommend giving it another listen, and if it still doesn't do anything for you, wait a while and try again.

i'll go through what i think are the highlights on the album. the first comes the moment you press play.

on the surface, "wouldn't it be nice" is a happy pop song. but when you listen a bit deeper, it's an incredibly sad song. have a listen to the opening melody, the harmonies at 0:35 1:13 and 1:20, and you also have to remember that what he means when he says "wouldn't it be nice" is "it would be nice... but it's not". you can hear that's what he means, especially when he says it later in the song.

the next brilliant song on the album is "don't talk (put your head on my shoulder)". the most powerful moment in this song comes at 1:35 when he sings "and listen to my heart beat" and then "listen. listen. listen" immediately after. if that's not powerful, i don't know what is.

the last amazing song on the album is probably the best of them all: "god only knows". it's brilliant from the moment you press play and it stays brilliant right through to the end. the highlights are too many to mention. just listen and i'm sure you'll hear them; especially if you've managed to hear the brilliance of the songs mentioned above.

i really hope that helps. good luck and don't give up!

It took me a long time to appreciate Pet Sounds as a 5 star album Frank. I don't know why, maybe it's my Beatles bias but I didn't truly love Pet Sounds until about a year ago. I can still name 3 Beatles albums that are better but Pet Sounds is easily top 10 now in my book.

I think the main thing is to forget about the songs you've heard a million times- God Only Knows, Sloop John B., Wouldn't It Be Nice... listen to the rest of the album and realize how consistently good it is and then maybe you'll be listen to the other ones in the context of the album. Because, this isn't a singles album, it's a bunch of great songs that fit perfectly together.

Oh, and forget about the production too. Production doesn't make an album timeless, great songs do. Obviously, production has something to do with great songs, but I think Pet Sounds is hyped as this genius Brian Wilson studio album and a lot of people go out of it thinking, what's so great about that? At the time, it was pretty other worldly, but now I think most people should just listen to how great the songs are to get a true picture of how classic Pet Sounds really is.

It's the most perfect pop album ever created. The Beach Boys and the Kinks came the closest to making the perfect pop song. And it's better than anything the Beatles ever did(which Paul McCartney would agree with).

I don't know - I'd take any of the three Big Star albums over Pet Sounds for pop craft.

Maybe we should make it more specific. Why is Pet Sounds considered superior to Let It Bleed?

Pet Sounds lacks the gravitas or innovation (again, in my opinion) of the greatest albums. Yes, it's innovative. Yes, it sounds different from what came before it. But did it conquer new ground? Or is it just a pretty album?

The argument that God Only Knows is achingly beautiful does not make Pet Sounds the greatest album of all-time. God Only Knows itself is not among the greatest songs of all time according to this site. Take Good Vibrations, Wouldn't It Be Nice and God Only Knows. Are those three songs better/more important than, say, Heroin, I'm Waiting for My Man and Sunday Morning? Gimme Shelter, You Can't Always Get What You Want and Midnight Rambler? Purple Haze, Are You Experienced, and Hey Joe? Is every song on Pet Sounds a classic?

I wouldn't say every song on Pet Sounds is a classic. In fact other than Wouldn't It Be Nice and of course God Only Knows I dont think any of the songs are classics. This is an album's album though. Creativity wise, it covers a lot of ground. The Beatles and the girl groups had some pretty sweet harmonies, but the harmonies on Pet Sounds blows all of those away. It's those same harmonies that we hear again and again on records like Fleet Foxes and Merriweather Post Pavillion. The albums influence is incredibly far reaching.

Also, the lyrics are quite deep, particularly for 1966. Try to listen to it a 3rd or a 4th time, only don't try to listen to it too hard. Brian Wilson once said "it's more of an album to be felt, rather than listened to".

I do agree with you though that it's not the greatest album of all time, though it certainly lays a solid claim to that title. I also dont love anything by the Beach Boys not cut in 1966.

Thanks. I don't see it having a legitimate claim to the throne. I'm waiting for the member who agrees with me and doesn't see Pet Sounds in the top 25 or top 50, which is where I sit. I can easily reel off 25 albums off the top of my head that I view as "better" than Pet Sounds. Which is why I had to ask the question - why is this album considered among the best. i'm still very much unconvinced.

You may be waiting a while to find someone here who agrees with than opinion. I put Pet Sounds in my top 10. Just to me, it seems that every time I listen to it the more and more I like it. Its a beautiful album, a very sweeping album, yet it also feels so sad. After Wouldn't It Be Nice, my next favorite song is Let's Go Away For A While. Such a perfect instrumental.

Innovative music is not always great, and great music is not always innovative. When I rank albums, I do it based on what I feel when listening to them.

I agree with you Frank. I've never "gotten" Pet Sounds. But I also don't get the Beatles. I put Odessey and Oracle in my top 5, though, and I love Village Green Preservation Society. So, I feel like I can appreciate a couple of albums that people would say are close in style to the Beatles and Pet Sounds.

Pet Sounds consistently ranks in my top 5 albums of all time (though I doubt it will ever reach the number one spot.) So I'll try to explain why I like it so much.

First off all there's the instrumentation. While most bands were using the simple lead guitar, rythm guitar, bass, drums- the beach boys were using all those and were also using keyboards, orchestrated strings, bicycle bells, buzzing organs, harpsichords, flutes, theremins, Hawaiian-sounding string instruments, Coca-Cola cans, barking dogs, and the sound of trains.
Tell me that's not awesome.

Second of all the pop melody's. In my opinion no album is more melodic than Pet Sounds. Everything from the perfect harmony of the voices, to the touches of the keyboards and abundance of instruments just seems to fit so well together. And the album also contains some of the best lyrics ever written. ("God Only Knows", "Caroline, No", etc.)
The album can be powerful without any sense of pretension ("I Know There's An Answer", "Don't Talk"). Oh, and Brian Wilson might just be the greatest singer ever. Just saying...

To me this album perfectly captures the feeling of my all time favorite season, summer. Early summer mornings all the way to the late summer nights. The way the album feels is incredible to me. The songs are easy to relate to, but in no way appeal to the lowest common denominator. The lyrics invoke thoughts of new love, failed love, young love, old love, optimism, pessimism, and everything in between.

Also the album is one of the most influential albums ever released, pretty much changed pop music, and directly influenced The Beatles to write their masterpiece "Sgt. Pepper's..." as a reply to the greatness of this album.

I'll try to put it simply: it's the melody. "Pet Sounds" is, to me, the best pop album ever made. Every song is a killer in terms of melody - it's all ridiculously pretty. Some people don't like that (and I guess I get that), but to me, that makes it one of the greatest albums ever created. Everyone's always going to have a critically acclaimed album that they just don't "get" (I have a few, including "Nevermind", "Low", and "Let It Bleed" which is one that you love). I'm sure that I probably can't convince you that "Pet Sounds" is great, but that's why we each have our own opinion.

There are two ways of looking at it. From a musician's point of view many would say that Wilson's songs are perfect little compositions. While the Wrecking Crew were perhaps the greatest session musicians ever, and I would argue the Beach Boys to be the greatest singers, their music is largely down to composition rather than playing, virtuosity, improvisation etc. It's someone completely at ease with music; for example: pulling timeless melodies out of the air; sometimes on top of simple chord progressions, and at other times using less common chords to pop music; making effective use of polychords; making effortless yet complex key changes; composing inspired instrumental and vocal arrangements; and refining Phil Spector's production techniques into a sound that follows the mood of the music rather than always being in top gear.

Then on a personal level, I think many people relate deeply to the personality of the album. It's emotional music and is communicated in an emotional way with beautiful and dramatic vocals and arrangments, such that if you relate to it then it hits you hard. Even though it is pop music, it's unselfconscious, believable, and I personally find it transcendent. It expresses an almost sacred beauty that I don't see or hear elsewhere.

I'll put one of these in to distract you from the lameness of my post.

I don't think Pet Sounds should be #1, but definitely top 50.

Every song is good, and each has a great melody and perfect production. It's one of those few albums that's hard to get tired of no many how many times you listen to it. Additionally it captured a feeling of plaintive longing and dissatisfaction that resonates well beyond it's own time.

My take on Pet Sounds is that it’s an immaculately crafted gem of an album. It’s also one that I almost never listen to (except for a few songs: “Wouldn’t It Be Nice,” “God Only Knows, “Caroline, No”).

That it’s a great musical accomplishment is irrefutable, I think. But since many are bringing up (appropriately) its emotional content, let me talk about that, because that’s actually where it leaves me cold.

It’s a much darker album than it usually gets credit for. By itself, that’s not a problem--I love me some seriously “dark” albums from Low to Kid A. But I hear Pet Sounds as beautiful love songs written and sung by a clinically depressed person (even disregarding Brian Wilson’s biography). Maybe it’s just me, but that’s very difficult to listen to for an entire album.

Pet Sounds sings in the voice of someone who’s lost his innocence but hasn’t learned anything. Brian obviously feels the pain of growing up, but he has no perspective on it. To paraphrase a bonus track, he’s desperately trying to hang onto his ego, but he doesn’t know how. He’s completely vulnerable. Maybe that means he’s making a really authentic utterance, but I find it, frankly, irritating and pathetic. And not even the Beach Boys’ beautiful harmonies (which I love) and some of the most brilliant studio arranging in history can salvage that for me.

Interesting viewpoint.

Mine is more simplistic (and therefore, probably wrong). I think this album is an overrated piece of work from a group that doesn't have all that much merit - not when compared with the other greats.

Put it this way - they have a big body of work because they've been around a long time. According to Acclaimed Music, after Pet Sounds at #1, their next best album is Surf's Up at 496. Then you fall to Beach Boys Today at 800. So take Pet Sounds out and the Beach Boys look a lot more like a relatively insignificant singles band with no albums of great importance. Absent Pet Sounds, their Acclaimed Music portfolio looks more like Rod Stewart's than it does Radiohead's.

I listen to this album, I appreciate that some of the songs are very good and are unique/fresh. However, I feel like I can say that about a lot of records. And I just don't have any emotional reaction to this album the way I do with Who's Next or The Ramones or Automatic for the People or Loaded.

I'm glad that Paul McCartney and others like this album a lot. But I can't help feeling like it's a massively overrated piece of work by a 2nd rate act that doesn't deserve its acclaim. Not next to Blonde on Blonde or Revolver or Exile or Bollocks.

this is one man's incorrect opinion. i'll shut up now

My biggest problem with Pet Sounds -- too many similar sounding songs. I'm talking about "You Still Believe In Me", "Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)", "Caroline, No", "Let's Go Away For A While" and "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times".

I love "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "Sloop John B.", but it's the lackadaisical, sluggish songs that ruin the album for me.

(An album like Odessey has way more variety, but gets none of the praise. Go figure.)

"But I can't help feeling like it's a massively overrated piece of work by a 2nd rate act that doesn't deserve its acclaim. Not next to Blonde on Blonde or Revolver or Exile or Bollocks."

So the music critics who make the lists, and all the other music fanatics who love it, are all mistaken about how good they think it is, and you alone know the ACTUAL rating?

As I tried to convey in my earlier post, I actually do have a lot of respect for the Beach Boys, even if Pet Sounds is not a personal favorite. For one thing, and I realize this is kind of primitive, I just really like surf guitar, vocal harmonies, and, for that matter, songs about cool vehicles. I also think that they're in the small circle of acts who genuinely created an innovative and influential sound (influential for the Ramones, for starters).

So, Frank, although I agree with all of the other artists you've mentioned, I can't agree that the Beach Boys are overrated.

You want overrated? I nominate the artist ranked #5 on this site (long-timers won't even have to look that one up).

exile - you are not reading my words. it's obvious that i have a different opinion than the rock critics and paul mccartney and others.

i am quite clearly questioning the acclaim of the record. part of it is my opinion and part of it is calling into question whether the beach boys were really any good. i want to debate it. if you don't and you want to mindlessly follow the critics, god bless and have fun.

Agreed on the bolded portion. Of course, we're all entitled to our own opinions, but I hope we don't get high and mighty about them. I also hope this doesn't turn into one big argument again...

Nah, Zeppelin rule.
Most overrated artist in the top 20?
That'd be Neil Young.
Not that he's bad... I actually think he's really good. Just no way should he be in the top 20.

The new trend (as I learned from being shot down for making an objective argument about the quality of a particular artist) is to say that the appreciation of all art is subjective. Therefore, everyone's opinion is equally valid. Since it is logically impossible to argue that somebody else's subjective opinion is "wrong," the entire discussion is kind of pointless. The best we can do is ponder why so many critics subjectively like Pet Sounds.

For what it's worth (very little), Pet Sounds is, subjectively speaking, one of my top 10 favorite albums.

I just like the way the whole thing sounds. It's poppy without being cliche, and it stands up well to repeated listens.

frank, it's clear that you don't completely understand the album. how would you know where it should be ranked? once you do understand it, you will know where it should be ranked: top 10.

music does have a subjectivity to it, such as one could argue whether works like pet sounds or blonde on blonde or superior (i go with blonde on blonde, myself) but saying pet sounds should barely crack the top 50 i think is inaccurate. i think (at least for 60s/70s) the general values for the albums are close to accurate. stuff from the 90s and the 00s have yet to grow the accepted musical stature of earlier rock and because of that i don't think those lists will be close to accurate for some years.
but back to the point, i don't think pet sounds is the greatest album of all time, but it makes an impressive claim. it took me far more than a few listens to fully appreciate the album. besides the obvious songs i really enjoy "that's not me" "i'm waiting for the day" and "i know there's an answer" especially. i think what makes this album great is that you can just feel the emotion of their voices resonate within you, it's comforting and sad.

moe - fair enough - maybe i don't understand the album. that's the whole point of the original post, which you were good enough to be the first to respond to. i'll go listen again. but i'm pretty sure i'll get the same result. this has not enlightened me beyond the knowledge that a lot of people love this album and only a few are in the under-enlightened category like myself.

paul - i refuse to give up on having some sort of objective discussion about the beach boys.

does anyone want to argue that outside of pet sounds, the beach boys made any other important album? or that they are truly the outlier when it comes to the gap between their best work and the next best work? find another artist in the top 50 that has at least a few albums where they had one great (say, top 75) album and such a precipitous drop to their 2nd best work.

i think what you're also forgetting is the beach boys are mostly helped out by their singles besides pet sounds. they've got quite a few good ones. i like "don't worry baby"

'Today','Sunflower' and 'Surf's Up' are all solid albums...

Frank, I agree with you about the subjective/objective issue. (I was just making trouble.)

I already explained why I like the album, but the great number of other fans also speaks volumes. Generally speaking, if a large number of critics and music fans love an album, it's safe to assume that there must be something great about the album. Logically speaking, it's far more likely that you are "wrong" (by not seeing the brilliance of Pet Sounds) than for so many fans and critics to all be "wrong" about thinking that Pet Sounds is an amazing album. The mere fact that the music can still impress so many people forty years after it was released establishes its greatness.

FWIW, I myself took a long time to grips with Pet Sounds. As I aged (and my musical tastes evolved), it began to sound better and better. Ten years ago, I was just like you on the subject.

Also, the Beach Boys did MAKE another classic album ("Smile"). It's just that they never released it.

No, you misunderstand me. I don't follow critics and that was a juvenile closing comment. Many things can be overrated in the general population, but AM generally involves a subset of people who are extremely passionate and knowledgeable about music. There is an extent to which people are pressured to put something in a list if it is accepted to be great; generally however, acclaim is the aggregated opinion of people whose opinion clearly has more integrity and validity than your own self-acclaimed "hardcore music geek" status.

If I was to make a snap judgement based on what you have said so far, I would say that you have narrow interest limited mostly to guitar-driven rock music. There's nothing to debate if it's just not your kind of music. In terms of whether they are "good" or not, the opinions of musicians, and hopefully your own understanding of music, should put your mind at ease.

Amen to that, Paul. There have been albums and bands and songs (and movies and books) that it took me years--decades, sometimes--to appreciate (Radiohead is my best current example of this). I'm open to the possibility that I might appreciate Pet Sounds more one day.

I think that's the key--being open to it (which, Frank, you obviously are, since you started this thread). The music we love feels very personal, and also very timeless. That makes it hard to imagine that our tastes won't always be exactly what they are right now. But they won't be.

(A related matter is that, ideally, we should be able to appreciate more and more music without forgetting the stuff we loved when we were younger. But that's another topic.)

exile -

your observation is absolutely right - I have a strong bias toward guitar-driven rock. my collection would bear that out.

the reason i brought this up here was to debate it with other "hard core music geeks," not with the yahoo answers crowd, and to hopefully learn something. i absolutely get that my opinion of pet sounds is not widely held and that there is some kind of "wisdom of the masses." that there is something about this record that i'm not appreciating.

and maybe this album has aged in a way that makes it more meaningful and significant than it used to be considered. one thing i have learned from this discussion is that there are others who were not necessarily blown away with pet sounds earlier for whom its stature has grown through time.

back 20-30 years ago, when i was in high school/college, rolling stone and spin and the village voice/christgau and others would put out album rankings, which i consumed voraciously. i don't have them in front of me, but my memory tells me the consensus back then was that the top albums were
sgt pepper
blonde on blonde
exile on main st
astral weeks
are you experienced
highway 61
revolver/rubber soul

i don't remember reading about pet sounds in the top tier.

i'm ready to let this go. i think i've learned what i can - the rest will come from spending more time with the album. the one remaining thing that i'm still puzzling over is whether the beach boys deserve #17 all-time based on one record and a few singles, as the rest of their canon is not up to snuff. should they be revered next to the clash or REM or the velvet underground and radiohead? i have this greatest hits CD of the BB's. i listened to it recently and just found it lacking. clearly, they are not my taste.

Pet Sounds is my all-time #1 album. In non-music lover circles I wear that on my sleeve and relish the opportunities to brag about my good taste whenever someone tells me their favorite is 50 Cent's Get Rich or Die Tryin'. (Just for example. That's not a bad album, but it's nowhere close).

Probably the biggest reason for me is the emotion. Everyone has rough times (especially Brian Wilson) and Pet Sounds has sort of become my "bad day" album, and when I say "bad day" I mean "really, really bad and depressing." (I don't listen to it that often, which is for the better). Although on the surface it seems really beautiful, but in practice it's horribly sad; Brian's got pressure on him from all sides, he feels out of place in the world, he has questions but no answers and on top of all that, he's hanging on to his idealized version of love even though he knows he's headed for a breakdown. And he verbalizes all this on top of a pop symphony so gorgeous you would barely know he's sad; it's like the biggest fake smile in the world. It must of taken him ages to layer all those instruments together, and it's a big risk because it so easily could have been over-the-top melodramatic, yet he hits the spot so sweetly. It's that search for something beautiful in the moment of pain. And it's so intricately done, the instruments do such a great job of interacting with one another. The harmonies are killer too. I swear, every time I listen to the album I pick out a new voice in the mix.

Wow, I wrote a lot. I'll just let it digest for now I guess, good luck listening to it Frank.

Schleuse and Paul,
Do you think that if it takes you years and years to appreciate something, there's a chance you're just convincing yourself that you like something you really don't?

No. I think my tastes evolve over time. And it works both ways. I used to really love alt-country in the 1990s. Now not so much. My tastes change as I learn more about music and hear different styles. But they also change as a result of differences in my life. I'm older, married, have kids, different pressures, etc.

One more thing: My appreciation for Pet Sounds did not increase incrementally over time. It happened all at once. One day it just suddenly clicked for me when I happened to hear the album in the right circumstances. This prompted me to listen to the album a bunch more, which made me love something that I had for years simply written off as being "overrated."

It's hard for me to judge that particular viewpoint, since it's not far from what I used to feel in high school. Emotionally I would compare it to a less autobiographical 'Blinking Lights and Other Revelations'.

Some people, especially teenagers, just don't know how to deal with being judged socially when the standards they're being judged by are just based on comparison to the top of the bell curve. It does make you depressed knowing that the kind of conformity that comes easy to others is strenuous and ingenuine to you. Combine that with the pressure of being constantly compared with the Beatles while everybody was sure they were headed for nuclear annihilation, maybe Pet Sounds is just as pathetic as the times.

You are right. Before 1990 these were definately the top 9 albums. However, since this time, we've been able to ascertain that both Pet Sounds and the VU&N were incredibly influential on future generations of musicians. You hear Pet Sounds and VU&N all the time now in the acclaimed music made by modern artists. As they hindsight is 20/20. At the time of it's release, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was far and away the greatest musical triumph up untill that point, however we now know that it's influence hasn't been quite as far reaching as was originally though, and Revolver is the more ground-breaking record.

I just want to comment that Albums should not be the only criteria when judging an artist's worth. Singles/Songs are critical too. Also, it's my opinion that Surf's Up, Sunflower, Today, and even Friends are all underrated primarily BECAUSE of the dominance of Pet Sounds.

Like Paul, no. As time passes, sometimes I’m just able to hear things I hadn’t before.

I recognize that people do sometimes convince themselves they like something they think they “should” like, but let’s face it, that’s kind of perverse. The only reason to pretend to like something is to try to impress people, and I’m waaay too old for that.

Anyway, Pet Sounds is the most acclaimed album of all time. Many people whose opinions I respect love it. If I were going to pretend to like an album, wouldn’t that be the *first* one?

Let’s agree to assume that we’re all being genuine with our opinions. I’ve seen what happens on this forum when folks start accusing others of not really meaning what they say. It’s juvenile and ugly, and it can never go anywhere.

I meant no disrespect Schleuse. I believe you if you say you've learned to appreciate something. I think we're probably all a little guilty of Trout Mask Replica syndrome or Metal Machine Music syndrome, though, from time to time.

Yeeees, Moeboid!! And when Brian says “listen, listen, listen” the bass guitar plays (in an elegant and subtle way) a “boom-boom” pattern mimicking a heartbeat. I’ve always supposed that intentionally, but I’m not sure. But let’s try to find another 9 “goose-bump” moments in Pet Sounds:
10. “I Just Wasn’t Made for These Times”: the very first use of a synthesizer on a pop song is this ghostly theremin at 2’33”. No, he wasn’t made for those times, in fact he was creating the new ones.
9. “Let’s Go Away for Awhile”: this wonderful vibraphone at the beginning of the song!! Good vibes!!
8. “You Still Believe in Me”: what’s that sound at 1’27”?. Yes, you heard it well, it’s a bicycle bell, just before a symphony of heavenly vocal harmonies.
7. “I’m Waiting for the Day”: the brief fragment of the string quartet at 2’21”, just before the festive ending of the song and just after the line “I’m waiting for the day when you can love again”.
6. “God Only Knows”: inside the vast array of meticulous arrangements in “Pet Sounds” I must point to the (largely influential) percussion arrangements. Tambourines, bells or kettledrum played in such an imaginative way that can transform by themselves a quite simple song as “Here Today” in a symphony. But the special mention goes to the sleigh bells and woodblocks that can be heard in “God Only Knows” from 0’17”, resembling a horse-drawn carriage with a sound evocative of Christmas.
5. “Here Today”: the bass guitar ascendant triplets under the keyboards in 4/4 that can be heard at 2’15” (and used later in “Good Vibrations”) are now one of the trademark Wilson sounds (plagiarized by many bands, Fleet Foxes for instance, listen to “Quiet Houses” at 2’29”). In fact all the bass line at “Here Today” is fabulous. But enough instrumental moments, we’re talking about The Beach Boys! What about the voices?
4. “Wouldn’t It Be Nice”: the fragment sang by Michael Love at 1’07” suddenly permeates such a happy song with sadness, the sweet Mike voice contrasting with the euphoric happy falsetto of Brian. “Maybe if we think and wish and hope and pray it might come true”. Wouldn’t it be nice?
3. “Don’t Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder)”: “listen, listen, listen” at 1’46” and you can actually listen to his heartbeat.
2. “Caroline, No”: apart of his qualities as songwriter and producer, Brian is a terrific singer too, with one the most beautiful falsettos ever. After the precious melody of the verses (some bands like Animal Collective made a whole career copying the trademark Wilson flying melodies going up and down the scale and sounding so sad despite the major chords) the real highlight comes at 0’55”, when Brian sings with a falsetto “You break my heart / I want to go and cry”, then breaks during the word “sad” in the line “It’s so sad to watch a sweet thing die”. It never fails to bring tears to my eyes. Oh, Caroline, no.
1. “God Only Knows”: and, of course, number 1 is my favourite minute of music ever, the last minute of “God Only Knows”. At 2’00” Carl Wilson repeats the chorus of the song, then Brian, Bruce and Carl again join adding some other melodies that intertwine with the main melody creating a kind of loop, a spiral that elevates you to heaven…

Honorio - That was exactly the kind of well thought out answer this thread deserved. Great stuff.

I agree with Paul. That's the kind of thing I could do to Doolittle or Odyssey and Oracle. (Maybe not as well)

Thanks a lot for your kind words, Paul and Chris F. The affirmation “I just don't get it” referring to 'Pet Sounds' was so serious that I felt the need to do something to 'convert' Frank Han. Join our congregation, Frank, come with us...

Sorry, Honorio. Highlighting 10 moments will not help me, nor will I spend the time to appreciate them the way you do.

Either it will one day speak to me or it won't. Right now, it's a pretty album. But it doesn't move me, it doesn't inspire me, it doesn't get my blood flowing. So be it.

Note that even though I love music, there is no record where I could pull out 10 specific moments and write about them. Not sure that that's a bad thing. But I'm not listening to anything quite that closely.

Frank, why you ask for answers if you don't want to spend time with them?

I have always enjoyed Pet Sounds but not ranked it among my absolute favorites. I have a feeling that if I read these answers the next time I listen to it, it will get that final boost to the top.

Honorio, your insight and attention to detail always astound me (both here and in the HOA). I don't know if your list will convert me, but I'll have it with me the next time I give Pet Sounds a spin, and I'm sure it will give me more insight.

Thanks.

Henrik - I intend to spend more time with the album. I'm not going to have a guide next to me saying "listen for this moment at 4'21 into the song, where a bell goes off - that moment moves me."

I feel like that would be like one poster said - trying too hard to like something because you know you're supposed to.

This discussion has given me a sense of why people find this album to be a moving, emotional experience, which I think is the core of why it's great. So I take that away and it will surely influence future listens.

Frank, that's fine. Personally I really look forward to sit down and listen to Honorio's ten moments, but of course that sort of listening doesn't have to be everyone's cup of tea.

Many many thanks schleuse and Henrik. Attention to detail is essential when applied to “Pet Sounds”, it’s an album filled with splendid little bits that are meticulously tied creating a big sum (even greater than the parts). This is the same collage technique that Wilson perfected in “Good Vibrations” and overwhelmed him in “Smile”.
And, Frank, my list was not intended as a guide of listening, my intention was to stimulate your enjoyment of such a wonderful record, as other posters before. No problem anyway, I don’t get too some acclaimed albums, “Loveless” for instance, please someone can write a guide for me?

Oddly enough, I just listened to Loveless again the other day. I think it's a fantastic record, but, unlike Pet Sounds, it's probably best NOT to pay too much attention to the details. MBV is so loud that if you "unfocus," melody actually emerges from the noise. Kind of like one of those old Magic Eye puzzles.

(Yes, Honorio, I know you were joking.)

I think Loveless draws its beauty from confusion... kind of like Daydream Nation.

I'm not a big fan of Pet Sounds but I'd like to point out some things that explain why it is #1 on the AM3000.

First, it seems that you can not dislike Pet Sounds. Some people, including me, think that it is not the best album ever or don't understand why it is in the top 10, but I think we all agree that it is a very good album... While I know people who don't get Blonde on Blonde or Nevermind the Bollocks at all.

Thus, Pet Sounds end on almost every critic list. However a quick look at the lists with Pet Sounds and at those with Revolver makes me think that, even though I did not do the maths, the average rank of Pet Sounds is below the average rank of Revolver.
But Revolver suffer from the biggest competition of the other discs of the Beatles.
Almost every critic list will put Pet Sounds as the best Beach Boys album, while the best Beatles album might be Revolver as well as Rubber Soul, the White Album or Sergent Pepper. And sometimes, critics wants to limit the number of albums by the same band on their list (especially in the lists named "top albums that changed the world" more than "best albums ever") which I think might give a disadvantage to Beatles or Dylan's albums vs. Nevermind and Pet Sounds.

Well, that was a totally "AM site" answer, not an answer about the overall quality ^^

By the way, can someone explain me why Like A Rolling Stone is the #1 song ?

Sure. When making "greatest songs" lists, Like A Rolling Stones frequently tops them for many reasons. First off is innovation. It was the first single to perform very well on the harts and on the radio that was 6 minutes long, as opposed to 3 minutes.More importantly, it was one of the first, and by the far the best example of confessional singer/songwriting, and it may be the best example stream of consciousness in song (though some of Dylan's previous works predated it in this regard). Think of how much more Like A Rolling Stone has to say than it's peers. Second, the song is very influential and inspiring. The opening snare kicked open the door of bruce Springsteen's mind, and every other "The New Bob Dylan"s. Third, it's a very enjoyable listen. I find the instrumentation excellent, especially the jangly electric guitar backing Bob's hard voice.

Also, after reading a lot of what the very big Pet Sounds fans have said, I've decided to listen to the album more, and it might move up from T10 to 5 or 6. It's such a fantastic peice of work.

I think Pet Sounds Is great personally. However I dont feel it is a top 10 album. There no doubt to the influence and beauty of the album, but I think it serves up best as a starter album. And album to love, but one of which opens your eyes to its influences.

I dont think Pet Sounds will remain #1 in about 10 years. I think Radiohead's OK Computer will reign #1, or perhaps VU&N. The indie music scene is the strongest its ever been, and bands like Deerhunter, Yo La Tengo, Grizzly bear, etc all label VU&N as huge influences. We'll see another surge in Velvet Underground popularity soon. A musical movement that will probably be around for a while. The Pet sounds and Beatles era will quiet down for a while if you want my opinion, but they'll be back. Its just time for a change, and VU influenced bands of the like are coming to the forfront.

First of all this is really a Brian Wilson album I don't think Brian Wilson even wrote the lyrics or played the bass on Pet Sounds. I think the Beatles Revolver was more innovative.

The Beatles' ability to marry studio experimentation with a strong pop song structure was more important than VU and Pet Sounds. "Tomorrow Never Knows," which sums up most of where music has gone with all it's pre-recorded loops, sound samples, and that drum beat.

Tomorrow Never Knows is probably the most overrated song of all time. Sure it's "innovative" and fun to listen to a few times, but really... Does it move you? Does it say anything? It seems perfectly designed to live forever on music-nerd message boards, but I'm not sure that it still has any life left outside of places like this.

Paul, I beg to differ on your opinion on "Tomorrow Never Knows" not every song needs to have a message. Music is for listening also it's about having tunes, having a great melody or how you use an instrument. Remember most of the lyrics on Pet Sounds were not even written by Brian Wilson so what's the point anyway.

Overrated is what 8th graders say when they don't like something or how they dismiss something.

The most amazing thing is that this song is 43 years old...and it seems made today.. Frankly everything on Pet Sounds sound of it's time and more related to Phil Spector than to Modern Music. Not that is a criteria for great music. I think Pet Sounds is a great album with great melodies and expansive chord progressions but the inspiration came from Rubber Soul. Pet Sounds is not overrated it's just a very good album.

i can hardly believe in anything being more important, as far as revolutionization is concerned, than the VU. plus i think plenty of songs by the VU hit way harder emotionally than "tomorrow never knows." like "heroin" and "all tomorrows parties"

Enough with VU and this emotional stuff it's about the music. Meet the Beatles or With The Beatles caused a revolution in music. Dylan and McGuinn were both saying the Beatles were heading the direction was going. McGuinn and others went electric just because of the Beatles chord progressions. You think the thousands of cover versions their songs have recieved were based on emotional content. It was the music. That is a revolution.

I understand the Beatles get a lot of credit but let's not reinvent history the Beatles did not cause the British Invasion because of their long hair.

The Beatles from the start were more complicated then their mentors Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, and their friends the Rolling Stones


The Beatles would use Bridge: a song's contrasting section [sometimes called the ‘middle-eight', regardless of the number of actual bars], often beginning in an area other than tonic and usually leading to a dominant transition.

They incorporated classic and world music elements to their songs (which helped the development of prog-rock and baroque pop and art rock.

They experimented in the use of rare metric patterns and song structures (which helped the developoment of prog-rock.

Of course many of these things were done in other genres but not really in pop music or rock music


The Beatles (Rubber Soul) 1965 Brian Wilson cited it as an inspiration for "Pet Sounds."


The self contained rock band had a lot more to with the Beatles establishing it than the Velvet Underground.

"The Beatles were unique at the time as they were truly a "band." Unlike Buddy Holly "and" The Crickets or Bill Haley "and" His Comets, or Little Richard, Elvis, etc., etc. The Motown groups were singers, not musicians. They sang and danced to choreographed moves. The Beatles were "The Beatles." They wrote their songs (their best songs, IMO were better than their covers), they played their instruments. The Beach Boys had hired session players to play instruments they were supposed to play

WTF? I can't say "overrated" at a ratings website without being accused of being 14 years old??

What I meant was that I am tired of hearing people yammer on about the majesty of Tomorrow Never Knows. Frankly, the song now sounds like a gimmick.

It's because it's very clear that modern electronic bands like The Chemical Brothers draw huge inspiration from this.

Yeh saying something is overrated is something you can't really prove. I could easily say the Velvet Underground ARE overrated because I think they made one really great classic album. Then again my opinion does not prove anything. Saying something is overrated is a waste of space because you can't prove it especially when the song influence has been acknowledged by countless musicians. Even Hendrix would play the song live in concert. That's good enough for me.

Yeah, but even though it's unprovable, you'd probably be wrong. They are probably not overrated. They made 4 great albums, 4 albums that were fresh and, to your point about the "music," had great music on them. Are they as influential as the Beatles? Don't know. I can't ask the Clash or Led Zeppelin or Radiohead or Beck or Aerosmith who they were more influenced by.

Well to counter my point on the Velvet Underground. They had substandard vocals, instrumentally most of them were weak, never really sold that well maybe they were not that listenable, and they were not that complicated musically. I don't get them if you compare them to people like Brian Wilson. Believe me many people feel the same way. Really how do you compare the unlistenable "European Son" to most of Pet Sounds.

Couldn't you criticize Bob Dylan the same way? Does an artist have to sell well and have a lot of studio talent to be important and influential?

That is one of the reasons why some people don't like Dylan honestly. Sorry to say that but not everyone loves Dylan. No you don't have to sell a lot of records to be influential. I could say do you need to have a message in a song to be great? What does that have to with the actual music?

Radiohead, Led Zeppelin, Beck, and Aerosmith were easily more influenced by the Beatles than VU. Aerosmith basically formed because of the Beatles and Beck ripped off "Tomorrow Never Knows" on "New Pollution". Radiohead has based at least three songs from the Beatles namely "Karma Police" and "Paraniod Andriod".

The Clash I really don't think they were Beatles fans.

dude, calm down, the beatles are my favorite band. i just think that as far as revolution in sound is concerned, the VU are superior. work as a whole i definately go beatles but i still know that what the VU did on their many classic albums is create a radical approach to rock music which influenced and continues to influence many bands to this day. the beatles are a great band, but they aren't untouchable gods! they are people like you and me.

Why do we have to do this every single time? Someone says something against the Beatles,and then another person has to carefully list all the ways that the Beatles were influential...

The Beatles were not perfect like everyone else but I think VU fans need to realize that their influence does not extend to other genres like pop music or even electronic music. I am not saying VU influence is not great but it's not as big as the Beatles or even Jimi Hendrix their influence extends outside of rock music.

The Beatles approach to experimentation with pop music whether it's psychedelic or avant or even using feedback, backward instrumentation, WORLD MUSIC was even more revolutionary THAN VU IMO that is still felt in popular music to this day. Then there is someone like Joe Meek recording techniques and Frank Zappa who are both very underrated in their extent of influence.

And another thread goes down in flames.

So, what the hell, here’s some gasoline:

Here’s what I’ve never understood about this: the Beatles were, both by consensus and in my opinion, the greatest rock band in history, and probably the most influential. Why on earth would anyone need to resort to insults to defend them against people who point out that, hey, there were some other acts in the sixties who were pretty good and very influential, some of them almost as much as the Beatles?

I’d make a reasoned argument about the influence of VU, or the musicianship of Bob Dylan, or the brilliant arrangements of Mr. Brian Wilson...but really, what would be the point? This isn’t a discussion any more, this is "my dad can beat up your dad" (no reflection on you, Frank—it was an interesting thread at the beginning.)

Let’s go away for awhile.

When I read your paragraph, I was coincidentally listenign to European Son. I think the song is nothing less than a masterpiece. Yeah Revolver is probably the greatest album of al time, and The Beatles are certainly the greatest artist, but the Velvet Underground are breath taking. The Stooges, David Bowie, The Ramones, The Clash, post-punk, college rock, grunge, britpop, garage rock, indie-rock, and freak-folk all draw tremendous amounts from Reed and Cale's free-form experiments with sound. They were the first to give rock'n'roll a skeleton seperate from the gospel/blues hybridization that it existed as previously.

Also, the VU have four amazing albums. They never cut a bad one, and each of them have their own distinct features

Loaded - Mainstream classic rock album

The Velvet Underground - Soft music, continued
exploration of taboo themes

White Light/White Heat - Bliding noise that melts anything resembling melody

The Velvet Underground and Nico - Masterpiece, greatest album ever, etc

sunday morning is a pop song if i ever heard one

but whatever, agree to disagree.