It has been about a year since the last update. Isn't it about time?

Yes, but a year is very little time. Hardly enough to get out of bed and head for the bathroom.

I'm sure Henrik is busy workin' on it, though!

John S, Henrik has stated several times in this forum that the process of updating the site is extremely time- and labor-intensive, and he doesn't have nearly the amount of unencumbered time to devote to this as he did at the beginning; in fact, he's decided to start -only- updating the site once a year from here on out. He said a while back that the update would be sometime this summer, but we just have to be patient.

Yes, I've been curious too since he did say the next update was going to be in the summer.

I'm most curious about the 2007 albums. There are at least 5 or 6 I think are going to do really well.

I believe he said "July or August", which means we still have almost 2 months.

But, in all seriousness, why doesn't Henrik go down the Dr. Evil road and create a Mini-Henrik to help him out?

They're still a little young.

I think I said "late summer" in that earlier post.

When I said that I...
1. had already done some work on the update (added some data into "spreadsheet 1")
2. thought I would do some of the remaining work before the summer, and
3. hoped that I would be able to do most of the work during summer holiday (July) and my parental leave (August to end of year - yes, fathers can take several months' parental leave i Sweden).

Now I know that...
1. I haven't done anything on the update since I wrote that "last summer" post
2. taking care of a baby takes more time than I could ever imagine (even if the baby is the loveliest thing on the planet)

Hence, the update will be later than August. My goal now is just to make the update before the new EOY lists come in.

Sorry about those bad news.

I forgot to explain "spreadsheet 1". This is a re-post from a message I wrote earlier today in another thread:

I have two source spreadsheets. In "spreadsheet 1" I add all the lists and positions for each song.

"Spreadsheet 2" (actually a set of documents) is way more detailed. It has information for each critics list and each song if it was included, excluded or ineligible (e.g. a 1974 song was ineligible for all EOY lists from 2006, a 2003 song was ineligible for an all-time list from 1995, and a UK song was ineligible for a list of the best Canadian songs ever). In addition, all the information you see on the website (country, amazon links, etc.) are added for each artist/song.

Right now there are 14,000 songs that are in spreadsheet 1 but not in spreadsheet 2. They are not listed at AM, but every time I think a song could break into the AM top 3000, I include the song in spreadsheet 2. However, most of the songs in spreadsheet 1 have only been included in one critic list.

A ranking of the 'bubbling under' albums is even more difficult, as I use some ratings as sources, and it would be impossible to collect all ratings from every source. Normally I include ratings (in spreadsheet 1) for each album that have been listed in more than one critics list. Then again, if I think an album could break into the AM top 3000 I include the album in spreadsheet 2.

Here's spreadsheet 1 for the songs. I can post the album spreadsheet later if you like (it's too messy at the moment).

Why does metacritic take forever to update their comments page? I've written so many comments over the past year and I rarely see any posted. Not only that I read reviews in other magazines that aren't even included in the artists score.

Henrik, don't worry about the delay! I'm sure we all can wait for a few more months and appreciate that it takes a great amount of time and effort to update such a massive list.

Take your time Henrik, and keep up the great work. The important thing is that this site continues, and STAYS ACCURATE. I'd rather time be sacrificed for quality. Plus, raising a child is more important so focus on that.

I just recently discovered this site, and now it's my number one resource for Pre-2007 music. Thank you so much Henrik!

(Somebody needs to do this for movies!)

"(Somebody needs to do this for movies!)" - dystopiandweller

http://theyshootpictures.com

Wow, thanks for that site! I don't know how I missed it. That's exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for, for movies.

It's on the bottom of the AM home page.

Films101.com. Arguably better.

I second the vote for Films101.com. As good as They Shoot Pictures is, Films101 is by far the closest anyone has come to creating an Acclaimed Music-style site for film. Like Henrik, the creator of Films101 feeds all kinds of film critics' lists, awards, etc. into a database, resulting in a convincing consensus of the most acclaimed movies of all time. I wish the numbering system was less literal (e.g., if ten films are tied at #1619, the next movie is listed as #1620 instead of #1629), but other than that it's a fascinating site if you're any kind of movie buff.

any news on when this site is gunna be updated. Its been over a year, and I want to see Arcade Fire's funeral jump into the top 100

My goal now is to make the update before the EOY lists, so probably in the second half of November.

Don't lose faith in me, as I'm really making progress at the moment, using all free time (i.e. when Hanna is asleep). I want to add as many new lists I can.

A question: I think that one of the aspects of the next update that we're most looking forward to (maybe even THE most anticipated part) is seeing where the 2007 albums and songs end up on the all-time lists. Is it at all feasible for you to give us any kind of preview of this, even if it's just a snapshot of how the '07 rankings have changed since the last time those album (end of January) and song (March) lists were posted? If it isn't, that's OK, of course.

Harold, I haven't gotten to the 2007 albums and songs yet...

Don't rush. I rather that every list is entered in sans mistakes, and that as many lists as possible are included, rather than something that might be rushed and less comprehensive/accurate.

I would give priority to albums 2007 over songs.
But I guess it is understandable that both are given less priority than babies.

your efforts are appreciated. I know a lot of stuff has been posted in the forum since the last update. Any idea how many lists are going to be included in this next update?

Hope you're enjoying married life and the addition to your family. :)

So... to continue that conversation about film101 vs theyshootpictures..

After using both, navigating the pages in detail, checking out their system of ranking, and their databases, I will have to disagree about film101.

If you actually see theyshootpictures' pdf file of all the critics' lists that were collected per movie (the link to download it is there if you look for it), it's easy to see that theyshootpictures makes use of WAY more lists for its calculations. It's just harder to see this because TSP doesn't post the lists on the movies' pages, but actually it uses a larger sample than film101.

The only caveat is that film101 does account for awards (Oscars, Sundance, etc.) while theyshootpictures goes only by lists. But TSP uses so many more lists, that I can forgive the lack of awards.

Also, a note about the 21st century films. I'm also assuming that theyshootpictures collects more year-end lists than film101. In any case, I agree much more with TSP's top 21st century films than film101's.

films101*

I agree Sean.
However, I think when it comes down to the I have to agree with films101 all-time list. Especially since TSPDT weights earlier movies heavier, thus skewing the results in favor of them.
Which is great if you're a huge fan of older movies.
But otherwise....

That's fine. I, too, agree with certain placements on films101 more than TSP. For example, Polanski's Knife In The Water is deservedly in the top 500 on films101, but only in the 800s in TSP. And yes, new films are overall given more due on films101.

In the end, though, I've gotta go with the site that collects the largest data sample, and that is TSP. But I see what you're saying.

Just had a look at some 2007 Excel files, the end of year lists and critics review lists.

Henrik, while you are working hard on that site update, is there any way we can assist in collecting and managing similar Excel files for the EOY and critics review lists of 2008? Or can you manage to do that in parallel as well?

Thanks Andre, I would love to get some help with the EOY spreadsheet, but I'm not sure how to handle the logistics if many of you want to add lists. Does anyone know if there's a web service where you can share a document with a "write check-in/check-out" feature (i.e. only one person at a time can make changes in the document)?

There are web solutions, including the check-in and check-out mechanism, available, but they all cost money and/or have limited free trial versions.

For example, the site http://www.filesanywhere.com/ looks like quite an interesting concept, but a 10-day free trial is not gonna help us out.

Is anyone else getting told TSPDT is an attack site when they try to go there?

I Dunno if it can be considered. But there was recently a 100 best canadian album book that just came out.

If that's Bob Merserau's book it's already in the pipeline.

Dear AM visitors and forumers,

I am sorry to have to tell you that the update I promised for the end of November will not be as large as you hoped for. There will be an update, and it will include the albums and songs from 2007, but no new all-time lists will be added. I just haven't had time enough to do all the necessary work for this.

But don't panic, there are good news as well. I have decided to continue the paternity leave to summer next year, so there should be time for a major update during spring. However, after next summer, I really don't know if I'll be able to continue with the updates.

I have added almost every all-time critics lists on my to-do list into spreadsheet 1 (explanation further down in this post) but I haven't had time to add anything into spreadsheet 2 yet. This means that I now have a clear picture of which albums and songs that will be added to AM next year (and there are lots of them!) but I don't know any better than you how the current AM albums and songs will move up and down, or what the positions for the new AM albums and songs will be.

I hate to keep you waiting all the time, so in addition to the "2007 update" I will present the coming AM albums and songs here in the forum.



Explanation of spreadsheet 1 and 2:
I have two source spreadsheets. In "spreadsheet 1" I add all the lists and positions for each song.

"Spreadsheet 2" (actually a set of documents) is way more detailed. It has information for each critics list and each album/song if it was included, excluded or ineligible (e.g. a 1974 song was ineligible for all EOY lists from 2006, a 2003 song was ineligible for an all-time list from 1995, and a UK song was ineligible for a list of the best Canadian songs ever). In addition, all the information you see on the website (country, amazon links, etc.) are added for each artist/song.

Right now there are 7,000 albums and 14,000 songs that are in spreadsheet 1 but not in spreadsheet 2. They are not listed at AM, but every time I think an album/song could break into the AM top 3000, I include the album/song in spreadsheet 2. Most of the albums/songs that have not yet been included in spreadsheet 2 have only been included in one critics list.

There's one thing that bothers me a little about the "2007 update". The algorithm has changed since the last year. The exact algorithm that I used for the last update was lost in a computer crash, but anyway I have come up with some new (slightly more scientific ) ideas to the weighting of the critics lists. Due to the algorithm change, albums and songs will move up and down the list even though no all-time lists will be added.

Since I'm more comfortable with the new algorithm, I'm not personally bothered that albums and songs will move around. No, what I'm worried about is that there will be a lot of discussions around this. Do you think you would accept if your favourite record drops? The top 100 will be almost intact but further down the list a 100-positions drop will not be unusual.

Henrik, great that an update is coming! I think most of us are eagerly waiting for something refreshing.

Regarding your lack of time after summer '09, why not consider sharing the work instead of doing all the work alone. If not within your direct environment (friends and family), I'm sure there will be some volunteers among the 'senior' forum members to assist you.

And to your announcement of using a different algorithm I can be very clear: If you lower any of my favourite albums I'm definitely gonna sue you!

I agree with André. Let's try to find some solution that minimises your efforts. I am sure some people would be willing to help. Perhaps we should also consider dropping the singles list and/or make stricter rules on which lists are eligible for the database in order to keep the workload down?

Nice to hear this update about the upcoming update. I can imagine the hard work it has been.

The algorithm change does not bother me, if it is indeed more scientific. Any improvement of formula is fine with me.

Also, regarding the (lack) of post-summer 2009 updates. Andre brings up a good point about letting some of the veteran forum members help out. But even if that doesn't work, I sure wouldn't mind just a once in a year, or even a once every two years update. I'd certainly be satisfied with longer intervals between updates. In the end, the updates are the same, after all. So instead of ending updates altogether, maybe spread out the work over time?

In either case, thank you for all the work you've put in!

Another way to spread the work out, or split it up:

Instead of stressing to get in both all-time lists and EOY lists at once as a single major update, maybe do an EOY lists update in the beginning of the year, then all-time lists in the second half.

Perhaps I should have waited with this post until after the "2007 update", but I'm too eager to hear your comments about this. Here are the albums that will be added in next year's update.

16 Horsepower - Sackcloth 'n' Ashes
16 Horsepower - Secret South
AC/DC - High Voltage
AC/DC - Powerage
A-ha - Hunting High and Low
A-ha - Scoundrel Days
Ahmed, Mahmoud - Eré Méla Méla/Ethiopiques 7
Air - Air Lore
Air - The Virgin Suicides
Alaska y Dinarama - Deseo carnal
Alaska y Los Pegamoides - Grandes éxitos
Amon Duul II - Tanz der Lemminge
Anderson, Laurie - Strange Angels
Aphrodite's Child - 666
Area - Arbeit macht frei
Art Ensemble of Chicago - Full Force
Art Ensemble of Chicago - Nice Guys
Ash Ra Tempel - Ash Ra Tempel
Associates - Fourth Drawer Down
Autechre - Amber
B-52's - Cosmic Thing
Baca, Susana - Susana Baca
Bad Religion - No Control
Badalamenti, Angelo - Twin Peaks Soundtrack
Badu, Erykah - Mama's Gun
Banhart, Devendra - Nino Rojo
Barrett, Syd - Barrett
Bashung, Alain - Play Blessures
Battiato, Franco - La voce del padrone
Beautiful South - Welcome to the Beautiful South
Bee Gees - Odessa
Ben, Jorge - A Tábua de Esmeralda
Ben, Jorge - Samba Esquema Novo
Beta Band - Hot Shots II
Beyonce - Dangerously in Love
Big Punisher - Capital Punishment
Bikini Kill - Pussy Whipped
Black Heart Procession - 2
Black Moon - Enta Da Stage
Blue Rodeo - Five Days in July
Blunstone, Colin - One Year
Bob Hund - Omslag: Martin Kann
Boredoms - Vision Creation Newsun
Brel, Jacques - A l'Olympia
Brood, Herman & His Wild Romance - Shpritzs
Brown, James - Soul Syndrome
Bryars, Gavin - The Sinking of the Titanic
Brygada Kryzys - Brygada Kryzys
Buckley, Tim - Dream Letter: Live in London 1968
Budd, Harold and Brian Eno - Ambient 2: The Plateaux of Mirror
Budd, Harold and Brian Eno - The Pearl
Bush, Kate - Never for Ever
Cabaret Voltaire - Red Mecca
Café Tacuba - Quatro Caminos
Café Tacuba - Re
Cale, J.J. - Troubadour
Cale, John - Vintage Violence
Callier, Terry - What Color Is Love
Camaron - Le leyenda del tiempo
Camel - The Snow Goose
Camper Van Beethoven - Key Lime Pie
Camper Van Beethoven - Telephone Free Landslide Victory
Cánovas, Rodrigo, Adolfo Y Guzmán - Señora azul
Cat Power - The Covers Record
Cat Power - What Would the Community Think
Catherine Wheel - Ferment
CCCP Fedeli Alla Linea - Affinità-divergenze tra il Compagno Togliatti e noi
Chameleons, The - Script of the Bridge
Chameleons, The - What Does Anything Mean, Basically?
Charles, Ray - Ray Charles/Hallelujah, I Love Her So
Cherry, Don - Eternal Rhythm
Cherry, Don - Symphony for Improvisers
Chris McGregor's Brotherhood of Breath - Brotherhood of Breath
Chrome - Half Machine Lip Moves
cLOUDDEAD - cLOUDDEAD
Colosseum - Valentyne Suite
Coltrane, John - Sun Ship
Common - Electric Circus
Common - One Day It'll All Make Sense
Cooder, Ry - Into the Purple Valley
Costa, Gal - Fa-Tal - Gal a Todo Vapor
Costa, Gal - Gal
Costa, Gal - Gal Costa
Crazy Horse - Crazy Horse
D.O.C. - No One Can Do It Better
Daho, Etienne - Paris ailleurs
Dalla, Lucio - Lucio Dalla
Dalton, Karen - It's So Hard to Tell You Who's Going to Love You the Best
Danzig - Danzig II: Lucifuge
David & David - Boomtown
Davis, Miles - Dark Magus
Davis, Miles - Get Up with It
dB's - Repercussion
Dead Can Dance - The Serpent's Egg
Deep Purple - Burn
Def Leppard - High 'n Dry
Defunkt - Thermonuclear Sweat
Depeche Mode - Ultra
Destiny's Child - The Writing's on the Wall
Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity
Discharge - Hear Nothing, Say Nothing, See Nothing
Divine Comedy - A Short Album About Love
Dixie Chicks - Wide Open Spaces
DMX - It's Dark and Hell Is Hot
Don Caballero - II
Dr Feelgood - Malpractice
Dr. Alimantado - Best Dressed Chicken in Town
Driscoll, Brian Auger & The Trinity Band, Julie - Streetnoise
Durutti Column - The Return of The Durutti Column
Electrelane - The Power Out
Emperor - Anthems to the Welkins at Dusk
Eno, Brian - Apollo: Atmospheres & Soundtracks
Erasure - The Innocents
Eric's Trip - Love Tara
Explosions in the Sky - The Earth Is Not a Cold Dead Place
Fahey, John - America
Fahey, John - Days Have Gone By
Fall - Slates
Fall - The Frenz Experiment
Fall - The Real New Fall LP: Formerly Country on the Click
Family - Un soplo en el corazón
Fay, Bill - Bill Fay
Feelies - Only Life
Felt - Forever Breathes the Lonely Word
Ferry, Bryan - Let's Stick Together
Fiery Furnaces - Gallowsbird's Park
Flaming Lips - Clouds Taste Metallic
Flaming Lips - In a Priest Driven Ambulance
Flatlanders, The - More a Legend Than a Band
Fleetwood Mac - Tango in the Night
Fleshtones - Roman Gods
For Carnation, The - The For Carnation
Foxx, John - Metamatic
Frank, Jackson C - Jackson C Frank/Blues Run the Game
Frisell, Bill - Have a Little Faith
Funkadelic - Let's Take It to the Stage
Future Sound of London - Lifeforms
Gabinete Caligari - Cuatro rosas
Gainsbourg, Serge - Initials B. B.
Gainsbourg, Serge - L'Homme a Tete De Chou
Garbarek, Jan & Bobo Stenson - Witchi-Tai-To
Garcia, Charly - Clics Modernos
Gaye, Marvin - I Want You
Gene - Olympian
Genesis - Nursery Cryme
Ghostface Killah - Ironman
Giant Sand - Chore of Enchantment
Gil, Gilberto - Gilberto Gil
Gil, Gilberto / Jorge Ben - Ogum Xangô/Gil & Jorge
Gilberto, Bebel - Tanto Tempo
Gilberto, Joao - Chega De Saudade
Gilberto, Joao - Joao Gilberto
Glass, Philip - Glassworks
Go-Betweens - Tallulah
God Machine, The - Scenes from the Second Storey
Gong - Angel's Egg (Radio Gnome Invisible Part II)
Goodie Mob - Soul Food
Gorky's Zygotic Mynci - Spanish Dance Troupe
Gotan Project - La revancha del tango
Grant, Amy - Age to Age
Guccini, Francesco - Radici
Guess Who - American Woman
Hagen Band, Nina - Nina Hagen Band
Harcourt, Ed - From Every Sphere
Hardy, Francoise - Comment te dire adieu?
Hardy, Francoise - La Question
Harper, Roy - HQ/When An Old Cricketer Leaves the Crease
Harrison, George - Cloud Nine
Henry Cow - In Praise of Learning
Henry Cow - Unrest
Henry, Pierre & Michel Colombier - Messe Pour Le Temps Present
Herrmann, Bernard - Taxi Driver OST
High Tide - High Tide
High Tide - Sea Shanties
Hill, Andrew - Black Fire
Holiday, Billie - Lady Sings the Blues
Hubbard, Freddie - Red Clay
Human League - Reproduction
Hutcherson, Bobby - Dialogue
Indigo Girls - Indigo Girls
INXS - Listen Like Thieves
Iron Maiden - Live after Death
Iron Maiden - Powerslave
Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son
Isaak, Chris - Silvertone
Jackson, Wanda - Rockin' with Wanda
Jam - This Is the Modern World
James - Stutter
Japan - Gentlemen Take Polaroids
Japan - Quiet Life
Jefferson Airplane - Bless Its Pointed Little Head
Jellyfish - Spilt Milk
Jeru the Damaja - Sun Rises in the East
Jesus and the Mary Chain - Honey's Dead
Jethro Tull - Songs from the Wood
Jobim, Antonio Carlos - Wave
Judas Priest - Sad Wings of Destiny
Kantner, Paul & Jefferson Starship - Blows Against the Empire
Keita, Salif - Moffou
Kidjo, Angelique - Logozo
King Crimson - In the Wake of Poseidon
King Crimson - Starless and Bible Black
Komeda, Krzysztof - Astigmatic
Konono No. 1 - Congotronics
Kool G Rap & DJ Polo - Road to the Riches
Kottke, Leo - 6 & 12 String Guitar
Kottke, Leo - Greenhouse
Kottke, Leo - My Feet Are Smiling
Kraftwerk - Minimum-Maximum
KRS-One - Return of the Boom Bap
Kuti, Fela - Original Sufferhead
Kuti, Fela Anikulapo & Africa '70 - Expensive Shit
Labradford - Mi Media Naranja
Labradford - Prazision LP
Lanegan, Mark - The Winding Sheet
Lanegan, Mark - Whiskey for the Holy Ghost
Lateef, Yusef - Eastern Sounds
Led Zeppelin - BBC Sessions
Lemon Jelly - Lost Horizons
Lil' Kim - Hard Core
Lindsay, Arto - Mundo Civilizado
Lindsay, Arto - Noon Chill
Lo, Cheikh - Ne La Thiass
Lopez, Orlando "Cachaito" - Cachaito
Los Planetas - Una semana en el motor de un autobús
Low - Long Division
Luciano - Where There Is Life
Madness - Absolutely
Magma - Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandöh
Main Source - Breaking Atoms
Mann, Aimee - Lost in Space
Mano Negra - Casa Babylon
Mano Negra - Patchanka
Mansun - Attack of the Grey Lantern
Markie, Biz - Goin' Off
Marquis De Sade - Rue De Siam
Martyn, John - Bless the Weather
Mastodon - Leviathan
Maxwell - Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite
May, Derrick - Innovator
Mayfield, Curtis - Roots
MC Solaar - Prose combat
MC5 - High Time
McCartney, Paul - Tug of War
McLaughlin, John - Devotion
McLaughlin, John - My Goal's Beyond
Melvins - Houdini
Menomena - I Am the Fun Blame Monster
Mercury Rev - Boces
Mercury Rev - See You on the Other Side
Mills, Jeff - Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo
Mingus, Charles - Pre-Bird/Mingus Revisited
Misfits - Walk Among Us
Mojave 3 - Excuses for Travellers
Monk, Thelonious - Monk's Dream
Monk, Thelonious - Thelonious Monk Trio
Monk, Thelonious & Sonny Rollins - Thelonious Monk & Sonny Rollins
Monster Magnet - Dopes to Infinity
Moody Blues - In Search of the Lost Chord
Moondog - Moondog
Moonshake - Eva Luna
Morgan, Lee - The Cooker
Mountain - Climbing!
Murvin, Junior - Police & Thieves
Nacha Pop - Nacha Pop
Napalm Death - From Enslavement to Obliteration
N'Dour, Youssou - Coono du reer (Nothing's in Vain)
Nelson, Willie - Shotgun Willie
Newman, Colin - A-Z
NoFX - Punk in Drublic
Noir Desir - Tostaky
Nordenstam, Stina - And She Closed Her Eyes
Norman, Larry - Only Visiting This Planet
NTM - Paris sous les bombes
Ochs, Phil - All the News That's Fit to Sing
Ochs, Phil - Rehearsals for Retirement
Of Montreal - Satanic Panic in the Attic
Olivia Tremor Control - Black Foliage
Opal - Happy Nightmare Baby
Orchestra Baobab - Specialist in All Styles
Organized Konfusion - Organized Konfusion
Organized Konfusion - Stress: The Extincion Agenda
Oryema, Geoffrey - Exile
Os Novos Baianos - Acabou Chorare
Osbourne, Ozzy - Diary of a Madman
Page, Jimmy & Robert Plant - No Quarter - Unledded
Pantera - Far Beyond Driven
Parker, Evan - 50th Birthday Concert
Parsons Project, Alan - I, Robot
Pastorius, Jaco - Jaco Pastorius
Pastorius, Jaco - Word of Mouth
Pata Negra - Blues de la frontera
Paul, Sean - Dutty Rock
Pearl Jam - Yield
Pere Ubu - New Picnic Time
Perhacs, Linda - Parallelograms
PFM - Storia di un Minuto
Photek - Modus Operandi
Pink Floyd - Ummagumma
Plastikman - Consumed
Pogues - Red Roses for Me
Popol Vuh - Hosianna Mantra
Pretty Things - Get the Picture?
Pretty Things - Parachute
Primus - Pork Soda
Primus - Sailin' the Seas of Cheese
Prodigy - Experience
Public Image Ltd. - Flowers of Romance
Queen - A Day at the Races
Radio Futura - La canción de Juan Perro
Radio Futura - La ley del desierto / La ley del mar
Ramones - End of the Century
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Mother's Milk
Red House Painters - Ocean Beach
Redman, Joshua - Moodswing
Regina, Elis & Antonio Carlos Jobim - Elis & Tom
Replacements - Hootenanny
Residents - Not Available
Rezillos, The - Can't Stand The Rezillos
Rheostatics - Whale Music
Rich, Buddy - Swingin' New Big Band
Rivers, Sam - Contours
Rivers, Sam - Crystals
Rivers, Sam - Fuchsia Swing Song
Roach, Steve - Structures from Silence
Rolling Stones - Their Satanic Majesty's Request
Romeo, Max & The Upsetters - War in a Babylon
Roots - Illadelph Halflife
Rundgren, Todd - Runt: The Ballad of Todd Rundgren
Rush - Exit…Stage Left
Russell, Arthur - Another Thought
Russell, Arthur - World of Echo
Ruts - The Crack
Sanders, Pharoah - Black Unity
Sangare, Oumou - Worotan
Schulze, Klaus - Timewind
Scofield, John - Time on My Hands
Scorpions - Blackout
Scorpions - Love at First Sting
Scorpions - Lovedrive
Scott-Heron, Gil & Brian Jackson - Winter in America
Secos & Molhados - Secos & Molhados
Sepultura - Beneath the Remains
Serrat, Joan Manuel - Mediterráneo
Sill, Judee - Heart Food
Silver Apples - Silver Apples
Simon, Paul - Hearts & Bones
Simone, Nina - Jazz as Played in an Exclusive Side Street Club/Little Girl Blue
Simple Minds - Empires and Dance
Sinatra, Nancy & Lee Hazlewood - Nancy & Lee
Siouxsie and The Banshees - Kaleidoscope
Sisa - Qualsevol nit pot sortir el sol
Slipknot - Iowa
Sloan - Twice Removed
Slowdive - Just for a Day
Slowdive - Souvlaki
Smith, Elliott - Elliott Smith
Smith, Elliott - Roman Candle
Smog - Red Apple Falls
Soda Stereo - Canción Animal
Souls of Mischief - 93 Till Infinity
Spinvis - Spinvis
Spirit - The Family That Plays Together
Spiritualized - Pure Phase
Spoon - A Series of Sneaks
Springfield, Dusty - From Dusty ... with Love/A Brand New Me
Squarepusher - Feed Me Weird Things
Squeeze - Cool for Cats
Stranglers - The Raven
Suicidal Tendencies - Suicidal Tendencies
Summer, Donna - Once Upon a Time
Sun Kil Moon - Ghosts of the Great Highway
Swans - Soundtracks for the Blind
Swell Maps - A Trip to Marineville
Swell Maps - Jane from Occupied Europé
Sylvian, David - Gone to Earth
Talking Heads - The Name of the Band Is…
Tangerine Dream - Rubycon
Tangerine Dream - Zeit
Taraf de Haidouks - Band of Gypsies
Tears for Fears - The Hurting
The, The - Dusk
Thin Lizzy - Bad Reputation
Thin Lizzy - Black Rose - A Rock Legend
Thompson, Richard & Linda - Pour Down Like Silver
Throbbing Gristle - DOA: Third and Final Report
Tippett, Keith - Mujician
Tobin, Amon - Permutation
Toure, Ali Farka - The River
Tragically Hip, The - Up to Here
Traoré, Rokia - Bowmboi
Triana - El Patio
Tubeway Army - Replicas
Tuxedomoon - Desire
UFO - Strangers in the Night
Uncle Tupelo - March 16-20, 1992
Undertones - Hypnotised
Undertones - Positive Touch
Vainica Doble - Heliotropo
Waits, Tom - Nighthawks at the Diner
Waits, Tom - One from the Heart
Walkabouts - Satisfied Mind
Wall of Voodoo - Dark Continent
Van Zandt, Townes - Townes Van Zandt
Vangelis - Blade Runner
Vangelis - Chariots of Fire
War - Why Can't We Be Friends?
Various Artists - The Rocky Horror Picture Show
Various Artists - Tropicália ou Panis et Circencis
Vaughan, Stevie Ray - Couldn't Stand the Weather
Ween - God Ween Satan - The Oneness
Veloso, Caetano - Caetano Veloso [1969]
Veloso, Caetano - Transa
Veneno - Veneno
Veneno, Kiko - Échate un cantecito
Westerberg, Paul - 14 Songs
Whipping Boy - Heartworm
Who - Live at the Isle of Weight Festival 1970
Vibrators - Pure Mania
Wilco - Kicking Television
Williams, John - Star Wars
Williams, Kathryn - Little Black Numbers
Wipers - Is This Real?
Wipers - Over the Edge
Wipers - Youth of America
Virgo - Virgo
Voivod - Dimension Hatröss
Wyatt, Robert - Nothing Can Stop Us
XTC - White Music
Yello - Solid Pleasure
Yello - You Gotta Say Yes to Another Excess
Yellow Magic Orchestra - Solid State Survivor
Young Gods - L'eau Rouge
Young Gods - The Young Gods
Zappa, Frank - Burnt Weeny Sandwich
Zappa, Frank - Chunga's Revenge
Zappa, Frank - Joe's Garage, Act 1
Zappa, Frank - One Size Fits All
Zappa, Frank - Shiek Yerbouti
Zappa, Frank - The Grand Wazoo
Zappa, Frank - Waka/Jawaka
Zappa, Frank - Weasels Ripped My Flesh
Ze, Tom - Estudando O Samba

Most of these albums appear in one or a few of the critics lists that will be added in the update, but I have also looked at RateYourMusic and added some albums with high RYM scores that can be anticipated to appear in upcoming critics lists. I have looked at both the overall RYM scores and my RYM friends' scores, which means that those of you who have let me know your RYM identity might have had some impact on the album titles above.

Thanks Andre, dr Robban and Sean Pak for your responses. I'll definitely look into ways to make it easier for you/others to help me out in the future.

...and the songs that will be added in the next year's update. I've already added the Pitchfork 500 list to my "spreadsheet 1", but I already know that this list will be longer since I recently received an extensive list from Olivier Moinet as well as a few Spanish lists from Honorio.

ABBA - The Day Before You Came
Afghan Whigs - Debonair
Animal Collective - Grass
Arcade Fire - Neighborhood #1 (Tunnels)
Archers of Loaf - Web in Front
Bashung, Alain - Vertige De L'Amour
Beat Happening - Indian Summer
Beatles, The - I Want You (She's So Heavy)
Beatles, The - Lady Madonna
Beirut - Postcards from Italy
Belle and Sebastian - The Lazy Line Painter Jane
Bird, Ronnie - Fais Attention
Björk - Joga
Black, Frank - Headache
Blur - There's No Other Way
Boards of Canada - Happy Cycling
Bruni, Carla - Quelqu'un m'a dit
Candido - Jingo
Cardigans, The - Lovefool
Cat Power - Cross Bones Style
Cave, Nick - The Weeping Song
Chance & The Contortions, James - Contort Yourself
Christophe - Les Mots Bleus
Clash, The - The Guns of Brixton
Cold Chisel - Khe Sanh
Common - I Used to Love h.e.r.
Congos, The - Fisherman
Cope, Julian - Trampolene
Cure, The - The Love Cats
Decemberists, The - Here I Dreamt I Was an Architecht
Depeche Mode - Policy of Truth
Devo - Mongoloid
Dexy's Midnight Runners - There There My Dear
Dismemberment Plan, The - The Ice of Boston
Dutronc, Jacques - (Il Est 5 Heures) Paris S'éveille
Dutronc, Jacques - Les Playboys
Eno, Brian - 1/1
ESG - Moody
Ferré, Léo - Avec le temps
Flaming Lips, The - Waiting for Superman
Francois, Claude - Comme d'habitude
Fugazi - Merchandise
Galaxie 500 - Blue Thunder
Gang Starr - Just to Get a Rep/Who's Gonna Take The Weight?
Gee, Spoonie & Treacherous Three - The New Rap Language
Guided By Voices - Game of Pricks
Hole - Violet
Housemartins, The - Happy Hour
Human Resource - Dominator
Husker Du - Pink Turns to Blue
Jesus and Mary Chain, The Feat. Hope Sandoval - Sometimes Always
Johnny Boy - You Are the Generation that Bought More Shoes and You Get What You Deserve
Joy Division - Disorder
Kraftwerk - Nummern
Kweli, Talib - Get By
Liquid Liquid - Optimo
Luniz - I Got 5 On It
Madness - My Girl
Manset, Gérard - Il Voyage en Solitaire
McLusky - To Hell with Good Intentions
Moreau, Jeanne - Le Tourbillon
Mountain Goats, The - No Children
My Bloody Valentine - To Here Knows When
Neutral Milk Hotel - Holland, 1945
Newsom, Joanna - Bridges and Balloons
Newsom, Joanna - Peach, Plum, Pear
Nirvana - Scentless Apprentice
OutKast - Spottieottiedopaliscious
Paperclip People - Throw
Pavement - Gold Soundz
Pavement - Rattled by the Rush
Pavement - Stereo
Phair, Liz - Divorce Song
Pixies - Wave of Mutilation
Pixies - Velouria
Placebo - Nancy Boy
Polnareff, Michel - Love Me, Please Love Me
Prodigy, The - No Good (Start The Dance)
Radiohead - Just
Records, The - Starry Eyes
Sade - Your Love Is King
Saint Etienne - Like a Motorway
Salvador, Henri - Syracuse
Silver Jews - Random Rules
Slick Rick - Children's Story
Smith, Elliott - Ballad of Big Nothing
Smith, Elliott - Needle in the Hay
Smith, Patti - Rock'n'Roll Nigger
Spacemen 3 - Walkin' with Jesus
Springsteen, Bruce - Atlantic City
Stereolab - Cybele's Reverie
Stevens, Sufjan - Casimir Pulaski Day
Strawberry Switchblade - Since Yesterday
Talking Heads - Memories Can't Wait
UNKLE - Rabbit in Your Headlights
Wah! - The Story of the Blues
Wedding Present, The - My Favourite Dress
Violent Femmes - Gone Daddy Gone

Am I understanding properly that RYM user ratings are now going to have effects on AM ratings?

Shaun

Shaun, no, that's a misunderstanding. What I meant was that I have looked at the RYM ratings to see which albums I should add at AM. Some albums with high RYM scores will be added although they haven't appeared in many critics lists (but have received at least some critical acclaim). However, the RYM score will not be used for the AM ranking, which means that those albums will be typical "bubbling under" albums.

Wow, that's a lot of new albums and songs, and on top of that we will see the 2007 albums and songs.

Spinvis' debut album is going to enter the list, a great album! It's completely in Dutch and the lyrics are quite important, which makes the entry very special.

Very exciting!

By the way, I'll also volunteer to pitch in and help on future updates. (I'm a fully qualified mad scientist, you know...)

I'm crossing my fingers that you will at least finish out this decade and stop updating in 2011 at the earliest. I really wanted to know how the rankings of 2000s stuff will be by the end of the decade. ;)

Henrik---
Thanks SO much for the list.
I appeciate it alot. So don't try to stress yourself out on it. An an annual or bi-annual updates is definetly good enough for me.
Anyways, really looking forward to it.

P.S. Someone should do this for videogames!!
Anyone got any nifty formulae?

I just want to say that Henrik thank you for your work. Thanks to all that work we are passing a very good times.
We are eager to see how things are after the updates were promised.

Thanks a lot for the new info Henrik!

As for future updates, I see quite a few possibilities:

1. The work becomes (much more) collective. This is probably the way of continuing, but there may be practical problems: e.g. with access to the database.

2. The Acclaimed Music Database becomes more focused.
a) albums only
b) maybe not the 3000 most acclaimed, but 1000?
c) stricter rules for which lists are eligible, e.g. no more additions of genre specific lists.

3) The Acclaimed Music Database is updated much less regular.

Now Henrik is the only one who has an idea of how much time changes 2a-c would save. But in particular 2b seems to be promissing: This change would basically mean that Henrik's spreadsheet no 1 would not have to be updated in a very long time.

Personally, I would much prefer implementing changes 2a-c to making less regular updates (change 3). But let Henrik inform us on how much labour effort the different changes would lead to and then... Discuss!

Robban, I hope that alternative 1 will be the way to go. I'll try to make a list of steps of what needs to be done and then we can look into what I need to do and where you can help me out.

Alternative 2 would be A LOT easier for me, since I would not often need to find information about additional albums (which is really what takes most of the time, adding a new list where all albums are already at AM is done very quickly), but while I agree that this alternative would be better than nothing, I think it's a sad alternative. Personally I'm very interested in what goes on in the lower regions of the lists, and I enjoy the songs list just as much as the albums list.

Alternative 3 doesn't seem to be a good option. Could it be less regular than once a year? On the other hand, updates more than once a year are probably not necessary, perhaps not even wanted as it would complicate forum games like bracketology.


BTW, anyone who is happy to see a personal favorite among the albums or songs listed above?

No real personal favorites among the new albums listed, as I only own a few. Nice to see HOOTENANNY (which I need to get on CD; Westerberg and company could never have made LET IT BE without making this first, with "Color Me Impressed" and "Within Your Reach" ranking among the band's finest and "Lovelines" - jazz-inflected improv behind Paul reciting actual personal ads from a Minneapolis newspaper - among their funniest); Elliott Smith's self-titled album; and the Vibrators' PURE MANIA (an underrated classic from the early UK punk era).

Favorites among the songs: Hole's "Violet", one of the all-time classic opening tracks; NMH's "Holland 1945", an improbably joyous song about Anne Frank; the three Pavement songs, which collectively sum up everything they did best; "Just", one of my favorite Radiohead songs; Elliott's "Needle in the Hay", largely for how brilliantly Wes Anderson used it in THE ROYAL TENENBAUMS (underscoring a suicide attempt, ironically enough); Sufjan Stevens' utterly heartbreaking "Casimir Pulaski Day"; and "Memories Can't Wait", the most menacing song Talking Heads ever did, full of unsettling noises that sound like they're coming from inside the head of an -actual- psycho killer.

Henrik, unless I'm wrong, these lists represent albums and songs that MIGHT make it onto either the main list or Bubbling Under in the spring '09 update, correct?

Henrik, unless I'm wrong, these lists represent albums and songs that MIGHT make it onto either the main list or Bubbling Under in the spring '09 update, correct?

They WILL make it into one of them!

Holy Toledo! That's a lot of new entries! (And that's not even taking into consideration the Tom Moon "1000 RECORDINGS TO HEAR BEFORE YOU DIE A HIDEOUS, SHRIEKING DEATH" book, which I'm currently working on for Henrik.)

Thanks Henrik !

This list of new candidates looks good, and as far as I can tell, the French albums are very representative !

And I second everybody about the future of the updates. I'm not sure to be much of a help (given my limited time) but you never know !!

I could probably help if needed, although I'm pretty busy now due to college applications.

Anyway, I really like the addition of the Mojave 3 album (the excellent "Excuses for Travellers") and "Holland, 1945."

I personally wouldn't mind if it was scaled down to top 1000. I know a lot of people will strongly disagree with that here, but I find there's a dropping off point around 800 or so where I'm much less likely to like an album I find on the list.

Or, maybe go down to 1000 and after that do some kind of tiered thing. Like, accept that the difference between 10 and 90 is a lot bigger than the difference between 2510 and 2590 and put stuff into large groups.

I'm not sure I understand what the "2007 update" would be if it's not adding the 2007 albums/songs to the all-time list. Isn't every album/song on AM either a top 3000 or a bubbling under? And though I'm far from a senior member, I'm a huge fan of what you do here and appreciate it to no end, so I'll give my two cents. If your new algorithm is slightly more scientific, I'll take that any day over a personal favorite perhaps being signficantly repositioned. If that's how they truly fall, then so be it. And I personally would not like to cut the list down in terms of quantity. I don't mind long gaps between updates so long as there's always approximate timelines on when the next update will be. And even if you hung up your list-making hat for good, you still have put together an awesome reference tool already. Thanks, Henrik!

Brian, the upcoming update WILL add the 2007 albums and songs to the all-time Top 3000's - it's just that that's the only addition to the database that will be reflected. In other words, Henrik's updating the -site's- lists, but no outside lists beyond the 2007 end-of-year ones are being added to the database until the -next- update (which Henrik indicated would probably come sometime during spring '09).

Any idea as to when the 2007 albums will be added? Maybe a sneak peak as to there positioning? anything, anything at all.....lol...Something!

I'm not experienced with spreadsheet programs, nor am I a very good statistician. However, if any "help" you need merely requires filling up a column with albums/songs or something else simple like that, I'd be glad to help as well, Henrik.

I would like to help in any way I can. I'm afraid I can't commit that much time to actually chugging through lists and doing grunt work, but if there's any way I might be able to write an input/output program to automate part of the process I'd be happy to volunteer myself in that capacity.

BillAdama, it sounds like something useful, but what exactly do you mean with "input/output program"?

Excellent update, Henrik, with the inclusion of 17 new Spanish albums that add to the previous (“Songhai” and the ones from 2006 and 2007). I just can’t wait to see “Spain” in one of those rolling covers at the top of the page.

I mean, something that reads from a file then writes to another file.

Bill, I'm certainly not using any smart methods to copy lists from the web to my Excel sheets, too often I'm re-typing the names of the artist and album/song. The problem is usually that
1. the artist name is in the wrong format ("firstname surname" instead of "surname, firstname")
2. albums/songs that already exist in my spreadsheet should just be filled in with a number on an existing row, and quite often I have to do a lot of searching through my document to check if an album/song is there or not. Sometimes, if there are variations between critics sources to how an artist/album/song name is written, this can be a little tricky as well.

If you can help me with any of this I would be very grateful, but erhaps this wasn't really what you were thinking of?

At the other end of the work, there is the alternative to create a MySQL database instead of simple html files. I never find the time to learn MySQL, but I guess it could save me a lot of time if I don't need to upload every page. Any recommendations?

Henrik, do you already use any kind of database?

It is not necessary to work with a database on the server side of the website, you can use it offline as well.

As far as I can understand and add to BillAdama, I see your input and output as follows:
1) You currently have all your data in two spreadsheets (EOY lists, album and songs info, etc.). That's your input.
2) Than you run your algorithms etc. to generate the AM rankings. That's the first part of your output. The second part is the reporting, the HTML pages.

Instead of using spreadsheets, you could consider storing your input in a (relational) database and use MySQL to run queries on the input and automate the HTML page generation. This will take some time to design and implement, but would make future updates 'peanuts'. Too much trouble?

Alternatively, if you are familiar with Excel and would like to keep working with that, Excel macros and a bit of Visual Basic programming can do wonders too. You mention that you have to search a lot, that's typically done in an automated way, e.g. with a macro (for an example, see the RYM link generation macro that I've sent you).

Andre, thanks for your comments. In my case I don't think MySQL could be used to run the algorithms. I'm using a statistical package and it takes hours(!) to run the program that generate the "scores" (and my computer is fast). But seeing the scores as part of the input I could probably save some time using MySQL anyway.

I am a bit familiar with macros in Excel. For example, I use VB macros in the EOY spreadsheets. But I don't know how a macro would help me to search through a spreadsheet?

Henrik, I already assumed that your algorithms could not be run with MySQL (maybe I formulated it incorrectly in my post). But you're right, the outcome of your statistical program, i.e. the scores, you could enter in the database again.

To be able to search in the spreadsheet requires a bit of programming. So what I meant is a macro with a bit of Visual Basic programming attached to it.

It might be possible to find an automatic way to sniff out badly formatted input. It wouldn't be foolproof enough not to have to eyeball the lists, but it could at least probably deal with first names and last names in the wrong order and typos and such. I would have to see how your data is stored first. (And the first thing I'd have to do is find a way to convert Excel data to properly delimited plain text data sans formatting jargon).

Bill, here's "Spreadsheet 1" for songs.

Awesome news, Henrik! You can count on me to chip in to help as well. I'm also for the more scientific algorithm, but only if 1999 jumps at least 50 spots.

As for the time it takes to generate the scores, would a program like R (free to download) be an option? I know that it really takes a lot less time to run programs than Excel, and you aren't nearly as limited by the number of columns/rows, which could then combine your spreadsheet 1 and spreadsheet 2.

And I'm very happy to see the following albums jump in!

A-ha - Hunting High and Low
A-ha - Scoundrel Days

A-ha are much more than 1-hit wonders.

B-52's - Cosmic Thing

Excellent little pop album!

Depeche Mode - Ultra

A much better offering than Songs of Faith and Devotion in my book.

Erasure - The Innocents

A little respect to Erasure!

Human League - Reproduction

A benchmark of early, cold synth pop!

Siouxsie and The Banshees - Kaleidoscope

I'm thrilled with this! I really feel that it's their best album, with Juju and A Kiss in the Dreamhouse. I started a thread a few months ago stating that I felt that AM's Banshees rankings didn't reflect their true career trajectory.

Tubeway Army - Replicas

I'm also thrilled by this! Replicas is way better than The Pleasure Principle. Are you going to combine Gary Numan and Tubeway Army's entries into one artist, like Parliament/Funkadelic? I think it would make sense.

It's also cool to see that the alphabetized list merges the entires that start with V and the entries that start with W! It's cool to see language differences pop up! Do both letters appear on your keyboard? I remember the ñ key on Mexican computers and miss it!

Wow. Sorry, open that as text it just shows a bunch of indecipherable symbols. Unless somebody can link me to a site that can educate me about how to extract data from excel files, I can't help you much. (Or if Excel has some kind of option to automatically convert the data to a text table.)

I just ran across Drowned In Sound's "Our 66" where they name the best albums from like 2000-2005 or something, is there any reason this was never included?

Mac, I didn't know it existed. It sounds like an excellent addition. If you're posting the list, please do so in a separate thread. Thanks!

Mac, I'm aware of the same list and will post on a separate thread in a moment.

How are things going for me, you may wonder? Well, I've spent even more time working on some details of the algorithm during the last couple of weeks, as well as updated some AMG and metacritic ratings and corrected some artist and album info (a special thanks to Andre who is going through every album and makes a comparison between AM and RYM for me!).

Now the update is getting really close. I'm not sure if I will make it before the end of November, but if not it will only be a few days into December.

That's fantastic Henrik. Really getting excited now!

I think you should ad in the score of metacritics users cuz LUPE FIASCO"s albums are rated high and he deserves to be on the acclaimed list.

There are other sites for reader averages like RYM, this one's more for critical opinion.

Metacritic scores don't count very much in the long run, right? Cause they're based on reviews by people who've only heard the album for like a week, and you weight stuff higher the longer after the review was written after the album came out?

Right, Bill.