My votes for the 1960 HOA, as direct follow-up.

1. Blind Willie Johnson
2. Blind Lemon Jefferson
3. Blind Boy Fuller
4. Blind Roosevelt Graves
5. Blind Blake
6. Blind Willie McTell
7. Blind Joe Reynolds
8. Five Blind Boys of Mississippi
9. Udi Hrant Kenkulian
10. Moondog

I believe you'll agree with my choices. Especially you, netjade.

Anthony would go crazy deciphering that one.

Haven't had time to really read what came before, and don't have time now. Just wanted to throw my two cents in.

For your consideration (not ranked yet, just throwing out names that should get more consideration):

1. Louis Armstrong -- A superb vocalist. I heard he also blew the horn a bit.

I am not qualified to explain Armstrong's exalted status in the history of 20th century popular music. I just know that it's s easy to get caught up in hissound, and then if you take a half a step back and really listen, you hear it... the definition of artistry.

2. Ella Fitzgerald -- Someone above said Frank and Billie were the top vocalists of the 20th century. I place Ella above them both. No... she could not express sorrow like the two of them. But neither of them could express joy like them. I choose joy. (See also: Armstrong, Louis)

3. Duke Ellington -- For a guyt like me who loves arrangement... you've got to give it up for the master.

4. Chuck Berry -- Ask yourself, who should be the first rock 'n roller to get in. To me, there is no question. Chuck is the first rock 'n roll guy who should get in.

5. Ray Charles -- The most control of any non-jazz (and non-classical) singer, but you wouldn't know it. He sounds so off-the-cuff and improvisational. He's fooling you.

So, introductions are for sissies, right ?
Ithought it was the contrary (only sissies hide their true faces)
i ask you sthg politely, and that's how you're answering me ?
I'm not surprised anyway...
Lokks like you prefer to play your smarter-thanthou, higschool philosophy endless talk...
I'm not interested

haha

why not post your picture? or have we already seen it?

"Take a look around you, and think of your entire life. Condescension is one of the two most common attitudes of humans, together with deference."

Someday you're gonna be really embarrassed you ever wrote that.

but back to some real discussion and an attempt at positivity...schleuse, i hope you're not too discouraged by the minor derail...i think this game's gonna be great

what i love about ella is that she really sang some classic material...cole porter, rodgers & hart, gershwins...i'd love to find a way to include people like porter and carmichael...i like nicolas' idea of shadow men, though i don't know quite how it'd work...also, mismaiome, i appreciate your calculations to include producers/songwriters...very interesting...do more stuff like that!

To end with that negativity I've been partially responsible for : I'm in a bad mood these days (job reasons). I'll try not to overreact anymore. I should have kept my keyboard quiet (although I still mean everything I posted)and be a little more tolerant. Restrain is a quality I appreciate.

Back to music :

We could vote for one person that is not a performer
My pick for 1960 would probably be Ahmet Ertegun the creator of Atlantic Records

All the negativity in this thread should be put into my worst 100 songs ever poll instead.

Aaaand…we’re back.

1. nicolas, I think the idea of a “shadow election” is a good one, although “shadow” might have a more negative connotation than we want. (Let me also credit Lonesome Panda for suggesting something similar back on the Philly thread.) It certainly fits the Hall of Fame model to have a “wing” for non-performers (and sidemen?), and I think the idea of having one inductee to that wing every year seems about right.

Like Greg, I’m not real sure how it would work, though. Should this be part of the HOA election thread (coming on Tuesday), or should it run in parallel on another thread? (Is there any chance someone else could volunteer to run it?)

My first choice, by the way, would be Alan Freed. I’ve been reading up a bit on fifties rock in preparation for the Hall, and the importance of radio to the beginnings of rock cannot be overstated.

****

2. Schwah and Greg make a good case for Ella. I love Ella, and she certainly deserves a look. In some ways, she seems like a “compromise candidate.” She’s not exactly Bessie Smith or Billie Holiday or Frank Sinatra—she’s less earthy, less spiky, and less cultish, respectively—but she covers a lot of bases.

It’s not necessarily bad to be a compromise. For me, Duke Ellington is actually a bit of a compromise between jazz and pop, as I said above. For those of us with that old rock bias, but also a fondness for rock’s ancestors and close cousins, it’s tricky to strike a balance. Most of us don’t want jazz to be shut out completely, but I think we want jazz musicians in the HOA to be truly representative and deserving (rather than “tokens”). Among jazz artists, I think Ella’s in the mix, but in 1960 I think she’s behind Duke, Satchmo, Miles, Billie, and probably Thelonious. And in the next few years she’ll be passed by Mingus and Coltrane.

And then there’s Count Basie, who also has some real proto-rock cred…

Excellent call for Alan Freed
I had forgotten about him
He's the one indeed
I suggest the shadow man had a special slot beside the others, and in the same ballot
So each year we would have one more inductee.

About jazz : a big band leader would be a good idea. Rock and popular music in general would be nothing without them.
Duke is a giant and should be chosen. Count Basie and Lionel Hampton were maybe a bit more rock (using shouters like JImmy Rushing) but Ellington influenced pop too.
ABout the jazz divas, I've always found Billie Holiday or Bessie Smith more profound that Ella, who was more polished, more technical.
I would say Bessie with no doubt (but maybe later, she influenced Janis and her "Nobody knows you when you're down and out" was covered by Otis and Clapton), and Billie Holiday.
As you said schleuse the sidemen were very important at that time : radio men, arrangers, supervisors, producers, songwriters. I just realized for instance after comparing Louis Jordan's style to Bill Haley's, that they were both produced by the same guy, Milt Gabler at Decca (who worked with Billie Holiday too).
That is why a book like Charlie Gillett's "Sound of the City" is so useful to understand that era.

Therefore my jazz choices would be Duke and Billie
Armstrong deserves it too, but I'll nominate him later.

This has actually very little to do with the whole concept, but I wanted to see how the Norwegian charts looked compared to the acclaimed list. It's VERY different. Here's the top ten up to Jan 1st 1960, and their most popular song:

1. Elvis Presley - King Creole
2. Cliff Richard - Living Doll
3. Connie Francis - Carolina Moon
4. Kingston Trio - Tom Dooley
5. Chris Barber's Jazz Band - Petite Fleur
6. Ricky Nelson - Never Be Anyone Else But You
7. Vidar Sandbeck - Pengegaloppen
8. Conway Twitty - Mona Lisa
9. Louis Prima - Buona Sera
10. Billy Vaughn - Morgen


No shock with Elvis on top, neither with Cliff on second. He was amazingly popular in Norway at that time. Only one Norwegian musician, Vidar Sandbeck, with Pengegaloppen. I'm posting the song under, but I couldn't find it with Sandbeck, so you get it with Øystein Sunde, one of Norway's finest guitar player (though this time on banjo) instead. I'm guessing Vidar Sandbeck won't be included in the Hall of Acclaim any time soon :D

Fine then. Fire up to 10.


So, introductions are for sissies, right ?
Ithought it was the contrary (only sissies hide their true faces)


Too much of a housewife tradition for me to partake.

Now, does that offend you, or can you take a dry joke?


i ask you sthg politely, and that's how you're answering me ?


If you think you've been polite, think again. All you're noticing is that I appear to be impolite, but stare in da mirror.


I'm not surprised anyway...
Lokks like you prefer to play your smarter-thanthou, higschool philosophy endless talk...
I'm not interested


Is intelligence really that out-of-place around these parts?

If Kant or Goethe came around and posted something, I bet you'd think they were high school philosophy too. Especially with their endless senseless talk and non-sequiturs, yeah?

You know why I bother you? Because I make you feel inferior. And you don't like it. Nope, how dare I disturb your egotrip?

"Damn! I'm feelin' all inferior and shit. How do we fix this?"

And take the route of stupid people throughout history.

"Ah! I know what to do. I'll just assume the person I'm talking to is stupid, and that I'm smart, and that makes my feelings of inferiority go away!"

You do that instead of actually trying to talk to me.

You don't like any challenges to your egotrip, especially if they're from a girl.

At least I'm trying to say something.

Whereas you, nicolas, paraphrasing Martial:


A work isn't long if you can't take anything out of it,
but you, nicolas, write even a couplet too long.


Right.


haha

why not post your picture? or have we already seen it?


What are you implying? That I'm ugly, or there's something wrong with my face, or what? Whatever it is, it's dumb, and you should know better than at least that.


"Take a look around you, and think of your entire life. Condescension is one of the two most common attitudes of humans, together with deference."

Someday you're gonna be really embarrassed you ever wrote that.


You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.

You're bothered that I gave logical arguments for why you had said something absurd.

However, you're taking the typical medieval peasant/high school bully idiot approach:

"If they say something smart, make fun of them smartasses!"

Make an effort and fix it.


but back to some real discussion and an attempt at positivity


Real discussion? You mean boring old "we'll vote for the usual suspects, even if we can't explain why"?

What, can't stomach challenges to your long-standing beliefs?

I thought that was what rock was about. Now you've taken it and turned it into a housewives' resort.


To end with that negativity I've been partially responsible for : I'm in a bad mood these days (job reasons).


Lame excuse. Regardless, I hope you'll feel better soon.

And don't you dare reply with yet another bullshit egotrip post with no content.

And no. I'm not the loser who lets you have the last word. Never again.

mimaiome, you got the last word here. Congratulations.

Schleuse, I suppose there soon is time for a new voting thread anyway, so I'm closing this.

I look forward to the next HOA round, with lots of unchallenged youtube clips that will expand our music knowledge.