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Re: Future games/polls

As far as the non-all time polls are concerned, I'd much prefer polls/games that exclude the top albums and songs that everyone knows already. Basically what I'm saying is, I love games like Unacclaimed or Moderate that allow you to hear those off-the-beaten-path albums that you may not have gotten to otherwise. All-time polls are where we focus on and talk about the classics.

Re: Future games/polls

1.) I missed the 90's poll 1st time around, I am looking forward to it...

2.) The songs list could be very, very interesting with 50+ participants and wide, wide taste in music. Hopefully someone steps up to do one in 2012.

3.) I am planning on starting UMT 2012 on February 6th.

4.) I like the foreign world cup idea.

5.) I am sure there will be a bunch of new games/polls either created or brought back in the coming year.

Right now I have a list of 28 albums I want to check out between now and the end of the year. Thanks to all who make this forum great!!!

Re: Future games/polls

If we don't have the all time and decade polls, I'm oretty sure people around here will kill themselves.
I have an idea for a game, but I think it may be a little repetative:
-Using the style of voting for the decade polls, let AMers rank AM's top 100 albums and songs.

Re: Future games/polls

I don’t see any harm in doing some forward planning. But if we’re going to create a schedule, I’m already a bit lost. So, polls and games with set dates:

- Otisredding’s AMer of the Year game is open from now until the first critics list is published (which will probably be in a week or two – there’s always 1 or 2 British publications that are way too eager)
- 2009 poll to take place in Nov 2011
- End-of-year 2011 poll scheduled for Jan 2012
- 90s poll from Feb to Nov 2012, if we go ahead with it. (I’m sure I’ll enjoy taking part as I didn’t participate last time round, but I really wouldn’t be disappointed if it gets postponed.)


When are these taking place:
- Decade poll (top 100 albums and songs of 2000-2009)?
- Foreign World Cup? Stephan has indicated that it would take 20 weeks (4-5 months). I think it would make sense for it to start in Feb next year so it doesn’t continue into the northern hemisphere’s summer holiday months. (I don't mean to discriminate against AMers from the southern hemisphere - hey, I'm from there originally! It's just that the majority live up north.) Even if a February start coincides with the start of the 90s poll, I don’t think it would matter – it doesn’t take that long to listen to a few songs every week.
- Slick’s UMT from Feb till when?
- Moonbeam’s Unacclaimed Songs?
- Moderate Albums?
- All-time Songs or Artists poll? (Sep – Oct again? I’d personally love a songs poll next year.)
- Any others I’m missing?

Re: Future games/polls

Brad
1) As stated elsewhere, my intention was to run Moderately Acclaimed Albums v.3 beginning in February, but I am open to pushing this back if need be.

Re: Future games/polls

The main focus should really be to spread out the games that require lots of listening.

The decade polls seem to be continuously going, but Moderate and Foreign World Cup can definitely be staggered.

There's no reason to adjust the schedules of things like the UMT though, where participation only takes a minute per day.

Re: Future games/polls

I could probably start the Foreign World Cup this November if that spreads things out more, we'd be well into the preliminaries before hitting the main bulk of the new polls in February.

Re: Future games/polls

BillAdama
The main focus should really be to spread out the games that require lots of listening.

The decade polls seem to be continuously going, but Moderate and Foreign World Cup can definitely be staggered.

There's no reason to adjust the schedules of things like the UMT though, where participation only takes a minute per day.
Good point, I agree.

Re: Future games/polls

I love the 90s and I know way more albums and songs of this decade than 5 years ago, so I'm rooting for this one.
Twisting the rules a little could be a good idea (like as suggested in the beginning of the 00s poll, by taking the top 15 instead of 10 so they would be a bit of surprise for who would reach the top 100 at they end. Drawback, of course, is that you need to find the time to listen to 50 more albums at the end.

Re: Future games/polls

I'd be glad to run the 90s poll next year.

Re: Future games/polls

nicolas
I'd be glad to run the 90s poll next year.
That's fabulous, Nicolas!

And I think we should, like Nassim just said, let 15 albums and songs advance to the final.

What do you think about including one or two of these 15 albums/songs using an additional criterion to the total points in the poll? For example it could be albums that aren't in the top X on AM or albums with less than Y ratings on RYM.

Re: Future games/polls

Henrik

And I think we should, like Nassim just said, let 15 albums and songs advance to the final.

What do you think about including one or two of these 15 albums/songs using an additional criterion to the total points in the poll? For example it could be albums that aren't in the top X on AM or albums with less than Y ratings on RYM.


Hey, that's affirmative action !
15 albums including a quota of underrated albums... Great idea !!
We'll discuss that in a pre-poll thread in January I guess

Re: Future games/polls

How about this:

The 10 albums with the highest point totals qualify and
5 more albums, whose point total out of their top three ballots is highest, and did not make the top 10.

This would allow albums that only three people have heard, but they all think it's the best of the year, to qualify.

Re: Future games/polls

BillAdama
How about this:

The 10 albums with the highest point totals qualify and
5 more albums, whose point total out of their top three ballots is highest, and did not make the top 10.

This would allow albums that only three people have heard, but they all think it's the best of the year, to qualify.
That's an alternative, but I think I have seen in previous polls that such an approach will not only make it easier for lesser known albums to advance but also albums that are wellknown but only loved by a small group of people (while the rest hate it). I'm not saying that it would be wrong to include those albums, but they probably won't have a chance with the scoring method used in the final decade poll.

Re: Future games/polls

BillAdama
This would allow albums that only three people have heard, but they all think it's the best of the year, to qualify.
I like this idea, but at the same time, I would continue to discourage "strategic" voting in this poll.

Re: Future games/polls

I would really like to see the songs poll happen...I've been working away at my Top 2000 for the last couple months in anticipation. :)

What I like about the songs polls is there is more likelihood of variability in results, since there is such a large pool from which to draw. Plus there is something just more personal about the individual lists.

Re: Future games/polls

Henrik
BillAdama
How about this:

The 10 albums with the highest point totals qualify and
5 more albums, whose point total out of their top three ballots is highest, and did not make the top 10.

This would allow albums that only three people have heard, but they all think it's the best of the year, to qualify.
That's an alternative, but I think I have seen in previous polls that such an approach will not only make it easier for lesser known albums to advance but also albums that are wellknown but only loved by a small group of people (while the rest hate it). I'm not saying that it would be wrong to include those albums, but they probably won't have a chance with the scoring method used in the final decade poll.


I'm personally of the thought though that I'd rather hear an album that some people love and some people hate than one that everybody thinks is 'okay'.

Maybe tinker with the ratio, make it 12-3 instead of 10-5?

Re: Future games/polls

BillAdama
I'm personally of the thought though that I'd rather hear an album that some people love and some people hate than one that everybody thinks is 'okay'.
Of course, that's what I aimed for too. Anyway, Brad made the most important comment that we should not have a rule that encourages strategic voting.

Re: Future games/polls

We don't really have any troublemakers here who will take advantage though, do we? I mean, anyone who wants to can manually count up the votes before they cast theirs.

I think on some forums it would encourage strategic voting, but here, I think most of us are mature enough to play faithfully.

Re: Future games/polls

1) A planning/schedule would be great, if not by all means necessary.

2) Yes, 90s poll please. Due to a break of over 2 years, I totally missed out on the 70s and earlier polls, but it would be fun to do the 90s again. I agree with the point of strategic voting, so to avoid that, I would just let 15 albums per year qualify. And each album should be able to qualify, why only AM ranked albums?

3) All-time songs poll would be great to do in 2012. Since half a year I am working on a complete redo of my own song lists. This is done by going back in time and so far, I only got as far as 1993. Finishing this before 2012 is going to be very tough.

4) There are many game/poll ideas that I haven't read yet. And guess what, I have an idea for a game myself. To avoid overloading, I would suggest to pick one and start that in 2012, first we have the EOY polls coming up, right?

Re: Future games/polls

Is anybody going to take charge of the songs poll? This should be the next major one that we do.

Re: Future games/polls

BillAdama
I'm personally of the thought though that I'd rather hear an album that some people love and some people hate than one that everybody thinks is 'okay'.


Good point, I agree.

By changing the points for the album/song position, we can influence this. I think the first 20 positions get points with some distribution from 1 up to 50 points. How about giving the top 5 or so more points to distinguish the 'love' from the 'okay'?

Re: Future games/polls

Jackson
Is anybody going to take charge of the songs poll? This should be the next major one that we do.


Maybe we can give the albums poll a few months to sink in.

200 songs (same as albums) getting points and welcoming those userlists...whose palett is larger/wider/deeper/bigger.

Results in by january 2012?

Re: Future games/polls

About the 90s poll system, I think we should make tests with the 2000s results. I like the idea of 15 albums qualifying, including a quota of underrated albums. Why not qualifying the first non anglophone album too ?
We could grab an old decade spreadsheet, test the various systems and se what co;es out (those damned qwerty british keyboards)

Re: Future games/polls

I can take the song poll if nobody else wants to step up.

Re: Future games/polls

Moonbeam
I can take the song poll if nobody else wants to step up.


That would be awesome. I'm already working on mine as I go for a list of at least 800

Re: Future games/polls

I really like the idea of a "foreign album clause" - at least 1 (maybe 2?) album(s) from each year of the 90s must be non UK, non US. Those albums would probably be at the bottom of the final list, but whatever, at least we broaden our horizons.

Re: Future games/polls

Jackson
Moonbeam
I can take the song poll if nobody else wants to step up.


That would be awesome. I'm already working on mine as I go for a list of at least 800

366 songs

The last song currently is "Red Army Blues" with Waterboys. And I just recently discovered "A Day In The Life" to be less good than I use to think...

Re: Future games/polls

At some point in time I think we should do a poll about our favorite singers/vocals.

Re: Future games/polls

Zorg
I really like the idea of a "foreign album clause" - at least 1 (maybe 2?) album(s) from each year of the 90s must be non UK, non US. Those albums would probably be at the bottom of the final list, but whatever, at least we broaden our horizons.


I think they would end up in the middle, because they'd get the fewest votes.

And I'd like to think the people who did listen to them wouldn't automatically dislike them because they weren't in English. So here's a proposal:

15 albums advance per year:
-Top 12 point getters
-Top point getter that is not Anglophone, or if that is in the top 12, the 13th highest point getter
-Top 2 point getters based on the highest 3 votes, other than the 13 already qualified

Re: Future games/polls

When I posted my top 10 albums that didn't make the cut in the '00s poll I came to think about one more way to decide the 150 albums and songs for the future decade polls - a round of "rags to riches".

We could preliminary select 150 albums and songs, either just by counting points or as BillAdama suggested above. Then, after the last yearly poll we could do a round of "rags to riches" where we list our favorite 10 or 20 albums outside the 150 and our least favorite 10 or 20 albums among the 150. Following our votes, we would then replace 10 or 20 albums/songs (rags) with 10 or 20 new ones (riches). This round should take a week at a maximum.

This might be unnecessary complicated and delay the decade poll, but I thought I would give it a shot.

Re: Future games/polls

Very interesting idea Henrik

My idea was to qualify 100 songs in the year per year polls as we did last year then qualify the remaining 50 on a global scale, to correct the year by year bias.

I'll open a special thread next week about the 90's poll so we can discuss the voting system. I'll be open to your suggestions.

Re: Future games/polls

I would rather just select 130 albums (top 10 + 1 foreign + 2 with highest average for each year for instance) and then pick 20 others regarding of the years than take 20 albums out.
First because it would be a horrible source of frustration (I would have hated to see Visitor go out this way for instance) and because some of the most polarizing albums (let's say Trout Mask Replica, Screamadelica or lots of metal and hip-hop albums) would stand no chance with this system, while their support might help them end relatively high on the final list.
I am pretty sure this would hurt love-hate albums much more than albums no one really cares about, and I don't think it is a good thing.