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Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

How is this a good list? It's topped and tailed by Filter Creative Group clients. It shouldn't even count to be honest.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

All very samey. They have that indie-(post-)rock bug.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

Maybe so spaceboy, but name me 3 mainstream acts that were as good this year.

It's less a bias than it is an indication that indie and post-rock are where it's at now.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

no, it's assuredly a bias

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

I didn't say it wasn't a bias. I said it was "less a bias." Because it is also a fact that indie music consistently has better quality. This has been true since the 1980s (I can name about 50 alternative albums from that decade off the top of my head that are better than Joshua Tree, Sign O' The Times, and Thriller). However, it's also true that many mags and sites, for that reason, are biased towards indie music and don't give the mainstream enough due. That's all I meant.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

labels like "Indii" or "NeWarg" giveth netjade lots of not.so.nottrendy livercancerImmediateShieldsFrogs... plus proudovolilly since 19.9.1!!... amygrantednbranded__ and lots of pumpkin werewolves, too.,,

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

a fact? please. now you're just being silly. as if there's just indie and mainstream? gah, and what is indie and which is which and and and???!!!!!!?!?! oh my poor brain


i can only think of about 20 or 30 albums ever recorded that are better than sign o the times or thriller. they're pretty good records.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

As to the indie vs. mainstream "bias"...

I looked at this year's list (as it stands now) and in the top 10, there are only three acts that are what I would call "mainstream" - Nick Cave, Portishead, and Kings of Leon. Glance further on down the list and you'll find Lil Wayne, Metallica, Duffy and Coldplay in the 15-20 range. The rest are all "indie" though some would disagree with calling Death Cab or Santogold "indie".

I think that there isn't any bias for or against the mainstream in this case. There are definitely more "indie" records being put out that mainstream hit records, and there can only be so many #1 albums that conquer both the popular and critical worlds. If there is, it will even out cause AM has so many lists. Q, it seemed to me, went all mainstream, while Rough Trade went all indie. They'll cancel each other out. If an album is truly great, any rock mag worth your while will cover it.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

There's obviously a huge gray area and I'm not even keen in using those terms. The only reason I did was to continue the terminology of your original post. I personally don't distinguish clearly between "indie" and "pop" or listen to music thinking that I'm listening to something "more mainstream" or "less." As far as I can see, most mainstream acts started indie anyway. Plenty of 'em stay artistically true after they break into the mainstream. So there is a gray area, true.

I think where I was going with my previous post(s) is that this list isn't that biased towards any particular "indie"-ness. Fleet Foxes, Bon Iver, and M83 certainly have the potential to break into the mainstream later on anyway. Their records were good no matter the criteria.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

Thus, by indie music consistently having better quality, I didn't mean to further the stigma of the term "indie" or to place a definition on it. I mostly meant the qualities of sound, experimentation, lyrics, and production. Hell, I consider Neil Young's Tonight's The Night non-mainstream even though all of his albums were for a major label. By "indie" I just meant "non-mainstream." The SOUND of indie, not literally indie.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

How is this a good list? It's topped and tailed by Filter Creative Group clients. It shouldn't even count to be honest.

Mitchell, please give examples (based on this list) that Filter magazine doesn't operate independently from Filter Creative Group.

Re: EOY 2008. FILTER

Well to me the who magazine comes across as just a subtle way of furthering their clients, I know they are meant to be operational independent but I'm not so sure. MGMT are doing pretty well on other list but at first that did look an odd #1, Dears are only one other list. I'm sure editorial influence comes from all directions on lists but for this one it was definitely a case of "Big surprise there" when I saw it.