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HOA: 1971 voting thread


Seems like I've heard that there's another election going on this week...I implore all US citizens on this Forum to participate in the presidential election (I voted early). As everyone here must know, this one is monumental--we'll be telling our grandkids about what happened on November 4, 2008. Get out there and vote!

Out of curiosity, I ask those of you outside the US: will you be interested to see what the wacky Americans do on Tuesday?

And, for those who can't get enough of voting, I now return you to the 1971 HOA voting thread...

Select the ten most deserving artists, based on records released through the end of 1968.

When considering your vote, you may want to check out the top 50 eligible candidates. For a reminder of who’s already been inducted, see the results thread.

For your ballot to be eligible, you must submit a ranked list of your ten most deserving artists.

Also, for your top FIVE artists (at least), you must explain why they deserve to be in the HOA. You may recycle your comments from past elections if you wish, but I want us to have a context for WHY we're selecting these artists. Ballots without comments for the top five will NOT be counted!

In addition, you may nominate up to three people for the Backstage Wing. This is optional; your ballot will still be eligible even if you don’t vote for Backstage candidates.

Deadline for ballots is Sunday, November 9, at 6:00 pm US Central time (midnight GMT).

Voting is now open.

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

This is not a vote. This is discussion.

In my opinion, the biggest "flaw" in the AM 3000, which really is not a flaw in the AM 3000 method, but in the critics themselves, is the lack of respect for country music. While it is not as popular internationally as rock and jazz, country music is an important musical tradition in the United States and has had a major effect on the rock music that so much of us love.

The reason for the lack of respect for country music, I think, are (1) that it was perceived by liberal critics having a 1960's mindset to be politically right wing (which is not entirely true) and (2) it is a singles dominated genre. In the 1960's, when the Beatles and other acts were releasing classic "albums", the major country stars like George Jones and Merle Haggard were churning out multiple LPS per year, chock full of great songs, but not true "albums" in the modern sense.

My best evidence that country music is unjustifiably slighted by the AM 3000 is Merle Haggard. Within the world of country music, he is a giant on the level of Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, and other underrated giants like Willie Nelson and George Jones. Considering his wealth of great compositions (Swinging Doors, Bottle Let Me Down, Mama Tried, I Threw Away The Rose, Okie From Muskogee, Branded Man, Silver Wings, White Line Fever, Workin' Man Blues, Big City, Kern River), it's amazing that he only ranks 788.

So, if you are a fan of country music, consider voting for Merle and George. If you are not a fan of country music becaue of its low ranking in the AM 3000, you maybe should reconsider.

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

Paul, I agree with you for the most part (and will continue to vote for Merle, if not George).

Besides the two factors you adduce for the low standing of country among rock critics, I'd add two more:

3) Race. For about three decades, from the blues revival of the sixties to the No Depression era of the nineties, no hipster worth his salt could get behind music so strongly associated with white guys (this also folds into the political argument, of course).

4) Bad timing. Mainstream country became overwhelmingly formulaic and unimaginative about 25-30 years ago (with some exceptions, natch), just as rock criticism was having its second major expansion in the post-punk era. To be overly glib about it: if you wrote for your college newspaper in 1983, the contest between the Minutemen and the Oak Ridge Boys was a no-brainer.

I'm not endorsing these positions, just trying to account for country's low standing compared to rock's other close relatives.

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

5) Outside the USA, this music is perceived as a very domestic style and suffer from the same political and intellectual prejudices. In France, where there is a strong anti-American feeling among the intelligentsia (which of course I disapprove) country music is seen as rednecks' music, while the blues has a much better press.

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

surveys in Europe give more than 80 % for Obama.
I took part in it and was among the 80 %. Seen from France, Obama stands for political change.
And I "voted" Obama because Bruce Springsteen told me so

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

1.Led Zeppelin : they JUST are the biggest group at the moment.

2.Leadbelly : because I still think he was a major influence for several generations

3.Van Morrison : He just had released his second major album

4.Georges Brassens : I've just learnt that georges loved rock'n roll, Elvis and the Beatles

5.Neil Young : Already 2 masterpieces behind him, and it's just begun (contrary to Van the Man)

6.Doc Watson
7.The Doors
8.Merle Haggard : I'm listening to a best of, I love this guy. If he's not inducted this year, I bet he'll be higher next round in my list.
9.The Stooges
10.Django Reinhardt

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

At the risk of painting with too broad of a brush, I'd say that mainstream country music has been almost uniformly lousy since about 1980.

Generally speaking, the highest ranking songs on AM tend to have mainstream appeal. So we basically have an entire genre checking out of the competition for the last 30 years. Most of the "good stuff" I am trying to rally behind was released in the 1960s.

I don't have time to address the cultural/political issues related to country music, but it is something that merits further consideration. While some of the music may be "red-necky," much of it is very intelligent and progressive. I think it's time for a re-evaluation.

(Nicolas, I'm sending some mp3s your way.)

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

I'm surprised Obama was so low in France. I would have guessed 95%.

I'll stick my neck out an predict a landslide victory for Mr. Obama here in the US. (But I'm still voting just to be on the safe side!)

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

To tie together the two themes of this thread so far...

Obama's main campaign theme song: "Signed, Sealed, Delivered" by Stevie Wonder.

McCain's main campaign theme song: "Raisin' McCain" by John Rich.

I'm not gonna be so facile as to say this explains both why Obama (likely... knock wood) will win and why Country is so unrespected by critics, but it does make you wonder.

(Yes, I know that comparing Stevie Wonder with John Rich is like comparing Johnny Cash with Al B. Sure!)

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

I support both Obama and Merle!

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

Well, I took my figures from a site called vote for president
It's a site on which every person from outside the Us can vote
More than 43 000 people have voted
result : 87% for Obama
In France : 91 % (I cheated, I voted twice from my job and home computer. Let us say the second vote was on behalf of my wife !!)

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

Gallup did an international poll, which is probably more scientific than a self-selecting web-site. They had Obama beating McCain in France 64% to 4%, with 32% responding "Don't know" or refusing to answer.

Not surprisingly, the highest support for Obama internationally was in Kenya, at 89%. The highest countries of support for McCain were Madagascar and Philippines, at 28%. Maybe because they're island nations, they like an ex- Navy guy.

I was listneing to some Parliament this weekend, completely forgetting about their classic "Chocolate City." Somehow it had slipped my mind throughout this campaign year. I remember being very amused by it for a long time, but now it may actually come to pass. "They still call it the White House but that's a temporary condition, too. Can you dig it CC?"

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

1. Leonard Cohen
2. Merle Haggard
3. George Jones
4. Neil Young - two great albums already
5. Van Morrison

6. Woody Guthrie
7. Grateful Dead
8. Townes Van Zandt
9. Flying Burrito Brothers
10. Dusty Springfield

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

1. MERLE HAGGARD - Head and shoulders above the rest this week (because I am ignoring Led Zeppelin). Great songwriter.

2. NICK DRAKE - Another great songwriter and mood maker. 2/3 brilliant albums now in the barn.

3. MARVIN GAYE - Great vocalist. Motown's brightest star (along with Stevie Wonder)

4. THE TEMPTATIONS - A fabulous group with some of the all-time great pop singles. Papa Was A Rolling Stone anybody?

5. THE ZOMBIES - Criminally underrated 60's pop artists. Responsible for some real gems, She's Not There among them.

6. NEIL YOUNG - Still much to come, but deserves strong consideration for what he's released already.

7. THE FLYING BURRITO BROTHERS - One brilliant, ground-breaking album.

8. TOWNES VAN ZANDT - One brilliant, ground-breaking album (his third release).

9. PATSY CLINE - I like her a lot.

10. GEORGE JONES - I like him a lot.

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

1. Led Zeppelin - I'm not ignoring them. Plant/Page is one of the greatest combinations in rock history.

2. Frank Zappa / Mothers of Invention - Rock gave us many intelligent musicians, but only one could be called a true genius.

3. Van Morrison - Astral Weeks alone didn't get him in, but Moondance should do the trick. Two fantastic albums can't be ignored.

4. Charlie Parker - Greatest jazz artist not inducted. Shouldn't be forgotten.

5. Marvin Gaye - One of my all-time favorites. Probably my nr 1 next year.

6. Neil Young
7. Leadbelly
8. Leonard Cohen
9. The Stooges
10. The Doors

Backstage Wing
1. John Hammond
2. George Gershwin
3. Alan Lomax

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

What a year for Neil Young. Puts out two great albums, one of them my #4 album of all time. The other with a separately listed artist.

1. Django Reinhardt - I'm not giving up on Django. Anyone see "Sweet and Lowdown"? Emmet Ray knows who should be #1.

2. The Impressions -- (Repeat comment from last week) Let's not forget how deeply, stirringly souful their mid-60's work was.

3. Charlie Parker - (Repeat comment from last week) His innovations on sax made him an icon, no less than Jimi on electric guitar.

4. Neil Young - I've decided I'm going to prop up longer standing artists. But "After the Goldrush" gets him a top-5 vote any year.

5. Stevie Wonder -- He added "Signed, Sealed, Delivered," "Never Had a Dream Come True," and "Heaven Help Us All" to his run of singles.

6. The Supremes

7. Crosby, Stills, Nash (& Young) - Surpassing partial progenitor Buffalo Springfield... I'm a sucker for this kind of harmony.

8. The Temptations

9. Patsy Cline

10. The Jackson 5 - A great cluster of singles the last two years.

Definitely was thinking about the Grateful Dead. (They'll break through soon enough - I'm not a Deadhead, but I ain't no snob about them either. The fact is they wrote some very good songs.) And don't worry, Led Zep will get a vote next year if they don't get voted in this year.

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

Forgot my backstagers...

1. George Gershwin
2. Alan Lomax
3. Irving Berlin

And was 4 Motown artists on my list overkill? Perhaps...

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

oh, backstage

1. Alan Lomax
2. Hoagy Carmichael
3. George Gershwin

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

1. VAN MORRISON. Just no question about this one. In most circumstances, I’d rather hear Moondance than Astral Weeks, even though I recognize that the earlier album is probably the greater musical accomplishment.

2. MERLE HAGGARD. The finest country artist of the 1960’s. Back here in the real time of 2008, I hear he’s having some pretty serious health problems; get well soon, Merle.

3. NEIL YOUNG. I thought about pushing him ahead of Merle, but Neil's career will continue to thrive for a long, long time, so I decided to err on the side of caution.

4. FRANK ZAPPA/THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION. But no Beefheart. I’ve been bitten by the Zappa bug only recently; maybe I’ll learn to love his protégé one of these days.

5. THE STOOGES. The Hives owe them their career.

8. MC5


Some thoughts on some artists who are NOT on my ballot:

I am not ignoring Led Zeppelin; I am actively voting against them.

(Regarding the other thread, I'll take Page over Clapton...but Jack Bruce's rant is probably best dealt with by ignoring it.)

It is astonishing that nobody’s voting for Lennon.

And Paul, I’ve felt for some time like I owe you an apology for not finding space for Patsy Cline on my ballot…I love Patsy, and she’s been bubbling somewhere between 11 and 15 on my list for “years” now. New artists keep passing her, though…maybe some time in the mid 1970s (remind me if I forget!).




Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

Schleuse - Glad to see the Patsy vote. I was about to give up on her, but then I listened to an ablum and decided to give it one more shot.

"Ignoring" Led Zeppelin is my euphemistic way of voting against them. But something tells me they will do OK without my help. (Just don't let them get too close to Willie Dixon!)

1. Gershwin
2. Lomax
3. John Hammond

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

1 – Nick Drake : Five Leaves Left is one of the finest albums ever, just perfectly crafted… Largely enough to justify induction.

2 - Black Sabbath : I guess it will be a long long fight to get them inducted ! but honestly, who else here can claim to have created a genre with 2 albums which have never been topped 40 years later

3 - Boby Lapointe : never serious, always witty, deeper than you might think

4 – The Stooges : Ugly, Filthy, Sexy, Dazed and Confused, they already created classics and one of the greatest rock icon but also dared to make a quite experimental second album

5 – MC5 : right now, right now, it's time to kick out the hall of fame motherfucker ! Nearly as raw as the Stooges with the benefit of political engagement

6 – The Sonics
7 - The Zombies
8 – Marvin Gaye
9 – King Crimson
10 - The Jackson 5

Impressive how the Doors seems totally ignored by our forum !

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

1. Led Zeppelin – Probably the single most influential band, for good and ill, of the last 40 years.
2. Van Morrison – Still has a long career ahead of him, but as of ’70 he’s released the single most perfect album he will ever make, so he already deserves this.
3. Neil Young – See #2.
4. The Stooges – On their first album, invented punk almost singlehandedly; on their second, invented … whatever the hell THAT was. No one’s touched it to this day.
5. The Supremes – The window is getting short for them to make it in.
6. Nick Drake
7. Cream
8. Ornette Coleman
9. Sonny Rollins
10. Bill Evans

1. Jann Wenner
2. Rudy Van Gelder
3. George Gershwin

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

So this is really a “voting” thread, isn’t it? But, who’s that president Obama that you’re talking about. The president of USA right now is Richard Nixon. What, a black man president of the USA? Are you kidding, aren’t you? I wish this could be true, but it couldn’t. Not even in 35 years! What? It will happen in November 2008? Are you sure? Nah…

01. VAN MORRISON: from Belfast to the mystic. He has kept the rhythm & blues influences coming with his period as the leader of Irish band Them but he has developed a very own style, with deeply spiritual and emotional songs delivered with his particular fierce and captivating singing. With two peaks, the free-form and impressionistic “Astral Weeks” (1968) and the delicate and evocative “Moondance” (1970), his music has healing effects, a sound for sore ears.
My favourite album: Moondance (1970).
My Top 5 Songs: Into the Mystic (1970), Brown Eyed Girl (1967), The Way Young Lovers Do (196 , Crazy Love (1970), Madame George (196 .

02. KING CRIMSON: progressive. This English band is one of the most prominent names of a scene that is transforming the psychedelic pop of the past decade, introducing elements from free-jazz and classical music and creating a groundbreaking sound that (probably) will define the sound of the new decade.
My favourite album: In the Court of the Crimson King (1969).
My Top 3 Songs: Cadence and Cascade (1970), 21st Century Schizoid Man (*) (1969), Epitaph (1969).

03. CROSBY, STILLS, NASH & YOUNG: a new concept for a band, four singer-songwriters joining forces without renouncing to their solo careers. And they maintain the cohesion with their tight harmony vocals, their compromise with the current times and… their talents.
My favourite album: Déjà Vu (1970).
My Top 3 Songs: Our House (1970), Helpless (1970), Suite Judy Blue Eyes (1969).

04. LEONARD COHEN: he shows us how to look among the garbage and the flowers.

05. NICK DRAKE: the ever tortured artist, a song-writer capable of create songs of disturbing beauty and a singer able to permeate all his compositions with an endless sadness.
My favourite album: Bryter Layter (1970).
My Top 3 Songs: River Man (1969), Poor Boy (1970), Northern Sky (1970).


And at the backstage:
02. JOE BOYD: an American in London. Brilliant producer of psychedelic bands (Soft Machine or Pink Floyd) and especially of the best artists of British folk: Fairport Convention, Incredible String Band, Nick Drake, Vashti Bunyan, John Martyn or Maria Muldaur. Favourite song: INCREDIBLE STRING BAND The Half-Remarkable Question (196 .
03. GEORGE GERSHWIN: returning to my ballot seeing the increased love in other ballots.

Re: HOA: 1971 voting thread

1. The Stooges- First album- Cutting edge, Second- Defined a genre.

2. The Monkees- How are the Monkees not on that top 50 list? More of the Monkees and Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Jones came out in '67 (Headquarters as well, but that's not as great as those two). The only thing essential that's missing is Valleri. EDIT: And now Head is out too. It would be a shame if they don't make it in.

3. The Zombies- One of the greatest albums ever and a few other singles should put them in right now... I'm sure they'll get in later if not now.

4. Pink Floyd- The only album needed to get them in has been released. There's some good stuff on Saucerful of Secrets too and add in those early singles. This is the band that deserves to be enshrined.

5. Black Sabbath- See "The Stooges"

6. Herman's Hermits- One of my favorite singles bands from the 60's. Pick up a greatest hits and you'll realize how good of a pop band they really were especially if you're an early-mid years Beatles fan.

7. Neil Diamond
8. Donovan
9. The Hollies
10. The Bee Gees

Reminders for later years: Harry Nilsson, Art Blakey, Nico, Cream, The Doors, Phil Ochs, The Turtles, Led Zeppelin, Nick Drake, Lovin Spoonful, John Lennon, The Supremes, Paul McCartney, Bill Fay, Cat Stevens, Funkadelic, The Groundhogs, Alice Coltrane