Put a Pin on the Map View my Forum Guestmap
Free Guestmaps by Bravenet.com

The Old Acclaimed Music Forum

Go to the NEW FORUM

Music, music, music...
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: New update!

Evan, the links are there. Did you refresh the main page? I had to do that when first looking at some pages.

Bubbling under to No. 233 is quite a jump for that Radiohead track.

Re: New update!

Evan
Does anyone else not see the links to the 2008 and 2009 songs on the main page?

And as everyone else has already said, your updates are exciting and always appreciated! Thanks!


I don't see the links either, even after refreshing.

Re: New update!

Penguin
Evan
Does anyone else not see the links to the 2008 and 2009 songs on the main page?

And as everyone else has already said, your updates are exciting and always appreciated! Thanks!


I don't see the links either, even after refreshing.


Refreshing just worked for me. Give it another shot.

Re: New update!

I noticed when reading through the songs that The Prodigy's "Firestarter" appears in six different of Q's best of decade or best of all time lists. Does this have the same impact on its ranking as would six best of decade/best of all time lists from six different publications? If so, then I think the ranking is inflated because Q has reiterated over and over again that it really likes that song. I also think that it would be really difficult to control that inflation, though. I don't have a big problem with this or anything, I just found that oddity interesting.

Re: New update!

Bite your tongue, HRS! No problems with Joni and Madonna running neck and neck (and she managed to move up, despite being on fewer added lists than Madge for this update).

Re: New update!

It's interesting to note that out of the top ten artists of all time, neither The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, David Bowie, Radiohead, Led Zeppelin, The Who, or Jimi Hendrix have 1 top song for any year.

Re: New update!

Evan
I noticed when reading through the songs that The Prodigy's "Firestarter" appears in six different of Q's best of decade or best of all time lists. Does this have the same impact on its ranking as would six best of decade/best of all time lists from six different publications? If so, then I think the ranking is inflated because Q has reiterated over and over again that it really likes that song. I also think that it would be really difficult to control that inflation, though. I don't have a big problem with this or anything, I just found that oddity interesting.
I do control such inflation! It makes the calculations take much longer time, but it's worth it...

Re: New update!

AM uses old-fashioned html code and frames and you need to delete cached internet files. The best thing is to go into tools somewhere and delete all files. Alternatively you have to right-click on a particular frame and choose refresh frame.

Re: New update!

Well, don't expect to hear anything from me before Christmas; I'm going to need at least that much time to update my iTunes to reflect the new list.

I can't wait.

Re: New update!

Great update particularly fascinting to see how the decade lists affected everything the rankings over the past few years. Particularly noteworthy that the top songs were Hip-hop flavoured as it pretty m,uch towered over the last 10 years. Two queries:
1. Did any songs drop out of the AM 3000 + bubbling under from this update?
2. Hervé Bourhis (France) - Le Petit Livre Rock: The Juke Box Singles 1950-2009. If this is included in the year end lists, could that also be the case for Dave Marsh's top40 per year 1954- 1981?

Re: New update!

JR
Bite your tongue, HRS! No problems with Joni and Madonna running neck and neck (and she managed to move up, despite being on fewer added lists than Madge for this update).


They are ALWAYS neck and neck! And Madonna has claimed that she loves Joni and Joni has claimed that Madonna is Nero and popular music went downhill from there.

Mitchell is so outspoken, there's even a video of hers speaking about Suzanne Vega and the latest 'two critical failures under her belt.' She never liked the singers that received comparisons to her. She has a love-hate relationship with Rickie Lee Jones, hates Joan Baez and Janis Joplin. Dislikes the late 80s-early 90s boom of singer/songwriters. Otherwise, she has never spoke a word about Kate Bush nor Joanna Newsom nor Björk nor PJ Harvey and has a lasting admiration for the "truly original" Laura Nyro.

I didn't expect Joni to rose this time, though and I always forgot that Aretha Franklin is still ahead of both - and i guess that PJ Harvey won't take the crown next update.

Re: New update!

Colm D
2. Hervé Bourhis (France) - Le Petit Livre Rock: The Juke Box Singles 1950-2009. If this is included in the year end lists, could that also be the case for Dave Marsh's top40 per year 1954- 1981?


If you're referring to the year-end lists from Marsh and Kevin Stein's THE BOOK OF ROCK LISTS, those are already included.

Re: New update!

Colm D
Great update particularly fascinting to see how the decade lists affected everything the rankings over the past few years. Particularly noteworthy that the top songs were Hip-hop flavoured as it pretty m,uch towered over the last 10 years. Two queries:
1. Did any songs drop out of the AM 3000 + bubbling under from this update?
2. Hervé Bourhis (France) - Le Petit Livre Rock: The Juke Box Singles 1950-2009. If this is included in the year end lists, could that also be the case for Dave Marsh's top40 per year 1954- 1981?
1. You mean if any songs left the site completely? No.
2. This was a mistake. Bourhis compiled the lists in 2009 (I think) so his lists should not have been treated as EOY. I will not update the rankings now, but in the next site update Bourhis list will be an "all-time list" with higher weight.

Re: New update!

Only yesterday I told a friend of mine about Acclaimed Music: "It's a great site, too bad it's no longer updated." Way to make me look like a fool! Well done, Henrik.

Re: New update!

Do you still maintain links to old AM pages to compare previous rankings??

Re: New update!

Henrik
Evan
I noticed when reading through the songs that The Prodigy's "Firestarter" appears in six different of Q's best of decade or best of all time lists. Does this have the same impact on its ranking as would six best of decade/best of all time lists from six different publications? If so, then I think the ranking is inflated because Q has reiterated over and over again that it really likes that song. I also think that it would be really difficult to control that inflation, though. I don't have a big problem with this or anything, I just found that oddity interesting.
I do control such inflation! It makes the calculations take much longer time, but it's worth it...


That's great to hear! Must be a hell of a task.

Re: New update!

Henrik,

Including bubbling under tracks, I noticed that there are 4,879 songs on the spreadsheet.

Do you think that you would ever expand the Top 3000 to a Top 4000 or 5000?

Re: New update!

By the way, I forgot to mention...

Thanks for the update, Henrik! You certainly put a lot of hard work into this every time! :D

Acclaimed Music is hands-down the website I get most excited about to see updates to!

Re: New update!

Daniel
Henrik,

Including bubbling under tracks, I noticed that there are 4,879 songs on the spreadsheet.

Do you think that you would ever expand the Top 3000 to a Top 4000 or 5000?
I might do that sometime in the future, but I really want to be "sure" that no songs outside the bubbling unders would make the list, and right now I'm only sure about the top 3000.

Re: New update!

With the new entries and the songs that fell off the 3000 lists, the bubbling under section grew up to 1879 songs. Almost a list for itself now

Re: New update!

Many thanks for the update, Henrik!

Re: New update!

Great news!

Thanks for this update, Henrik! It sure has been a hard work for you.

Re: New update!

Of all the things to love and hate about the new update, I think these three make me the most happy:
1- Sunday Bloody Sunday in the top 200 (closing in on One)
2- Hallelujah in the top 1000
3- Juicy in the top 1000
Of all the negatives, I'm the most saddened by the fall of All Along the Watchtower out of hte top 100

Re: New update!

Listyguy
Of all the things to love and hate about the new update, I think these three make me the most happy:
1- Sunday Bloody Sunday in the top 200 (closing in on One)
2- Hallelujah in the top 1000
3- Juicy in the top 1000
Of all the negatives, I'm the most saddened by the fall of All Along the Watchtower out of hte top 100


Every time I hear the Hendrix version of All Along the Watchtower I enjoy it more. I wonder why it doesn't improve with time for the critics.

Re: New update!

I can understand why people would think Hey Ya! is too high. But with it up to 19th, every decade from the 1950s on is represented in the top 20, which I think is definitely a good thing.

Re: New update!

Thanks a lot for the outstanding job Henrik!

"Hey Ya!" is a little overhyped, still, it's great, but not Outkast's best, if "Ms. Jackson" was on the Top 100 I think it would be more deserving. Also, sad to see that the songs from "In Utero" have dropped down so much (funny thing that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" ain't even Nirvana's best song and now it's #3 of all time-sure it's awesome and full of energy and probably sums up the whole grunge movement but in terms of sound it lacks the complexity of, say, "Come As You Are" or the pure darkness of "Heart Shaped Box"),

I pray that this "Louie Louie" song someday will leave the Top 100 for good... even the Top 200. "Get Ur Freak On" too. "Crazy In Love" is catchy, but above "Light My Fire"? Or "Walk On The Wild Side"? Or "Layla"? Waaaaaay too much. It's also a shame to see "All Along The Watchtower", "Live Forever" and "Little Red Corvette" out of the Top 100 now. Critics...

Re: New update!

HRS
JR
Bite your tongue, HRS! No problems with Joni and Madonna running neck and neck (and she managed to move up, despite being on fewer added lists than Madge for this update).


They are ALWAYS neck and neck! And Madonna has claimed that she loves Joni and Joni has claimed that Madonna is Nero and popular music went downhill from there.

Mitchell is so outspoken, there's even a video of hers speaking about Suzanne Vega and the latest 'two critical failures under her belt.' She never liked the singers that received comparisons to her. She has a love-hate relationship with Rickie Lee Jones, hates Joan Baez and Janis Joplin. Dislikes the late 80s-early 90s boom of singer/songwriters. Otherwise, she has never spoke a word about Kate Bush nor Joanna Newsom nor Björk nor PJ Harvey and has a lasting admiration for the "truly original" Laura Nyro.

I didn't expect Joni to rose this time, though and I always forgot that Aretha Franklin is still ahead of both - and i guess that PJ Harvey won't take the crown next update.


Joni is certainly outspoken, but what she says is completely geniune and she won't shy away from making harsh criticisms. She has even spoken against close friend Neil Young and Prince. There was some uproar when she spoke against legendary artist, Bob Dylan for plagiarism and deception. She disliked being compared to him "we are like night and day, he and I". I recall reading that Joni had fallen out with Laura Nyro on occassions but she was admittedly still a huge influence nonetheless and inspired her to return to the piano. I think she may come across as a bit cranky and/or jealous, but really she's spent most of her career creating original art and being slammed for it by critics. When an artist like Madonna is gaining more recognition than Joni's work, I too would start questioning where the music industry is going!

Joni doesn't really need to speak of Kate Bush, Joanna Newsom, Bjork or PJ Harvey because she has removed herself from the music industry and cares little for it. I personally feel its a bit weird that the media feels it's necessary to compare all female artists to one another. I personally wouldn't like to compare her to any other female artist, and it may be biased to say, but I feel she was one of the few original rare talents.

Re: New update!

What do you mean, Steve, "an artist like Madonna"? You may not personally care for her (just as I don't some acts who are acclaimed), but there's no denying that she's been among the best in pop music. Just as Joni was one of the best in the music that she did.

Lots of females have talked about how the media/people pit female vs. female, but never do that for men.

Re: New update!

JR
What do you mean, Steve, "an artist like Madonna"? You may not personally care for her (just as I don't some acts who are acclaimed), but there's no denying that she's been among the best in pop music. Just as Joni was one of the best in the music that she did.

Lots of females have talked about how the media/people pit female vs. female, but never do that for men.


There's no denying Madonna's many talents. I thoroughly enjoy her music.

When one makes a statement such as "an artist like Madonna" the meaning is ambiguous. In my view, Steve was intending to draw a clear contrast between Madonna and Joni. Their music is quite different and my take is that Madonna is more pop, dance, and beat oreinted and perhaps provides more superficial messaging than Joni.

But, I would be interested in better understanding the intent that Steve had in making the "artist like Madonna" comment.

Re: New update!

I have nothing against Madonna's music, per say. However, during the time when Madonna was making it big, Joni was being the unfortunate messsanger of important cultural issues in the world, and largely being ignored for it.

Arguably, Madonna's greatest talent is for being an opportunist. She garnered so much attention, I have little reason to doubt she was influential to the next generation. Unfortunately I feel she has had a negative impact on the music industry. We're speaking in generalities of course, but girls must be young and beautiful to have any sort of pop career these days. Madonna might not be the cause for this shallow viewpoint but I wouldn't argue with the opinion that she was a turning point. While the sexual music business is booming, the cultural issues are still just as prevalent now as they were back in the 80's, if not more so.

Re: New update!

Steve E
girls must be young and beautiful to have any sort of pop career these days.

Lady Gaga is NOT beautiful

Or Adele for that matter

Re: lol@whitepeople


Or Jayne Mansfield for that matter




....Madonna IS even worse than post 83-Duran Duran.

Re: New update!

It is fair to say that the history of women in pop music can be divided into before... and after... Madonna. Most of the reasons she garnered so much attention is because of things she did in her work- gender, racial, religious, sexual and social mores in her music, stage shows, videos, etc. She definitely used music as a means for other goals, no doubt about that- and image was about as important as the music at times- but that doesn't negate that the music has been pretty darn great, overall.

What's interesting in this is that as respected and highly regarded as Joni is, she was not a first-year-eligible inductee into the Rock Hall of Fame- among females, only Janis Joplin and Madonna have made it in in their first year of eligibility. Aretha Franklin made it in in the Hall's second year ()she was eligible in the first year).

Re: New update!

Lady Gaga's an exception. She uses wacky makeup and costumes so people don't notice she's not attractive. Plus she capitalized on social networking and benefited a lot from the 'Kanye effect'.

But, Madonna's hardly to blame for that, you can't place all the fault for the way MTV changed the music industry on one woman who happened to be a central figure in MTV's early days.

I don't know to what extent she is creatively involved in her music, but it's probably more than most pop singers and a whole lot less than Joni.

Joni Mitchell's great but she can also be a bit self righteous. One of those people who will rail against capitalism but can't live without the comfort it provides.

Re: New update!

Steve E


Joni is certainly outspoken, but what she says is completely geniune and she won't shy away from making harsh criticisms. She has even spoken against close friend Neil Young and Prince. There was some uproar when she spoke against legendary artist, Bob Dylan for plagiarism and deception. She disliked being compared to him "we are like night and day, he and I". I recall reading that Joni had fallen out with Laura Nyro on occassions but she was admittedly still a huge influence nonetheless and inspired her to return to the piano. I think she may come across as a bit cranky and/or jealous, but really she's spent most of her career creating original art and being slammed for it by critics. When an artist like Madonna is gaining more recognition than Joni's work, I too would start questioning where the music industry is going!

Joni doesn't really need to speak of Kate Bush, Joanna Newsom, Bjork or PJ Harvey because she has removed herself from the music industry and cares little for it. I personally feel its a bit weird that the media feels it's necessary to compare all female artists to one another. I personally wouldn't like to compare her to any other female artist, and it may be biased to say, but I feel she was one of the few original rare talents.


TEAM JONI!

She certainly has points. She knows how this hype machine works. She knew every singer/songwriter after her would be deemed the "new Joni Mitchell". When she got the comparison she'd go and speak of in a good way - the days of Rickie Lee Jones - but many of the times she didn't and she spoke about it. I'm more biased. I believe Mrs. Mitchell is the greatest female artist of all time. I'm glad she's back to the top 50 and ahead of many other bands and artists of any sex. She's a truly music original and a genius. Even after her gold era. She deserves every single acclaim she receives and yet, her later days have been truly underrated. She has spoke of Dylan, and Cat Power and Antony in interview to LA Times. She argued that they were characters and theatrical voices, a path she never took during her career.

The thing is: Joni Mitchell knows she's a genius and a living legend. So when a journalist tries to compare someone that just stormed at the scene and plays an acoustic instrument to her and eventually asks Mitchell herself about this artist is pretty much a sure thing that she won't say nice things. If she doesn't speak of the artist, she speaks of her way of doing music and way it stood time, why she was unique. And she's not wrong. I must say sometimes it sucks to see artists being so conscious about their art and its value, but she's Joni Mitchell after all. Not Lady Gaga nor any sub pop artist. She's actually everything she thinks she is.

I'm against the whole women vs women thing. Joni could have avoided many of the words she has used against Suzanne Vega, Tracy Chapman, Tori Amos, Sheryl Crow etc etc, but she was asked for. Something similar happened with M.I.A. and Joanna Newsom last year when both of them spoke about Lady Gaga and how her music was weak compared to the image management. Suddenly the press went nuts. Newsom even called Madonna a dumbass for being more of a follower these days. It's complicated. It's not only the press that likes to compare the girls - these days everyone is compared to the big 3 (Joanna Newsom, M.I.A., Janelle Monaé - since the girls themselves dislike this behavior and ended up bitting each other. Björk has been more supportive of them. She has spoken great thing about up and coming women in music - including the previous two i cited. Kate Bush should be an example. She's another that take years to release something and is most of the time out of the business, still, she's a class act that never spoke about other females. And she pretty much knows she's a genius and a living legend, too. Joanna Newsom is another that accept comparisons pretty well. I might be a little biased, but reading a lot of her interviews i came to admire the way she deals with the press. If the people who find her pretentious only knew - she's a very sympathetic figure. Natasha Khan has spoke great words about Joanna Newsom - she loves Ys - and Kate Bush and Björk, but didn't share the same feeling towards Tori Amos in a earlier interview. Courtney Love never liked Liz Phair, and Steve Albini always made clear his opinions about her. During her heydays in the 90s, PJ Harvey called the Patti Smith comparisons lame press. This year Smith said the best words about Polly's new single and Harvey finally cited her as influence. She also spoke great words about Anna Calvi. It's amazing how PJ Harvey is untouchable among women. I've seen men speak of her like Elvis Costello, but women respect her a lot. EMA and Bethanne for Best coast have been for a while giving credit to artists like Liz Phair and Kim Deal as influences. I guess it pretty much depends of the artist whereas she will speak nice words, omit herself or criticize.

I don't have much to opine on Madonna. I always saw great singles and consistent to weak albums. I guess she's pretty overrated album-wise, but she does delivered some of the greatest pop singles of all time - maybe that's why it's surprising the fact that she slipped down on the list.

The fact that 95% of the artists compared to Joni Mitchell fell into irrelevance these days pretty much justifies Mitchell's rage when it comes to comparisons. There was a boom of females in the 90s and we basically don't care about them anymore because they were fluke. Imagine you're an artist that peaked at the 70s and since then every single female till these days is compared to your music. The latest is Laura Marling, then, the press finds another one - i like Laura very much, by the way. Once in a while an artist compared to her - or a female singer/songwriter for that matter - stays around strong for more than one or two albums - it's the case of Polly Harvey, Kate Bush, Björk, Joanna Newsom, etc etc

And if a female singer/songwriter isn't compared to Joni, then she's Lucinda Williams territory.

That Tracy Chapman and Alanis are inside the top 500 while others not is a shame. Rickie Lee Jones deserves more attention. Pirates is a masterpiece and her first and fourth album are excellent pieces of music. What about the other Kate Bush records that aren't inside the top 600? Joni's career really died after Hejira? Is every Laura Nyro's name is kicked around but i'm yet to see critics making some difference about her underrated label when it comes to lists. Suzanne Vega's first two albums are strong showings of singer/songwriters in the 80s. There are a lot of females that are pretty much the definition of underrated: Nico, Michelle Shocked, Lydia Lunch, Annette Peacock, Josephine Foster, Marissa Nadler, Lisa Germano, Kristin Hersh, Me'Shell NdegéOcello and many others.

And it's also time to show more respect when it comes to the ones that keep hanging around the middle of the lists: Fiona Apple, Marianne Faithfull, Laurie Anderson, Gillian Welch, Neko Case etc etc. Girls that still have their credit due.

Re: New update!

^ Great post, HRS. Sorry to dumb things down...



Hmmm... In the real world Madonna totally would've won that fight.

Re: New update!

Nah, I's a cool video!

Also: ignore the 'Is Every' before Laura Nyro haha and another thing: female fronted groups like Cocteau Twins, Sleater-Kinney The United States of America and Broadcast also have their credit due. Portishead, Blondie at least are exceptions that are going pretty well!

I'm no feminist - of course - i don't want to say that comparisons and fight among men don't happen - they sure do and they sure get nasty on press, too. It's just a fact that many women are underrated. I'm not a fan of the idea that women need to support each other more, since that ended up giving us lilith fair but they sure need to know how to deal with the press better. They're not Joni Mitchell.

Re: New update!

Her Madgesty didn't fare GREAT on the decade-end lists, so that could have influenced the slight drop in rank (a couple of tracks will see more weight for that French jukebox list, though, which will be moved to the all-time section, but that shouldn't result in a dramatic jump).

HRS, the way you feel about Joni is how I feel about Madonna. And I respect that. :) I became as big a fan as a I am not only because I thoroughly enjoyed the musical work, but also because I was fascinated that a mainstream pop star was doing what she was doing, tackling all sorts of cultural issues, going as far as she was, and giving our culture and society important topics of discussion. All the books/essays devoted to analyzing and dissecting the music, videos, concerts, etc.- it reeled me in to look further into this woman (I was around 14 when I really started delving into her).

One thing that Joni and Madonna have in common- aside from a large level of acclaim- is that they are not afraid to speak their mind. When Joni made the comment, Madonna's spokeswoman responded with this:

“Wow. What can I say? Madonna has always been a huge fan of Joni Mitchell’s. I don’t know what to say. I’m sorry she feels that way. Madonna speaks frequently about her admiration and worship of Joni’s talent. Wow. The feeling isn’t mutual.”

Madge shouldn't feel bad- Joni's dissed some very acclaimed and well-regarded acts, it looks.