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Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Yeah the number of ballots never reaches a critical mass. One more ballot and the top 10 an still change, that's why we shouldn' pat so much attention in short range differences between rankings.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Yeah! Fleet Foxes keep their position in the top 80. It's really good to see that gem of an album ranking among stablished classics like Daydream Nation, Soft Bulletin, Transformer and Morning Glory. The most impressive thing of their music is that they make it seem so easy for everyone to compose and perform those tracks. The first time I heard it in 2008, my first active year on AM, I thought to myself: great to know good albums like this are things that appear every now and then. But no, since then nothing with the same flow and effortless musicality has appeared anymore, even though there are a few more recent albums above it in my own list. And, nicolas, I don't consider that their "jam" moments hurt the album, in fact, it makes for the audition always turning into a pleasing travel. I consider "He Doesn't Know Why" my favorite song of last decade.

Time to make some comments about the top 200-101:

- I don't remember where Fear of Music placed last times, but it was an awesome surprise to see it near the top 150. For me it's one of the most underrated albums ever, topping even the unique Remain In Light. The Heads appear there at their most urgent, creating a threatening climate that I have never found in another album. Sometimes it really seems the music is persecuting you (Cities, Memories Can't Wait, Air), while Heaven must be their most poignant song.
- Didn't expect to see Reckoning so high. I also consider it R.E.M's best album after their 2 big ones.
- Well, even if I had a little hope of seeing Parklife back to top 100, I accept it's rank. At least it looks to have stablished a position among the classic ones, in the contrary of other Britpop acts that seem to be fading as time passes. It has been my all time #2 for half a decade (I began listening to "music" in 2005) and can't see it going down.
- Of course the hugest surprise of it all is Vampire Weekend at #118. I always thought I was a bit alone in liking that album so much. Like VanillaFire1000 has said, much of it's appeal comes from it's way of combining afropop melodies and textures to their new wave influences, creating a beautiful musical landscape as well as a fresh and clean sound. Now get this style and with it create perfect pop tracks like "Boston", the synthy "One", the running "Walcott", the soaring-savannah-feel "The Kids Don't Stand a Chance", not to mention the 5 leading and almost equally acclaimed tracks, and then you have one of the masterpieces of last decade. Many may consider I'm exagerating for such a recent album, but it has been slowly rising in my all time list since it's discovery until surprisingly reaching the top 10 this time.
- Glad to see Paul's Boutique as the 2nd best '80s rap album. Another one I didn't expect to see this high.
- Last, another of my deceptions was the fall of Surfer Rosa, which had been near number 50 in the last two polls. I consider it a much better and more cohesive piece than Doolittle.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

The lyric from "All My Friends" is definitely "I wouldn't trade one stupid decision for another five years of life."

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Moonbeam
The lyric from "All My Friends" is definitely "I wouldn't trade one stupid decision for another five years of life."


I always thought it was this too but then a lyrics site convinced me otherwise. I like the line more with "life" anyway, so I should have put that. I really wish this forum had editing capabilities sometimes...

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Jackson
Moonbeam
The lyric from "All My Friends" is definitely "I wouldn't trade one stupid decision for another five years of life."


I always thought it was this too but then a lyrics site convinced me otherwise. I like the line more with "life" anyway, so I should have put that. I really wish this forum had editing capabilities sometimes...


"Life" makes total sense with the lyrics. He's going back and forth in this midlife crisis between defiant defense of how he lived (as in that line) and exasperated fear about how fleeting it all is.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Particle Analyst
Jonathon
Particle Analyst
BillAdama
Viva Pubilc Enemy, #1 rap album! Much deserved.


Amen!

Also: Very happy for Reed's masterpiece to be up there ( gained a higher place too? Next year somebody must organize a campaign for its entrance on the Top 50!). And yeah, "( What's The Story?) Morning Glory" is definitely the greatest thing britpop ever produced and one of the most important albums of the '90s era. A work that contains almost everything, from psychedelia ("Champagne Supernova") to back-to-the-roots rhythmic rock sound ("Some Might Say") and melancholic acoustic ballads ("Cast No Shadow"). Pity that the rather good but also overrated "Daydream Nation" finished above both of them.


I've always considered most Brit Pop very surfacey, and ultimately disposable. Oasis is no exception to this rule. (Morning Glory) is a great album, but not imo not worth the high measure of esteem placed on it by the british press.

Sonic Youth, on the other hand, is one of the most innovative bands of the last 30 years, and Daydream Nation is their pinnacle. So let's just agree to disagree.

Not liking britpop is actually great, as is the difference in taste that discreets every human being and makes this nasty world a somewhat better place.

But calling it disposable? Really? Not only have the influences in modern "alternative" music been so obvious from the '00s and on according to the style of many current bands (Arctic Monkeys, Coldplay, Kaiser Chiefs, Franz Ferdinand, Kasabian, The Libertines, The Coral etc.) which is of course not always good since they sometimes imitate too much or others, not necessarily among the ones I mentioned, are worthless acts, but the fact is they wouldn't even exist without that noise. And yes, britpop helped guitar music a lot to gain a new "genre branch" after the ending of the grunge era. In general, despite it being a firework of a movement (starting impressively, then fading away suddenly) it gave a good amount of the '90s music status definiton and delivered a bunch of true masterworks, actually very different the one from the other and with something in every each one of them for anyone to like ("(What's The Story?) Morning Glory", "Urban Hymns", "Different Class", "Parklife", "Suede", "Definitely Maybe"). And since when heavy promotion by the british press makes an album less good (which "Morning Glory" didn't have in the first place since it gained lukewarm reviews at the time it was released)? "OK Computer" gained acclaim reaching borderline propaganda when it first came out, again by the british press, but does that mean it's not a mind-blowing masterpiece exploring depths with its experimental noise we could only imagine of during that era? Surely not.

Now about Sonic Youth, yeah, their music was influentual too, especially for the college rock genre, and kinda had some roots on The Velvet Underground as well. I just never was mad about them. "Daydream Nation" has quite some amazing moments ("Candle", "Teen Age Riot") but its repetition factor makes it somewhat tiresome after a while, and most of the lyrics feel like they tried too much to be "different" with a result that seems overblown (exceptions are "Hey Joni" and "Rain King"). Anyway, it's definitely their best work but severely flawed and since they don't mean that much to me this was my short, hackneyed, but honest verdict. Hope I didn't become too much of a bore



I shouldn't have written the whole genre off, In fact I probably have 5-6 Brit pop albums in my top 200, I just think many of the bands from that movement are criminally overrated on AM. I just don't consider Blur or Oasis nearly as important as a lot of people do. If I was putting them where I think they'd be fairly ranked, it would be in the maybe 90-120 of all time range, rather than the 45-55 range in which they reside on AM.

Many of the bands you listed are pretty derivative. Franz Ferdinand is kind of cool, but the Arctic Monkeys never did very much for me, nor do the Libertines. The other bands never grabbed me long enough to even give them a second listen.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Nick

I totally agree, I'm a pretty big britpop fan myself and I always get a little disheartened when people entirely write it off.

Bands like Blur and Pulp crafted excellent pop music while at the same time conveying very deep messages, primarily ones about the intricacies of British life in the 1990's.

While Oasis never made "smart" music, I wouldn't ever call them disposable. Apparently I'm the biggest "Morning Glory" fan on this site, so I think I should defend them.

Oasis don't have particularly deep lyrics. They don't have bad lyrics, just ones that are (for the most part) kind of meaningless. And that's okay. Because to me it's not about the lyrics, it's about the way the songs make me feel. "Morning Glory" could be the definitive guide to how to craft a pop song. You have the sprawling "Champagne Supernova", the soaring ballad of "Don't Look Back in Anger", the life affirming anthems of "Roll With It", and "Some Might Say", the endearing "Wonderwall", and 5 other really great pop songs. Everything sounds like it could be a single. The album sounds just like a greatest hits album would.

What separates "Morning Glory" from disposable pop? For one thing the bold attitude that the songs convey. Some might say (no pun intended) that the music is loud and rude, however I disagree. To me it simply sounds like the music of a couple of guys who are really really excited about life and about being alive. If there's one consistent message of theme that runs through the album it's about being happy. That sounds mundane, but when I listen to the album the term that instantly comes to mind is "life affirming".
The album is loud. Everything part of the instrumentation (particularly the guitars) creates spirited atmosphere. To borrow a term from Phil Spector, there's like a "wall of sound" that envelops the album. I don't know how else to explain it. Maybe it's in the layered guitars. Just everything about the album sounds big and bold. This isn't some faint disposable pop we're hearing, these are big audacious anthems.

Another common criticism is that the music is "derivative". First of all, maybe this is just out of pure ignorance, but I have never ever heard any albums that sound like "Definitely Maybe" or "Morning Glory". No other albums have managed to capture that same distinctive "wall" of sound that I hear when I put on either of those albums. I understand that Oasis are influenced by The Beatles, but I honestly would never mistake a Beatles song for an Oasis one. Furthermore, britpop itself is heavily based on the music of bands like The Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, and especially, The Smiths. Oasis sound like none of these bands.

In the end, there are albums that are smarter than "Morning Glory". There are albums that are more experimental. There are albums that are more complex, more deep, and made by more likable people. But in terms of pure fun, great hooks, and a bold, unashamed love of life, "Morning Glory" does it for me.


Wow, that's all actually very well said. I have nothing else to add, just that probably you covered it all in the aspect of this album (though I'd only say that some partial influences are obvious like The Stone Roses-they surely don't sound exactly the same but "Champagne Supernova" would sound somewhat different, at least in its opening without them and "Roll With It" is a brilliant and lively homage to the sound of The Beatles with the Gallaghers' touch of course).

I agree with BillAdama too about how music industry finally "forces" britpop albums especially to succeed with disappointing results overall.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Jonathon
Particle Analyst
Jonathon
Particle Analyst
BillAdama
Viva Pubilc Enemy, #1 rap album! Much deserved.


Amen!

Also: Very happy for Reed's masterpiece to be up there ( gained a higher place too? Next year somebody must organize a campaign for its entrance on the Top 50!). And yeah, "( What's The Story?) Morning Glory" is definitely the greatest thing britpop ever produced and one of the most important albums of the '90s era. A work that contains almost everything, from psychedelia ("Champagne Supernova") to back-to-the-roots rhythmic rock sound ("Some Might Say") and melancholic acoustic ballads ("Cast No Shadow"). Pity that the rather good but also overrated "Daydream Nation" finished above both of them.


I've always considered most Brit Pop very surfacey, and ultimately disposable. Oasis is no exception to this rule. (Morning Glory) is a great album, but not imo not worth the high measure of esteem placed on it by the british press.

Sonic Youth, on the other hand, is one of the most innovative bands of the last 30 years, and Daydream Nation is their pinnacle. So let's just agree to disagree.

Not liking britpop is actually great, as is the difference in taste that discreets every human being and makes this nasty world a somewhat better place.

But calling it disposable? Really? Not only have the influences in modern "alternative" music been so obvious from the '00s and on according to the style of many current bands (Arctic Monkeys, Coldplay, Kaiser Chiefs, Franz Ferdinand, Kasabian, The Libertines, The Coral etc.) which is of course not always good since they sometimes imitate too much or others, not necessarily among the ones I mentioned, are worthless acts, but the fact is they wouldn't even exist without that noise. And yes, britpop helped guitar music a lot to gain a new "genre branch" after the ending of the grunge era. In general, despite it being a firework of a movement (starting impressively, then fading away suddenly) it gave a good amount of the '90s music status definiton and delivered a bunch of true masterworks, actually very different the one from the other and with something in every each one of them for anyone to like ("(What's The Story?) Morning Glory", "Urban Hymns", "Different Class", "Parklife", "Suede", "Definitely Maybe"). And since when heavy promotion by the british press makes an album less good (which "Morning Glory" didn't have in the first place since it gained lukewarm reviews at the time it was released)? "OK Computer" gained acclaim reaching borderline propaganda when it first came out, again by the british press, but does that mean it's not a mind-blowing masterpiece exploring depths with its experimental noise we could only imagine of during that era? Surely not.

Now about Sonic Youth, yeah, their music was influentual too, especially for the college rock genre, and kinda had some roots on The Velvet Underground as well. I just never was mad about them. "Daydream Nation" has quite some amazing moments ("Candle", "Teen Age Riot") but its repetition factor makes it somewhat tiresome after a while, and most of the lyrics feel like they tried too much to be "different" with a result that seems overblown (exceptions are "Hey Joni" and "Rain King"). Anyway, it's definitely their best work but severely flawed and since they don't mean that much to me this was my short, hackneyed, but honest verdict. Hope I didn't become too much of a bore



I shouldn't have written the whole genre off, In fact I probably have 5-6 Brit pop albums in my top 200, I just think many of the bands from that movement are criminally overrated on AM. I just don't consider Blur or Oasis nearly as important as a lot of people do. If I was putting them where I think they'd be fairly ranked, it would be in the maybe 90-120 of all time range, rather than the 45-55 range in which they reside on AM.

Many of the bands you listed are pretty derivative. Franz Ferdinand is kind of cool, but the Arctic Monkeys never did very much for me, nor do the Libertines. The other bands never grabbed me long enough to even give them a second listen.


OK, I can understand that. There are genres and bands that I consider overrated or not that memorable too, and so everyone else so I can understand you. Not sure if I'll mention them now since this is not the subject but your opinion is well written and stated.

Actually the examples I mentioned are somewhat randomly scattered, but I have to admit though that, "X&Y" excepted, Coldplay is to me a guilty pleasure though of course not being among the "one of the greatest rank" I also think "Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not" and "Up The Bracket" are very good, solid works.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

My guess is that Ok Computer will probably take the top spot *Roll of the eyes*. I like Radiohead, but I think we have a little bit of unbalance here.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

@BIllAdama : No, I didn't realize that The Bends were in the top 40. that's even more ridiculous IMO. But not surprising. Thank you for telling me I won't be shocked
That just means that like the Beatles, the Stones or Dylan, Radiohead has become a solid reference and common ground for a lot of us (I only had OK Computer in the 70-80 section, especially the youngest (I wish there were age/country statistics). And that they released a sufficient number of acclaimed albums to place 4 of them in the top 50.
I'm really happy that the 4 great Rollling Stones albums of the 68-72 tetralogy are in the top 50 (or 60 I don't remember).

@Jackson : I'd love to have the spreadshett when this will be over. You can send it to Henrik and he'll post it on the site.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

I'm not getting the high placement of In Rainbows either. I'm warming up to Radiohead somewhat (although I feel that Björk does their kind of thing far, far better) and OK Computer and Amnesiac are slowly inching their way up my list. I gave In Rainbows a spin, and while it's decent, it would perhaps just make my top 500. Maybe with time my perception of it will grow, but it's got a fair way to go to even catch up with those 2 other albums of theirs for me.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

On Oasis:

begin{troll}

My musical history seems to follow somewhat of a different path to most. While many people cite their teenage years as the pinnacle of music, the 1990s proved to be a rather barren wasteland for me. Before the Internet provided universal access, MTV and the radio were my only sources for new music, and I largely tuned out from both early in the decade. Of course, the biggest successes were unavoidable. Oasis, and particularly "Wonderwall", were one such example, and their ubiquity did nothing but confirm my disdain for contemporary pop music. I eventually came around to appreciate some of what was popular during the 1990s, but listening to (What's the Story) Morning Glory? in its entirety merely reminded me that I was by and large correct in my original assessment.

There are many things I dislike about Oasis' sound, but foremost is undoubtedly the vocals. I imagine I may have to consult a thesaurus to fill out the rest of this review in describing their particular combination of "bratty" and "jarring", but needless to say that Liam Gallagher's vocals are incredibly irritating. From the way that he replaces the consonant "t" with "ch", to the way he sometimes tacks on a "z" at the end of "d" sounds, to the general slurring of the lyrics that creates a tone best described as snotty repugnance (no thesaurus yet!), the result is a delivery that is positively horrifying. Consider, for instance, the opening line of the aforementioned abomination "Wonderwall": "Choodayyy iz gunna Bee tha dayy that they're gunna throw it Back choo yeewww. Byyy nowww you shoulda somehowww realiiized what ya gotta dzoo." And that's before he painfully extends the vowels in the chorus! Sheer horror. Add to that the unrelenting loudness of the production, pretentious aspirations to revive the sound of The Beatles and lyrics that sound like an endless whiny diatribe and the result is one giant, drunken mass of smug obnoxiousness. The band seems to garner most of its acclaim from its sense of melody that should theoretically permit them to stretch the songs into the mini-epics that they aspire to be, but with such abhorrent delivery and production, my hatred for these songs only grows with the runtime. Softer moments such as "Cast No Shadow" and the beginning of "Hello" are tainted by that annoying acoustic strumming that was so prevalent in the latter half of the 90s, and the opportunity for a reprieve when Noel Gallagher steps in to mercifully provide some more palatable lead vocals on "Don't Step Back in Anger" is ruined by the most hamfisted send-up of limp Beatles anthemizing on the record. The least offensive tracks here such as "She's Electric" and "Morning Glory" are nonetheless at least mildly churlish.

As expected, then, (What's the Story) Morning Glory? is a titanic catastrophe of an experience. Fellow Britpop ambassadors Blur and Pulp thankfully fare much better, and this album is so aggravating that it gives me a sick sort of pleasure knowing how much such a statement would infuriate the incendiary Gallagher boys. I alluded to referring to a thesaurus in this review, so I'll close with an entry for "snotty", as "bratty" was not available:

Main Entry: snotty
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: arrogant
Synonyms: cheeky, cocky, conceited, fresh, haughty, high and mighty, highfalutin', impertinent, know-it-all, la-de-da, pompous, pretentious, puffed up, sassy, self-important, smart-alecky, smug, snippy, snobby, snooty, stuck-up, uppity

Right on.

end{troll}

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Moonbeam


begin{troll}
My musical history seems to follow somewhat of a different path to most. While many people cite their teenage years as the pinnacle of music, the 1990s proved to be a rather barren wasteland for me. Before the Internet provided universal access, MTV and the radio were my only sources for new music, and I largely tuned out from both early in the decade. Of course, the biggest successes were unavoidable.


Another thing that we have in common. I had the same musical history ten years earlier. Just replace the 90's with the 80's and you get the picture. And there was no such thing as MTV in 80's France (but a great TV show called "Les Enfants du rock"). So I was most of the time buried under the synths. Hence my synth trauma. History retained the good, but there was a lot of bad in everyday synth music in the 80s. I was abused by synths when I was a teenager.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

nicolas
History retained the good, but there was a lot of bad in everyday synth music in the 80s.


Impossible!

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Moonbeam
nicolas
History retained the good, but there was a lot of bad in everyday synth music in the 80s.


Impossible!




Sausage fest... Appropriate for a no-girl forum

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

[29] The Rolling Stones | Exile on Main St. | 1972
Points: 3027 | Votes: 28 | AM Rank: 8 | 2009 Poll Rank: 15 (-14)

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Jackson
THAT album won't be controversial to most of the forum. While I personally don't understand its appeal, it's definitely not coming out of nowhere.

@Henry I think the high rankings for Forever Changes and Marquee Moon suggest that they won't decline. Albums that are more popular now than when they were released seem like the least likely candidates to decline. I agree about the Stone Roses and the Strokes; those might strike future generations as 'you had to be there' albums to some extent, though both feature great timeless pop songwriting.


Jackson, your reasoning regarding Forever Changes and Marquee Moon is quite strong. In a few years, I may see their fate the same way you do.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Consider the list deleted, all apologies.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Yes, one of the best features of this poll in comparison to the last ones, along with the higher rate of discussion, is that we've had almost no spoilers thus far.
Zorg, if THAT album is the one I have I mind, and considering the few things I know about your taste, than I think you would love it.

Well, even though I think some albums must really go lower on next decades, I don't think it applies to The Strokes or The Stone Roses. Is This It, beside its almost perfect tracklist, was an album that gave the start up for that 180º lurch that happened to rock ten years ago, defining all the decade's sound; and you know critics love this kind of things. The Stone Roses, well, kind of made the same thing for British '90s, as underrated as that period looks to be. I wasn't there when it was released, but still have never considered it dated. Besides the tipical '80s reverbs, the production, specially those shining guitars, put the album in a kind of those so discussed "musical time capsules". Maybe I'm a bit biased by my own love for the album, it's my #6, but 22 years are already a good period to know how the album has survived to the test of time.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Evan
Eh, not sure how hard classic rock is truly falling in this poll. For one thing, some of the most "classic-y" classic rock is rising - namely, Zeppelin IV. Two Rolling Stones albums rose, and two fell - not sure what that says about classic rock exactly. I'm not sure there's enough here to identify a significant trend. Albums of all genres are rising and falling, and I think it might have to do more with the randomness of who participates in the poll. It would be interesting to see if there are any trends in albums rising or falling consistently since 2005.


I didn't mean they were going down in rank from last time, I meant they were falling short of the very top. All the names like Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin are falling short of the highest reaches. It looks like about two thirds alt-pop at the top.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

BillAdama
Evan
Eh, not sure how hard classic rock is truly falling in this poll. For one thing, some of the most "classic-y" classic rock is rising - namely, Zeppelin IV. Two Rolling Stones albums rose, and two fell - not sure what that says about classic rock exactly. I'm not sure there's enough here to identify a significant trend. Albums of all genres are rising and falling, and I think it might have to do more with the randomness of who participates in the poll. It would be interesting to see if there are any trends in albums rising or falling consistently since 2005.


I didn't mean they were going down in rank from last time, I meant they were falling short of the very top. All the names like Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin are falling short of the highest reaches. It looks like about two thirds alt-pop at the top.


That's true. Some more recent albums have infiltrated the very top; of course it still has a very classical slant, but it has more unconventional selections than most all-time lists (RS).

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

I'm also guessing "that" album is Automatic for the People (not a spoiler, since I don't actually know, just a guess).

edit: I can delete this if people think it's out of bounds.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

I'm going to be out of town over the weekend, so the unveiling of the top 20 will resume late on Sunday.

As for your guesses, one person got it right, but I voted Blood on the Tracks and Remain in Light in my top 100, so I'm definitely not disappointed or confused by their rankings!

This, by the way, is a fantastic group of albums. The gain for Odessey and Oracle was one of my favorite developments of the poll.



"God knows where we're heading"





[25] Marvin Gaye | What's Going On | 1971

Points: 3128 | Votes: 27 | AM Rank: 6 | 2009 Poll Rank: 18 (-7)
Biggest Fan: Antonius (2)



"My God
What have I done?"






[24] Talking Heads | Remain in Light | 1980

Points: 3142 | Votes: 27 | AM Rank: 35 | 2009 Poll Rank: 37 (+13)
Biggest Fan: Andre (1)



"The warmth of your love's like the warmth of the sun"




[23] The Zombies | Odessey & Oracle | 1968

Points: 3168 | Votes: 28 | AM Rank: 316 | 2009 Poll Rank: 50 (+27)
Biggest Fan: Jackson (7)



"I was hoping it was a lie"




[22] Neil Young | After the Gold Rush | 1970

Points: 3237 | Votes: 28 | AM Rank: 44 | 2009 Poll Rank: 28 (+6)
Biggest Fan: Schwah (2)



"Has the world changed or have I changed?"




[21] The Smiths | The Queen Is Dead | 1986

Points: 3246 | Votes: 31 | AM Rank: 28 | 2009 Poll Rank: 14 (-7)
Biggest Fan: Midaso (1)

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

now, 25-21 starts with a real baad news

[25] Marvin Gaye | What's Going On | 1971

My #11

Nicolas is shocked

1. Because Qaddafi was shot yesterday
2. Because he got fired today
3. Because Marvin Gaye lost 7 spots to #26

Making this poll's list I realized how much I love What's Going On. A young French guy who started reviewing all AM albums from Pet Sounds made this negative comment about this album being naive in its lyrics. I think this is one of the most human, sincere and straightforward album I've ever heard. The call for help of a desperate man that wants to reconcile with his family and his country. An album about freedom too because he fought hard against Berry Gordy to have the album released like he wanted. And I didn't even mention the music, of this album playing like one long song (like Astral Weeks. there's so much to say about it...

[24] Talking Heads | Remain in Light | 1980
Unranked
Originally not my thing, but I've decided to fight my prejudices. So I'll have to get used to Byrne's robotic way of singing. The music is good though, full of world influences, so this album could be called invention of Vampire Weekend number 2. I'm not sure TH will remain in light in the next polls, or in 10 years when the 80's won't be cool anymore. But good album.

[23] The Zombies | Odessey & Oracle | 1968
My #86. Well, this high ? It's an excellent 60s pop album, but I suspect it's this high because of its lack of immediate success and its "lost gem" status. It's an excellent album, but it deserves IMO a spot near... 86

[22] Neil Young | After the Gold Rush | 1970
It was my favorite NY album long before I discovered this site, and I was surprised it was the most acclaimed. A wonderful collection of songs with sparse arrangements. Neil was burnt out by the CSNY adventure and he wanted something more straightforward, more simple. He wanted something made at once, like int eh 50s and early sixties. The title track with its horn is a wonder; well I'm not gonna list all the songs, they're all great.

[21] The Smiths | The Queen Is Dead | 1986
Ok this forum loves the Smiths. Even my man Greg loves the Smiths (BTW where are you man ? ). they lmust have something that I don't get. So as Hernry says "Please provide an explanation..."


And Jackson, thanks for giving us our Weekend off



Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

***Warning: the following shit fit contains violent and explicit language.***
What the FUCK????
Are You Experienced fell 15 places, Forever Changes fell, and more importantly BOTH LOST TO KID A-WHICH SUCKS!
Glad to see LZIV move up though.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

one person (?)
[24] Talking Heads | Remain in Light | 1980
Unranked
Originally not my thing, but I've decided to fight my prejudices. So I'll have to get used to Byrne's robotic way of singing. The music is good though, full of world influences, so this album could be called invention of Vampire Weekend number 2. I'm not sure TH will remain in light in the next polls, or in 10 years when the 80's won't be cool anymore. But good album.

[23] The Zombies | Odessey & Oracle | 1968
My #86. Well, this high ? It's an excellent 60s pop album, but I suspect it's this high because of its lack of immediate success and its "lost gem" status. It's an excellent album, but it deserves IMO a spot near... 86

[21] The Smiths | The Queen Is Dead | 1986
Ok this forum loves the Smiths. Even my man Greg loves the Smiths (BTW where are you man ? ). they lmust have something that I don't get. So as Henry says "Please provide an explanation..."



I could see Odessey & Oracle, The Queen Is Dead, and Remain in Light dropping substantially over the next decade.

I discovered the Smiths through this forum, even though I had heard some of their songs previously and enjoyed them. In my view, Morrissey's vocals are typically pitch perfect and heart felt. Before I listened intently his vocals didn't stand out to me as anything so special. But, the more I listen to the Smiths and to Morrissey's solo output, the more I appreciate his consistently superb vocal delivery.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

one person (?)
[24] Talking Heads | Remain in Light | 1980
Unranked
Originally not my thing, but I've decided to fight my prejudices. So I'll have to get used to Byrne's robotic way of singing. The music is good though, full of world influences, so this album could be called invention of Vampire Weekend number 2. I'm not sure TH will remain in light in the next polls, or in 10 years when the 80's won't be cool anymore. But good album.


In the world of music critics, Remain in Light have always been a steady participant in many all-time album polls. So in 10 years, I reckon they still will be, it has nothing to do with the 80's being cool or not.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

nicolas
Moonbeam
nicolas
History retained the good, but there was a lot of bad in everyday synth music in the 80s.


Impossible!




Sausage fest... Appropriate for a no-girl forum


Hey, I kind of liked that. Give me that over about half of our top 100 at least! The spectacularly cheesy video put it over the top.

In terms of lame synth music in the 80s, I'd probably nominate something more along the lines of J. Geils Band and Huey Lewis and the News, but even they are somewhat rescued in my eyes because of the synths. Guess I'm just a synth junkie.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Guys, if you wanted more clues on what THAT album could be, just check out my ballot. 9 of my top 50 haven't shown up yet, and 4 of those are in my top 10. Every album that could be has been mentioned though, so all of you are great guessers.

But I guess looking at my ballot spoils the fun of it. All of the albums left anyway are classics.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Moonbeam
nicolas
Sausage fest... Appropriate for a no-girl forum


Hey, I kind of liked that. Give me that over about half of our top 100 at least! The spectacularly cheesy video put it over the top.
I don't get this discussion. It's a half-guitar band...

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Odyssey and Oracle is becoming a lost discovery in a lot of indie circles. The people on the old Metacritic forum loved it too. But, I'm surprised it got all the way to #23. I mean, I like it, but it's far from my top.

I think Funeral is going to hit top 10. It's awesome to see 3 Dylans in the top 20. I only expected two, and my third guess wouldn't have been that one.

My top ten prediction: Beatles x 5, Dylan x 2, Pet Sounds, Funeral, OK Computer

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

To all those perplexed by some of the albums moving up or down a significant amount of spots, I would guess it's not because tastes have changed that much in the two scant years since the last time an all-time poll was conducted, but it's because there are probably quite a few different voters this time around.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Henrik
Moonbeam
nicolas
Sausage fest... Appropriate for a no-girl forum


Hey, I kind of liked that. Give me that over about half of our top 100 at least! The spectacularly cheesy video put it over the top.
I don't get this discussion. It's a half-guitar band...


And yet I can't hear the guitar in spite of the guy on the right playing so intently. In any case, the synths are certainly predominant, and I find I'm much, much more forgiving of "bad" music with 80s production, and I probably slight "good" music from the 50s, 60s and perhaps 90s because of its production.

Let me put it this way. I like this far more than I probably should because that groove and those synths are just too much to resist. It probably has no rightful place in a list of the "best" 1000 songs ever, but it would unquestionably make my list.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

one person (?)

[21] The Smiths | The Queen Is Dead

So as Henry says "Please provide an explanation..."


The Queen Is Dead is my #96 album at the moment but I never used to get The Smiths either. There was something about the structure of their songs I just didn’t used to like (a lack of hooks and bridges are of course not necessarily a bad thing, but to me it felt like the melodies were going... nowhere. And did the lyrics and style of singing have to be so morbid?)

But sometimes it helps if you know more about the songwriters’ frame of mind at the time of recording, so I did some research on the Smiths and particularly on Morrissey. At the time (and probably still today) Morrissey was clearly very dissatisfied with politics and social norms. He saw them as having a destructive effect on individuals. So it’s no surprise that the characters in his lyrics were often lonely individuals who longed to be loved but ultimately felt confined by the world they lived in.

Suddenly the melancholic lyrics made sense to me. And what I perceived as “lack of direction” in Johnny Marr’s music also started to make sense – it’s only realistic that songs about characters who feel out of place in society should have an unconventional and slightly detached structure.

Of course, nicolas, if you are allergic to jangle pop you might never be bowled over by The Queen Is Dead. But next time you put it on, follow the same advice as you gave me about Dark Side of the Moon: listen to it as if you are spending time with a friend – in this case, a slightly fragile and sensitive friend who is disenchanted with social norms and who is kinda miserable but thankfully also sincere and not without humour. Spend enough time with him and you might be surprised by his emotional depth. But there lies the problem, doesn’t it? With so many albums at our fingertips we don’t spend “unnecessary” time with music which doesn't sound like it's our cup of tea.

Just to reiterate Henry’s point about Morrissey’s vocals, maybe give I Know It’s Over another go. The song is about a guy trying to come to grips with the fact that the woman he loves is marrying another man. The vocal delivery by Morrissey really makes you feel his pain (especially in the last minute of the song).

Sorry for the essay!

PS: Thanks for posting that Modern Talking clip. If you like synth music (and I do) it’s as beautifully straightforward as they come. So (even though you wanted a )

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Dan M
one person (?)

[21] The Smiths | The Queen Is Dead

So as Henry says "Please provide an explanation..."


The Queen Is Dead is my #96 album at the moment but I never used to get The Smiths either. There was something about the structure of their songs I just didn’t used to like (a lack of hooks and bridges are of course not necessarily a bad thing, but to me it felt like the melodies were going... nowhere. And did the lyrics and style of singing have to be so morbid?)

But sometimes it helps if you know more about the songwriters’ frame of mind at the time of recording, so I did some research on the Smiths and particularly on Morrissey. At the time (and probably still today) Morrissey was clearly very dissatisfied with politics and social norms. He saw them as having a destructive effect on individuals. So it’s no surprise that the characters in his lyrics were often lonely individuals who longed to be loved but ultimately felt confined by the world they lived in.

Suddenly the melancholic lyrics made sense to me. And what I perceived as “lack of direction” in Johnny Marr’s music also started to make sense – it’s only realistic that songs about characters who feel out of place in society should have an unconventional and slightly detached structure.

Of course, nicolas, if you are allergic to jangle pop you might never be bowled over by The Queen Is Dead. But next time you put it on, follow the same advice as you gave me about Dark Side of the Moon: listen to it as if you are spending time with a friend – in this case, a slightly fragile and sensitive friend who is disenchanted with social norms and who is kinda miserable but thankfully also sincere and not without humour. Spend enough time with him and you might be surprised by his emotional depth. But there lies the problem, doesn’t it? With so many albums at our fingertips we don’t spend “unnecessary” time with music which doesn't sound like it's our cup of tea.

Just to reiterate Henry’s point about Morrissey’s vocals, maybe give I Know It’s Over another go. The song is about a guy trying to come to grips with the fact that the woman he loves is marrying another man. The vocal delivery by Morrissey really makes you feel his pain (especially in the last minute of the song).

Sorry for the essay!

PS: Thanks for posting that Modern Talking clip. If you like synth music (and I do) it’s as beautifully straightforward as they come. So (even though you wanted a )


Great post, and high five for the synth love!

For me, Morrissey has some of the most beautiful, creative and addictive melodies going. His music solo and with The Smiths is some of my very favorite to sing with unwavering histrionics.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

BillAdama
Odyssey and Oracle is becoming a lost discovery in a lot of indie circles. The people on the old Metacritic forum loved it too. But, I'm surprised it got all the way to #23. I mean, I like it, but it's far from my top.

I think Funeral is going to hit top 10. It's awesome to see 3 Dylans in the top 20. I only expected two, and my third guess wouldn't have been that one.

My top ten prediction: Beatles x 5, Dylan x 2, Pet Sounds, Funeral, OK Computer


Excellent predictions! My change would be to move out one of the Beatles and move in the "beloved" VU (after all it was polled as the best album of the 1960's just a few months ago. I would also guess that the next five (16-20) will include: Doolittle, Blood on the Tracks (my favorite Dylan album), and Automatic for the People.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Henrik
I don't get this discussion. It's a half-guitar band...


Great joke ! But once again, I don't think it was an intentional joke... love your humor Henrik

THAT is not a guitar . I meant synth-oriented pop from the 80's. It's not only synths, but those effects everywhere : on the vocals, the guitars, the drums.
The Smiths music is so full of these effects that I can't play the first song entirely. I have a problem with music relying too much on electronic devices.

But I'll follow your advice Dan. I'll try to spend time with this guy in spite of his terrible clothes and hairstyle . I sense a lot of personality in Morrissey, something very british too, something endearing, but it's Marrs and these terrible guitars I can't get. Well, I'm not gonna ask Moonbeam to like bluegrass (and I think bluegrass is one of the most beautiful and pure musical styles ever). I love "There is A light". I like his depiction of teenage, and I was 16 when this record was released (the girls had huge earrings and strange hairdos and the guys wore their jeans very short with the bottom rolled up to their ankles). So it's more a question of style and aesthetics than a question of mere songwriting (although I agree about the loose song structures). Proof being that I totally prefer Morrissey's solo outings of the 00's.

And Moonbeam, we are really 2 faces of the same coin. The synth era artists you said you don't like (Huey Lewis, J. Geils Band) are both rootsy and rnr artists that turned to synths to make money. BTW I dodn't know JGeils Band had made synth music in the 80s. Are you sure ? Such a wonderful blues/rock band ? (I'm teasing you, but I love this band).

And guys, about Modern Talking, you're killing me !!

Now it's time to wash my ears with this

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

nicolas
Henrik
I don't get this discussion. It's a half-guitar band...


Great joke ! But once again, I don't think it was an intentional joke...

THAT is not a guitar . I meant synth-oriented pop from the 80's. It's not only synths, but those effects everywhere : on the vocals, the guitars, the drums.
The Smiths music is so full of these effects that I can't play the first song entirely. I have a problem with music relying too much on electronic devices.

BUt I'll follow your advice Dan. I'll try to spend tiMe with this guy in spite of his terrible clothes and hairstyle . I sense a lot of personality in Morrissey, something very british too, something endearing, but it's Marrs and these terrible guitars I can't get. Well, I'm not gonna ask Moonbeam to like bluegrass (and I think bluegrass is one of the most beautiful and pure musical styles ever). I love "There is A light". I like his depiction of teenage, and I was 16 when this record was released (the girls had huge earrings and strange hairdos and the guys wore their jeans very short with the bottom rolled up to their ankles). So it's more a question of style and aesthetics than a question of mere songwriting (although I agree about the loose song structures). Proof being that I totally prefer Morrissey's solo outings of the 00's.

And Moonbeam, we are really 2 faces of the same coin. The synth era artists you said you don't like (Huey Lewis, J. Geils Band) are both rootsy and rnr artists that turned to synths to make money. BTW I dodn't know JGeils Band had made synth music in the 80s. Are you sure ? Such a wonderful blues/rock band ? (I'm teasing you, but I love this band).

And guys, about Modern Talking, you're killing me !!


This is a very interesting discussion indeed! I also hated most of the fashion and style of the 90s. All of those grungey clothes and smug album covers or the obnoxious pop-punk whining like Green Day was just nauseating for me.

While it seemed most people were content wallowing in their flannels and extolling the god-like virtues of Pearl Jam, Green Day and Oasis (good God), I felt quite alone wearing Cross Colors and Hypercolor shirts and dancing along to Deee-Lite.

As for J. Geils Band, look no further than "Centerfold" and "Freeze Frame". It just didn't feel natural to them, like the synths in "Jump" felt like a crass tack-on for Van Halen.

And since you brought up Modern Talking, I will now hijack the thread for the moment to post some classics from a genre that is sadly completely absent from the AM ranks: italo disco!

Bagarre - "For Your Pleasure"
Tantra - "The Hills of Katmandu"
Kano - "It's a War"
Dharma - "Plastic Doll"
'Lectric Workers - "Robot Is Systematic"
Easy Going - "Fear"
Gazebo - "I Like Chopin"
Mr. Flagio - "Take a Chance"
Charlie - "Spacer Woman"
Zed - "Plastic Love"

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Moonbeam don' miss my last post edit. there's a treat for you
And I'm no huge grunge fan. Still too much reverb on Pearl Jam's drums . An Oasis IMO is :

As small as a hen egg
An envious little frog
Seeing a bulky ox
Starts swelling and swelling
Trying to be as big as he is.
-“Look at me now - exclaims she puffed up:-
“Am I now as big as you are?”-”Not enough,
my old friend.”- And she keeps on swelling
And stretching and straining, enlarging
till she bursts as a bladder.
Folks all show and no substance,
Ambitious and brainless men,
Or people despising their own right place,
How many people as this frog are!

Jean de La Fontaine (1621-1695) (inspired by Aesop's fable

And speaking of Italo dance, you forgot this

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

nicolas
Moonbeam don' miss my last post edit. there's a treat for you
And I'm no huge grunge fan. Still too much reverb on Pearl Jam's drums . An Oasis IMO is :

As small as a hen egg
An envious little frog
Seeing a bulky ox
Starts swelling and swelling
Trying to be as big as he is.
-“Look at me now - exclaims she puffed up:-
“Am I now as big as you are?”-”Not enough,
my old friend.”- And she keeps on swelling
And stretching and straining, enlarging
till she bursts as a bladder.
Folks all show and no substance,
Ambitious and brainless men,
Or people despising their own right place,
How many people as this frog are!

Jean de La Fontaine (1621-1695) (inspired by Aesop's fable

And speaking of Italo dance, you forgot this


That is a brilliant fable to describe Oasis! Well done! And I managed to get through all of "Streamline Cannonball", and I can say that while it is definitely not my thing, I'll take it over stuff like Chumbawamba or this abomination any day! And I had never heard Topo & Roby before! I did enjoy it, although the italo cut I wish I could find a proper version of is Klein & MBO's "Dirty Talk". I have decided that if AMF ever has a huge meetup and I'm able to attend, I should come decked out in that purple and silver cape in the Topo & Roby video. Yes.




Yes.











....And I should probably stop now. Here we are on the verge of unveiling the top 20 albums of all time according to this forum, and here I am giddily talking about tracks that would likely never make the top 20,000 songs of this forum.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

that was a funny intermission but Jackson won't post the top 20 before sunday night. And that abomination was really one. Where did you get that ?

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

nicolas
that was a funny intermission but Jackson won't post the top 20 before sunday night. And that abomination was really one. Where did you get that ?


I heard it here about 3 years ago and it scarred itself into my memory. It's in my bottom 10 songs of all time, easily.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

So many links to Italo Disco and yet none of these songs have been mentioned. I own this double LP and it's one of my favorites in my collection.

I think Jackson wants to start a new thread when he comes back for the top 20...

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

Back to the albums list...Nicolas, it has been a pleasure to read your opinions on each and every album. It feels as if you have got to know yourself a little more through the process, am I right?

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

45-41

"In Rainbows" is quite the shock. Probably the most unimaginative and cacophonous work of Radiohead with sort of an identity problem since it never feels like it has a certain style or that is spinning around many genres. Only two tracks I keep: "All I Need" and "Reckoner".

At least there is no hyperbole (or is there any?) at the placement of "Dark Side Of The Moon" while in other polls anywhere around the globe they are gonna choke you for not including it among the all-time Top 10. Atmospheric, with moments of ecstatic brilliance ("Eclipse", "Us And Them") but its sound effects seem dated to me and the lyrics, despite all the effort in the world of some critics to convince you for the opposite, are too simplistic. That said, I enjoy it quite a lot and it would probably made my Top 200, right around the 170-180 zone.

One of the few albums in exactly one rank that it deserves, "The Stone Roses" is one of those that can only be re-discovered from younger generations and furthermore gain some new chunks of love. Fresh, cheerful, with lots and lots of epic bass lines ("I Am The Ressurection", "Waterfall") and a truly original rebellious attitude in the lyrics of almost every single track (especially "Bye Bye Badman") it's very understandable why it rose a reprise of the '60s era and spirit at the time it was released, but it never feels like it borrows too much from them or being a nostalgia copy-paste. And that mix of funk and acoustic guitar sound can hardly be listed under a certain genre.

I tried to love "The Kinks Are The Vilage Green Preservation Society", even like it. So far I've listened to it almost two times. I don't know what exactly I don't get. It sounds corny and too optimistic for its own good for me. I think it belongs to the time of its release.

"Hunky Dory" is also pure brilliance. One of the best soft-pop rock albums of all time, a "prophecy" for a sound that would silently conquer the '70s (see "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road") and would be acceptable as a total mainstream-merchandise firecracker some time later, unfortunately not with artists and works of the same high quality (Meat Loaf, Queen etc.). Anyway, even if not as vastly epic as "The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars" it sounds and is perfect from the first to the last second and the classic ones from this ("Changes", "Life On Mars") haven't aged a bit.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

thanks Henrik ! For once I have the time to do this. I'm having a lot of fun. Music is so important to me that it be came a reflection of my life, and that's why i have this very intimate relationship with these albums. That was the subject of my first and only novel. So yes talking about music I can't help talking about myself and following Socrates' principle (Know thyself). I wouldn't do that if I didn't feel that talking about the personal is sometimes the best way to reach the universal. So sorry Mr Jackson (comedy of repetition)for those endless digressings. It proves that those polls are the most fruitful events of our little community.

And Particle, great comment on "Hunky Dory". You nailed it. Bowie was a magician (at least during the 70's).

and Henrik, wow for your double LP. Miko Mission and Den Harrow !!!! Names that surged from nowhere (memory back alleys). We have to open a 80's pop thread. "Why Did You Do It" is great. Pure funk.

Re: 2011 AMF All-Time Albums Poll Results Thread: Top 100

I dont give a shit about influence

All I care is if it sooooouuuuuuunds goooooooooooooood