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At long last, the discussion thread for the 1966 election. And the top 50 candidates are…
HALL OF ACCLAIM: TOP 50 CANDIDATES FOR 1966 ELECTION
Only releases through December 31, 1965 included.
1965 releases indicated with an asterisk.
1. THE ROLLING STONES
ALBUMS: The Rolling Stones (398); 12x5 (1339); No. 2/The Rolling Stones Now! (605)*; Out of Our Heads (672)*; December’s Children (And Everybody’s) (1942)*.
SONGS: Little Red Rooster (2202); The Last Time (632)*; Play with Fire (1931)*; (I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction (2)*; That’s How Strong My Love Is (1958)*; Get Off My Cloud (1225)*.
2. CHARLES MINGUS
ALBUMS: Jazz at Massey Hall (514); Pithecanthropus Erectus (748); Blues and Roots (782); Mingus Ah Um (384); Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus (935); The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady (347).
SONG: Track C - Group Dancers (2411).
3. THELONIOUS MONK
ALBUMS: Genius of Modern Music, Vol. 1 (458); Genius of Modern Music, Vol. 2 (714); Brilliant Corners (429); Thelonious Monk with John Coltrane (733); Monk’s Music (1014); Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers with Thelonious Monk (1528).
SONG: Round Midnight (342).
4. THE WHO
ALBUM: The Who Sings My Generation (232)*.
SONGS: I Can’t Explain (202)*; My Generation (13)*; The Kids Are Alright (1047)*.
5. THE BYRDS
ALBUMS: Mr. Tambourine Man (267)*; Turn! Turn! Turn! (1356)*.
SONGS: Mr. Tambourine Man (31)*; I’ll Feel a Whole Lot Better (1208)*; Turn! Turn! Turn! (692)*.
6. SONNY ROLLINS
ALBUMS: Tenor Madness (1104); Saxophone Colossus (370); Way Out West (891); Night at the Village Vanguard, Vol. 1 (1021); Night at the Village Vanguard, Vol. 2 (1150); The Bridge (1158).
SONG: St. Thomas (2551).
7. SMOKEY ROBINSON AND THE MIRACLES
ALBUM: Going to a Go-Go (869)*.
SONGS: Shop Around (984); I’ll Try Something New (2789); You’ve Really Got a Hold on Me (523); Oooh, Baby Baby (1315)*; The Tracks of My Tears (39)*; Going to a Go-Go (1179)*.
8. ORNETTE COLEMAN
ALBUMS: Something Else!!! (1861); The Shape of Jazz to Come (315); Change of the Century (762); Free Jazz: A Collective Improvisation (501); This Is Our Music (1688); Ornette on Tenor (1921).
9. ELLA FITZGERALD
ALBUMS: Sings the Cole Porter Songbook, Vol. 1 (617); Sings the Rodgers and Hart Songbook, Vol. 1 (888); Ella and Louis (1370); Porgy and Bess (1373); Sings the Duke Ellington Songbook, Vol. 1 (1319); Sings the George and Ira Gershwin Songbook (875).
SONG: A-Tisket, A-Tasket (1097).
10. OTIS REDDING
ALBUMS: Pain in My Heart (2880); The Great Otis Redding Sings Soul Ballads (2448)*; Otis Blue: Otis Redding Sings Soul (56)*.
SONGS: I’ve Been Loving You Too Long (453)*; Respect (2590)*; My Girl (3000)*.
11. HOWLIN’ WOLF
ALBUM: Moanin’ in the Moonlight (551); Howlin’ Wolf (402).
SONG: Smokestack Lightnin’ (367); Wang Dang Doodle (2561); Back Door Man (2460); Spoonful (1247).
12. STAN GETZ
ALBUMS: Hamp & Getz (2186); Stan Getz and J.J. Johnson at the Opera House (2614); Focus (1769); Jazz Samba (818); Getz/Gilberto (394).
SONGS: The Girl from Ipanema (538); Corcovado (2078).
13. BILL EVANS
ALBUMS: Everybody Digs Bill Evans (1659); Portrait in Jazz (1689); Explorations (2257); Sunday at the Village Vanguard (479); Waltz for Debby (496); Undercurrent (2306).
SONG: Waltz for Debby (2639).
14. COUNT BASIE
ALBUMS: Count Basie Swings, Joe Williams Sings (1310); April in Paris (1000); At Newport (1447); The Atomic Mr. Basie (657).
SONGS: One O’Clock Jump (865); Lester Leaps In (2182); April in Paris (1447).
15. THE RONETTES
ALBUMS: Presenting the Fabulous Ronettes Featuring Veronica (1497).
SONGS: Be My Baby (12); Baby, I Love You (2461); Walking in the Rain (2535).
16. THE DRIFTERS
SONGS: Money Honey (921); There Goes My Baby (269); Save the Last Dance for Me (670); Up on the Roof (870); On Broadway (894); Under the Boardwalk (1456).
17. DIZZY GILLESPIE
ALBUMS: Bird & Diz (1644); Jazz at Massey Hall (514); Dizzy Gillespie with Roy Eldridge (1572); Groovin’ High (1547); Birk’s Works (2360); At Newport (2130).
SONGS: Groovin’ High (2672); A Night in Tunisia (2463); Manteca (1168).
18. FATS DOMINO
ALBUMS: Rock and Rollin’ with Fats Domino (1416); This Is Fats Domino! (2457); The Fabulous Mr. D (2295).
SONGS: Ain’t That a Shame (600); Blueberry Hill (213); Blue Monday (1803); I’m Walkin’ (2168); Walking to New Orleans (1921).
19. THE KINKS
SONGS: You Really Got Me (17); All Day and All of the Night (876).
20. ERIC DOLPHY
ALBUMS: Outward Bound (1943); Out There (1783); Live at the Five Spot, Vol. 1 (1834); Far Cry (2416); Iron Man (2297); Out to Lunch (300).
21. PATSY CLINE
SONGS: Walkin’ After Midnight (1407); Crazy (146); I Fall to Pieces (415); She’s Got You (1626); Sweet Dreams (of You).
22. B.B. KING
ALBUMS: Singin’ the Blues (2483); Live at the Regal (1965)*.
SONG: Sweet Little Angel (2758).
23. THE KINGSMEN
SONG: Louie Louie (11).
24. THE CRYSTALS
SONGS: He’s a Rebel (308); He’s Sure the Boy I Love (2494); Da Doo Ron Ron (169); Then He Kissed Me (972).
25. ART BLAKEY
ALBUMS: A Night at Birdland Vol. 1 (1236); A Night at Birdland Vol. 2 (2296); Moanin’ (781); Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers with Thelonious Monk (1528); A Night in Tunisia (1787); Free for All (2068).
26. CHARLIE PARKER
ALBUMS: Charlie Parker with Strings (1735); Bird & Diz (1644); Jazz at Massey Hall (514).
SONGS: Koko (768); Ornithology (2456).
27. MARTHA AND THE VANDELLAS
SONGS: Heatwave (655); Dancing in the Street (53).
28. THE RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS
SONGS: Little Latin Lupe Lu (2589); You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feelin’ (24).
29. BEN E. KING
SONGS: Spanish Harlem (583); Stand by Me (67).
30. BUD POWELL
ALBUMS: The Amazing Bud Powell Vol. 1 (792); Jazz at Massey Hall (514); The Amazing Bud Powell Vol. 2 (2905).
SONG: Un Poco Loco (1616).
31. WOODY GUTHRIE
ALBUM: Dust Bowl Ballads (607).
SONG: This Land Is Your Land (163).
ALBUM: (The Angry Young) Them/Here Comes the Night (803)*.
SONG: Gloria (116).
SONGS: I Wonder Why (819); A Teenager in Love (748); Runaround Sue (321); The Wanderer (1405).
34. BILL HALEY AND HIS COMETS
ALBUM: Rock Around the Clock (2042).
SONG: (We’re Gonna) Rock Around the Clock (45).
35. THE TEMPTATIONS
ALBUMS: Meet the Temptations (2847); The Temptations Sing Smokey (1113)*.
SONG: My Girl (106).
36. THE IMPRESSIONS
ALBUMS: Keep on Pushing (2636); People Get Ready (1325)*.
SONGS: Gypsy Woman (2008); I’m So Proud (2736); People Get Ready (138)*.
37. DAVE BRUBECK
ALBUMS: Jazz Goes to College (2843); Time Out (324).
SONG: Take Five (730).
38. BOOKER T. & THE MG’S
ALBUM: Green Onions (1368).
SONG: Green Onions (87).
39. HERBIE HANCOCK
ALBUMS: Takin’ Off (1523); Empyrean Isles (1535); Maiden Voyage (483)*.
40. EDDIE COCHRAN
SONGS: Summertime Blues (79); C’mon Everybody (1210).
41. DEL SHANNON
SONGS: Runaway (77); Hats off to Larry (1809); Keep Searchin’ (2265).
42. THE SUPREMES
ALBUM: Where Did Our Love Go (1984).
SONGS: Where Did Our Love Go (211); Baby Love (718).
43. BIG JOE TURNER
ALBUM: The Boss of the Blues (1094).
SONG: Shake, Rattle and Roll (151).
44. THE SHIRELLES
SONGS: Dedicated to the One I Love (1784); Tonight’s the Night (1815); Will You Love Me Tomorrow (98).
45. BENNY GOODMAN
ALBUM: The Famous 1938 Carnegie Hall Concert (513).
SONGS: Sing, Sing, Sing (724); Solo Flight (2007).
46. MAX ROACH
ALBUMS: Daahoud/Clifford Brown & Max Roach (1229); Study in Brown (1979); At Basin Street (2209); Max Roach Plus Four (2438); We Insist! Freedom Now Suite (1288); Money Jungle (1268).
47. THE ANIMALS
ALBUM: The Animals (2877).
SONG: House of the Rising Sun (62).
48. RITCHIE VALENS
SONGS: Donna (788); La Bamba (152).
49. BOBBY BLAND
ALBUM: Two Steps from the Blues (399).
SONG: Further Up the Road (2002); I Pity the Fool (2659); Turn on Your Love Light (1955).
50. GENE VINCENT
ALBUM: Gene Vincent and His Blue Caps (1743).
SONG: Be Bop a Lula (125).
46. THE SHANGRI-LA’S
SONGS: Remember (Walking in the Sand) (780); Leader of the Pack (299); Give Him a Great Big Kiss (1533).
47. SARAH VAUGHAN
ALBUMS: Images/Swingin’ Easy (1298); Sarah Vaughan with Clifford Brown (743); In the Land of Hifi (2239); After Hours (2710).
48. HORACE SILVER
ALBUMS: Horace Silver and the Jazz Messengers (1275); Blowin’ the Blues Away (1974); Song for My Father (758).
49. CARL PERKINS
SONGS: Blue Suede Shoes (75); Honey Don’t (2859).
50. THE COASTERS
SONGS: Searchin’ (1570); Young Blood (979); Yakety Yak (262).
MOVING UP: The Rolling Stones.
NEW TO THE LIST: The Who, The Byrds, Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, Otis Redding, B.B. King, Them, The Temptations, The Impressions, Herbie Hancock.
FELL OFF THE LIST: The Shangri-La’s, Sarah Vaughan, Horace Silver, Carl Perkins, The Coasters.
BUBBLING UNDER: Sun Ra, Dionne Warwick, The Platters, Wes Montgomery, Johnny Burnette.
(Take a gander at that: only one artist moved up the list—but it’s the Stones, who jump 31 spots to land at #1…and nine artists jump onto the list, four of them in the top ten.)
Voting begins September 23. Discussion begins now.
At this point in time, the amount of great music from bands like The Who and The Stones pales in comparison to Monk and Mingus (both pillars in the jazz world, for whatever that is worth).
First off, I suppose I must apologize to all Mingus (and Sonny Rollins and Ornette Coleman) fans. I am sure that if I gave them the listens they deserve, the Shangri-Las never would have made my list. I can only vote based on my knowledge. It's expanding as much as someone with a full-time job (which allows me to sound off on this board, but not to listen to music during work hours) and three young children will allow.
Now, this year really brings the rock and soul explosion to the forefront. I listened to the Kink Kontroversy this weekend for the first time. They really are going to have to wait until next year. I thought it was a pretty disappointing album. None of the verve of their '64 singles (except maybe the opening cover of Milk Cow Blues), none of the songwriting spark to come.
The Who on the other hand, are in with a shot. On top of I Can't Explain, My Generation, and The Kids Are Alright (all excellent), they also have released "Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere" (great) and "A Legal Matter" (good). I'm fairly sure those are enough to make my top-10.
The Stones don't make it yet. Hearrt of Stone and Satisfaction are good, but they don't raise their level until next year (with Aftermath, Under My Thumb, 19th Nervous Breakdown, Mother's Little Helper).
The Byrds are somewhat tempting. I've never been a huge fan, but they've got a new exciting sound, and ave released the excellent "I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better." I don't think that's enough, particularly with the crop of soul/R&B artists popping up. Their resume gets padded in the next number of years, but will fight to break through.
The best action is in the Soul/R&B arena. In the Motown bucket:
- Smokey Robinson and The Miracles had a great year.
- I looked at the Temptations discography, and they are slow and steady. They're not worthy of a top-10 vote yet, but will be later after they've accumulated more work.
- The Four Tops I've never been a huge fan of. Levi Stubbs has an amazing voice (but he's no Smokey), and their four big hits are monsters (three of which are already out: Baby I Need Your Loving, I Can't Help Myself, It's the Same Old Song). But they never had the beutiful harmonies that the Temptations did.
- The Supremes, if they get a vote, must wait for next year and "You Keep Me Hangin On" and "You Keep Me Hanging On"
Above and beyond these Motown greats, though, we have two major breakthroughs: Otis Redding and the Impressions. The former is, for me, a shoe-in. It's not just the number of great songs, along with an absolute classic album in Otis Blue. (The three AM-listed songs give his body of work short shrift. Consider: "These Arms of Mine," "That's How Strong My Love Is," "Come to Me," "Mr. Pitiful," "Pain In My Heart," "I Can't Turn You Loose," "Ole Man Trouble," "Shake," "Satisfaction" (with the Stax horns doing that famous riff better than Keith himself).) He might have had half the hits at this point, and the greatness of his voice and talent would lift him higher.
The Impressions are perhaps a closer call. They have some beautiful songs up to this point. As songs and recordings, they are not groundbreaking... with the exception of the underrated "You've Been Cheatin'" it's all very pre-Motown and Stax (not a bad thing necessarily), but lovely (of course, it's Curtis singing). But the importance of People Get Ready and Keep On Pushing - the marriage of that loveliness with that self-consciousness - is wonderous.
In the same vein... it's too early to consider them but the Staple Singers are doing some amazing stuff at this time. In some ways Pops and Curtis are moving to a very similar place from opposite directions. At this point (as I understand it... I'm not too familiar with their gospel work), they have aready done some amazing work combinng scintilating harmonies with Pops' guitar. Now their starting to go in a controversial direction for a gospel group... toward social justice.
Speaking of gospel, there was a very brief consideration of Mahalia Jackson the first week. I'll be honest. I don't know her at all. Anyone thinking of going back to her?
Finally, I've decided that I've given Fats Domino short shrift, and I'll re-consider him.
For those using reality based voting, The Who were virtually unkown at the end of 1965, especially in the USA. They were just a local British band with one album. There is no way they would have been voted into any music hall of fame in the mid 1960s. Seems highly unlikely that the Stones would either.
I really enjoy the HOA game, but I'm worried that it's not really catching on.
The thread on Time's top 100 albums has had 1441 views in a day. By contrast, this one has had only 109. The voting thread only 26. The HW plaque only 15.
I'm not dogging the HOA, just wishing more were interested. Maybe it's all the old music?
I've been thinking the same thing, Paul. And I'm sad to say I feel I've been losing some interest in the game myself. I didn't even vote last round.
Could it be that it's a bit slow moving? Should the discussion and the voting have taken place the same week?
Yeah, I've been concerned about it, too--the small number of views was definitely a tipoff (although that Time list has been around for nearly 2 years, your point holds, Paul).
And the plaques so far seem to sink down the main forum page like they're weighted with box sets.
Especially considering that we've finally gotten to 1966, a year when I thought interest would start to increase, I'm willing to take suggestions for how to sexy up the HOA. Rune, you may very well be right about the 2-week election cycle being too long--the discussion threads don't garner a lot of traffic, making for a fairly dead-seeming week between elections, so perhaps we should pick up the pace a bit (maybe starting with the 1967 election on Tuesday?).
These forums have died off a lot in general lately. Maybe are people have become tired of lists and votes. We should stick to one game like this at a time (making this one the priority right now) to maybe bring some people back to the forums. Shortening it to one week a piece seems like a good idea as well.
It would be nice to see some discussion brought back to the boards. It seems we've been lacking that lately and it's been replaced by top 10 lists and ranking. Just my opinion. I still love the boards.
Ah. I read "last post" as "first post" which explains my confusion regarding the Time list.
I think we should pick up the pace by combining the discussion and voting into one week and one thread in which voters could feel free to discuss and/or vote as desired.
Another problem may be the predictability of the whole thing. I know the Who and the Kinks and the Stones and all the popular rock bands are going to make it. What's fun for me is trying to squeeze non-rockers like Bill Monroe and Thelonious Monk into the hall.
I agree that a more compressed voting and discussion schedule may help matters. And I agree with Paul that the fun of the game is trying to shoehorn in interesting non-rock acts. I would add, though, that it is also fun trying to figure out what year the obvious acts deserve entry. For example, taking their careers as a whole, I'd rate the Stones, the Kinks and the Who in that order. However, I'm voting for the Who this year, the Kinks not until '67 or maybe '68, and the Stones will not pass the Who for me until '71. Maybe then it's a structural problem in the game. I can make these nuanced (and completely arbitrary!) distinctions year-by-year, but they won't wind up being indicated in my voting because they all will be voted in before hand. Nonetheless, I think the exercise is worth it and fun.
It's probably too late because the game is already started, but 10 seems like too many to vote for. Every year I've had to vote for 2 artists I didn't think deserved it yet or at all. I really think we should only be voting for who's deserving just like hall of fames.
In the baseball hall of fame, you can vote for up to ten, assuming you believe ten are deserving. I think we are using the same method. If only 8 are deserving, I'm only voting for 8.
Of course, since there is no context, standards, or tradition to guage who "deserves" to be in the Acclaimed Music Hall Of Fame, it's kind a difficult question to answer.
One thing that makes the baseball hall of fame interesting is that an inductee must be named on 75% of the ballots to gain admission.
That rule might make voting more interesting.
I'm just throwing out an idea:
How about using Schleuse's list as "the ballot." We could vote up or down on up to ten artists. Only artists receiving votes on 75% of the ballots are admitted. In order to stay on the ballot for the next year, an artist must be listed on 15% (I think that's the baseball rule).
I'm only suggesting this because the baseball hall of fame uses this rule and it creates a lot of discussion and controversy every year.
Feel free to ignore. It might not be cool to switch rules in the middle of the game.
As it is now, you have to vote for 10.
Several good points. My meandering thoughts:
I seriously considered something like the 75% rule when thinking about the voting structure, Paul. I agree it's good for consensus-building, but there are some problems with it:
Very few artists--none, actually, since the 1960 election--have appeared on 75% of ballots. Of course, we could set the bar lower, but I don't see as that solves the problem.
Part of the appeal of the four-artists-per-year structure is that it will allow for left field picks. Even if Bill Monroe didn't make it, eventually some AM sentimental favorites are going to.
And, as you note, it wouldn't seem right to change the rules now that the game has started. The BBWAA (the voting body for the baseball Hall) does that sometimes, but frankly, I think the baseball Hall is an ungodly mess. I don't really want to emulate them.
I have also, by the way, had trouble coming up with ten artists in a couple of elections now that the obvious big names are already in (although I've never voted for an artist I didn't think was deserving). However, my guess is that we're getting into an era where there are so many big names that we likely won't have that problem any more...
But, if you're holding your nose to vote for #9 and #10, well, that's no fun, so...for the 1966 and 1967 elections, if you want to fill your last two slots with "none of the above," go ahead.
I still like the idea of merging the discussion and voting threads into one, so that each election cycle is one week, rather than two. My hope is that a quicker pace (plus the appearance of many Big Names in the late 1960's) will generate more interest and excitement.