Put a Pin on the Map View my Forum Guestmap
Free Guestmaps by Bravenet.com

The Old Acclaimed Music Forum

Go to the NEW FORUM

Music, music, music...
Start a New Topic 
1 2
Author
Comment
Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

BillAdama
I wouldn't be shocked if the Beatles pulled of 1-2-3-4.

Pet Sounds out of the top 4? It almost beat OK Computer for #1 in the AMF top albums poll...

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

You're probably right about that, but I do think the Beatles albums will be concentrated near the very top, and a Beatles album will be #1.

Both Pet Sounds and the top Beatles albums have a lot of people who think they're the greatest of all time and very few detractors, but I think the people who don't think Pet Sounds is the greatest of all time go a little farther down than the people who don't think Beatles are greatest of all time.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

I can see Pet Sounds finishing #1. There is a divide on what the best Beatles album actually is so Pet Sounds could definitely pull off the upset.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

John
so Pet Sounds could definitely pull off the upset.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

BillAdama

Both Pet Sounds and the top Beatles albums have a lot of people who think they're the greatest of all time and very few detractors, but I think the people who don't think Pet Sounds is the greatest of all time go a little farther down than the people who don't think Beatles are greatest of all time.


It's exactly what I think. I never understand why Pet Sounds is so loved. I do not put this album even in my top 300. Two good songs and the rest is boring for me.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

No, sorry, there is not a tie on #17, The Kinks are on #16
About the (deserved in my opinion) preponderance of the Beatles is something that should'nt come as a surprise. We all knew that it was going to happen. However I expected Sgt. Pepper's ending out of the Top 10 given the relatively low placement on the 1967 poll (it ended at #5).
Romain, you're not the only one not getting the acclaim about "Pet Sounds". Two years ago someone asked for that in this thread. I posted there a ranking of 10 goose-bump moments in that great album, hope this could help you to appreciate it a little more.

On a side note: I've always liked a lot "Rubber Soul". In fact I played in a band that was initially called Rubber Souls (later we changed our name to Rubber). The cover art of our first EP released in 1990 reproduced the original Beatles cover (I'm the one in Harrison's position).



By the way, have you noticed that the Beatles (intentionally or not) reproduced with their positions the Mount Rushmore Memorial?

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

The Top 10

Yes, they made it! The Zombies entered the Top 10 with their "Odessey and Oracle", an album overlooked at the time that has grown in stature enough to being able to compete now with Dylan or the Beatles.


10. The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Are You Experienced



Points: 1119
Biggest fans: Listyguy (#1), Gillingham and Rocky Raccoon (#3), Henry and Mindrocker (#4)
Position in AM 3000: #7 of the 1960s and #12 of all time
Position in 1967 poll: #3
Released on May 12, 1967 (Track 612 001), released in the US (Reprise RS 6261) on August 23, 1967 with a different cover art and different track listing (including single tracks as "Purple Haze", "Hey Joe" and "The Wind Cries Mary" instead "Red House", "Can You See Me" and "Remember").
Recorded on October 23, 1966 - January 11, 1967 at De Lane Lea Studios, London, England, on November 12, 1966 at CBS Studios, London, England and on February 2 - April 3, 1967 at Olympic Studios, London, England
Producer: Chas Chandler
Style: Acid Rock

Comments:
Richie Unterberger for allmusic: "One of the most stunning debuts in rock history, and one of the definitive albums of the psychedelic era. On "Are You Experienced?", Jimi Hendrix synthesized various elements of the cutting edge of 1967 rock into music that sounded both futuristic and rooted in the best traditions of rock, blues, pop, and soul. It was his mind-boggling guitar work, of course, that got most of the ink, building upon the experiments of British innovators like Jeff Beck and Pete Townshend to chart new sonic territories in feedback, distortion, and sheer volume. It wouldn't have meant much, however, without his excellent material, whether psychedelic frenzy ("Foxey Lady", "Manic Depression", "Purple Haze"), instrumental freak-out jams ("Third Stone From the Sun"), blues ("Red House", "Hey Joe"), or tender, poetic compositions ("The Wind Cries Mary") that demonstrated the breadth of his songwriting talents. Not to be underestimated were the contributions of drummer Mitch Mitchell and bassist Noel Redding, who gave the music a rhythmic pulse that fused parts of rock and improvised jazz. Many of these songs are among Hendrix's very finest; it may be true that he would continue to develop at a rapid pace throughout the rest of his brief career, but he would never surpass his first LP in terms of consistently high quality."
Rocky Raccoon: "Song for song perhaps the best album ever recorded. It sounds like a greatest hits package with one amazing song after another, but it's not, it's just a regular studio album. What makes that even more astounding is that it's a debut. From this through to Electric Ladyland is one of the greatest creative periods a musician has ever gone through."
Listyguy: "This album is an Experience."


9. The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band



Points: 1122
Biggest fans: Rocky Raccoon (#1), Henry (#3), Chris, John and Miguel (#7)
Position in AM 3000: #4 of the 1960s and #5 of all time
Position in 1967 poll: #5
Released on June 1, 1967 (Parlophone PCS 7027)
Recorded on December 6, 1966 - April 21, 1967 at EMI Studios, London, England
Producer: George Martin
Style: Psychedelic Pop

Comments:
Stephen Thomas Erlewine for allmusic: "With "Revolver", the Beatles made the Great Leap Forward, reaching a previously unheard-of level of sophistication and fearless experimentation. "Sgt. Pepper's", in many ways, refines that breakthrough, as the Beatles consciously synthesized such disparate influences as psychedelia, art song, classical music, rock & roll, and music hall, often in the course of one song. (...) There's no discounting the individual contributions of each member or their producer, George Martin, but the preponderance of whimsy and self-conscious art gives the impression that Paul McCartney is the leader of the Lonely Hearts Club Band. He dominates the album in terms of compositions, setting the tone for the album with his unabashed melodicism and deviously clever arrangements. In comparison, Lennon's contributions seem fewer, and a couple of them are a little slight but his major statements are stunning. (...) "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" remains one of the touchstones of British psychedelia; and he's the mastermind behind the bulk of "A Day in the Life," a haunting number that skillfully blends Lennon's verse and chorus with McCartney's bridge. It's possible to argue that there are better Beatles albums, yet no album is as historically important as this. After "Sgt. Pepper's", there were no rules to follow - rock and pop bands could try anything, for better or worse. Ironically, few tried to achieve the sweeping, all-encompassing embrace of music as the Beatles did here."
Listyguy: "Another masterpiece from the band."
Rocky Raccoon: "Some choices are as plain as the noise on Ringo's face. So much has been written about this album that anything more would just be redundent. Let's just sum everything up and say it changed the face of music. Also, the songs are pretty damn good. As an added bonus, it made Brian Wilson go nuts trying to match it. He couldn't."


8. The Zombies - Odessey and Oracle



Points: 1138
Biggest fans: Romain (#3), Charlie Driggs and Jackson (#4), nj (#5), John (#6)
Position in AM 3000: #66 of the 1960s and #316 of all time
Position in 1968 poll: #2
Released on April 19, 1968 (Parlophone PCS 7027)
Recorded on June - July 1967 at EMI Studios, London, England, on August 1967 at Olympic Studios, London, England and on September - November 1967 at EMI Studios, London, England
Producer: The Zombies
Style: Baroque Pop

Comments:
Bruce Eder for allmusic: " "Odessey and Oracle" was one of the flukiest (and best) albums of the 1960s, and one of the most enduring long-players to come out of the entire British psychedelic boom, mixing trippy melodies, ornate choruses, and lush Mellotron sounds with a solid hard rock base. But it was overlooked completely in England and barely got out in America (with a big push by Al Kooper, who was then a Columbia Records producer); and it was neglected in the U.S. until the single "Time of the Season", culled from the album, topped the charts nearly two years after it was recorded, by which time the group was long disbanded. Ironically, at the time of its recording in the summer of 1967, permanency was not much on the minds of the bandmembers. "Odessey and Oracle" was intended as a final statement, a bold last hurrah, having worked hard for three years only to see the quality of their gigs decline as the hits stopped coming. The results are consistently pleasing, surprising, and challenging."
nicolas: "A perfect mix of the Beatles and beach Boys, with fantastic songs. If their record company had spent more money on production it could have equalled "Pet Sounds"or "Revolver"."
nj: "O_O even h4z tta facebook theme song... with 10tz of powerwords for shitstorming the faggy 60s... alb31337!!"

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

I'm going to have to check out that Zombies album.

Had I participated, I may have bumped down The Beatles a bit. I've only heard Sgt. Pepper in full, but it surely would have ranked last in the list of albums I've heard that are eligible. That said, I'm not nearly versed enough in 60s music to have felt that I could participate fairly.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

DAMN IT!!!!!!!!
Jimi gets screwed over again!!
ARGHHHHH!!!!
I wonder what the odds of All Along the Watchtower (My #1 of the decade) finishing higher than 10 are.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Moonbeam, you should definitely check the Zombies album. And yes, I missed you here but there's something I expected, you always talk about your limited knowledge of the 60s music (even if your choices on the yearly poll were always fantastic!).
And Listyguy, I'm not sure if the definition of "getting screwed over" includes "getting into the Top 10".

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

The best thing in this last section? That Rubber Souls sleeve of course!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Of course, Mindrocker.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Honorio%%bbCodeItem_1%%: "Some choices are as plain as the noise on Ringo's face. So much has been written about this album that anything more would just be redundent. Let's just sum everything up and say it changed the face of music. Also, the songs are pretty damn good. As an added bonus, it made Brian Wilson go nuts trying to match it. He couldn't."
[/quote


I meant to say "nose" on Ringo's face. But it's plain the noise is great, too.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Yes, Rocky Raccoon, I was tempted to correct it myself and put "nose" instead. But, since I was not completely sure if it was some kind of wordplay, I decided to leave it as you wrote it.
In fact "the noise on Ringo's face" is a very funny expression.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 7-6

7. Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde



Points: 1176
Biggest fans: Honorio, Rocky Raccoon and Stephan (#2), Chris (#4), Brad (#6)
Position in AM 3000: #5 of the 1960s and #7 of all time
Position in 1966 poll: #3
Released on May 16, 1966 (Columbia C2L 41)
Recorded on November 25, 1965 at Studio A, Columbia Recording Studios, New York City and on February 14 - March 10, 1966 at Columbia Recording Studios, Nashville, Tennessee
Producer: Bob Johnston
Style: Folk Rock

Comments:
Stephen Thomas Erlewine for allmusic: "If "Highway 61 Revisited" played as a garage rock record, the double album "Blonde on Blonde" inverted that sound, blending blues, country, rock, and folk into a wild, careening, and dense sound. Replacing the fiery Michael Bloomfield with the intense, weaving guitar of Robbie Robertson, Bob Dylan led a group comprised of his touring band the Hawks and session musicians through his richest set of songs. "Blonde on Blonde" is an album of enormous depth, providing endless lyrical and musical revelations on each play. Leavening the edginess of "Highway 61" with a sense of the absurd, "Blonde on Blonde" is comprised entirely of songs driven by inventive, surreal, and witty wordplay, not only on the rockers but also on winding, moving ballads like "Visions of Johanna," "Just Like a Woman," and "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands." Throughout the record, the music matches the inventiveness of the songs, filled with cutting guitar riffs, liquid organ riffs, crisp pianos, and even woozy brass bands ("Rainy Day Women #12 & 35"). It's the culmination of Dylan's electric rock & roll period - he would never release a studio record that rocked this hard, or had such bizarre imagery, ever again."
nicolas: "Another one better than the sum of its parts. By far my favorite '60s album by Dylan. Like AMG says "an album of enormous depth"."
Rocky Raccoon: "It's always a tossup between this and "Highway 61 Revisited" for me, but this one has the better ballads."
Honorio: "Dylan not abandoned the automatic poetry of his previous two albums but he pointed toward more personal matters. The lyrics were cryptic and the music was messy but this was not only part of the charm but maybe its main appeal. He tried to find a unique sound equidistant from pop-rock and roots-music and he succeeded. In Dylan’s own words: "The closest I ever got to the sound I hear in my mind was on individual bands in the "Blonde on Blonde" album. It's that thin, that wild mercury sound. It's metallic and bright gold, with whatever that conjures up. That's my particular sound"."


6. The Beatles - Abbey Road



Points: 1241
Biggest fans: Henry and nicolas (#1), Listyguy (#2), Georgie (#3), Henrik (#6)
Position in AM 3000: #10 of the 1960s and #20 of all time
Position in 1969 poll: #1
Released on September 26, 1969 (Apple PCS 7088 )
Recorded on February 22, 1969 at Trident Studios, London, England, on May 6, 1969 at Olympic Sound Studios, London, England and on April 16 - August 20, 1969 at EMI Studios, London, England (formally renamed Abbey Road Studios in 1970 probably due in part to the success of this album)
Producer: George Martin, Chris Thomas and Glyn Johns
Style: Album Rock

Comments:
Richie Unterberger for allmusic: "The last Beatles album to be recorded (although "Let It Be" was the last to be released), "Abbey Road" was a fitting swan song for the group, echoing some of the faux-conceptual forms of "Sgt. Pepper's", but featuring stronger compositions and more rock-oriented ensemble work. The group was still pushing forward in all facets of its art, whether devising some of the greatest harmonies to be heard on any rock record (especially on "Because"), constructing a medley of songs/vignettes that covered much of side two, adding subtle touches of Moog synthesizer, or crafting furious guitar-heavy rock ("The End", "I Want You (She's So Heavy)", "Come Together"). George Harrison also blossomed into a major songwriter, contributing the buoyant "Here Comes the Sun" and the supremely melodic ballad "Something", the latter of which became the first Harrison-penned Beatles hit. Whether "Abbey Road" is the Beatles' best work is debatable, but it's certainly the most immaculately produced (with the possible exception of "Sgt. Pepper's") and most tightly constructed."
Honorio: "In the Beatles career we can also define periods: early (the first two albums), classic (from "A Hard Day's Night" to "Rubber Soul"), golden age ("Revolver" and "Sgt. Pepper's"), avant-garde ("MMT"and "White Album") and decadence ("Abbey Road" and back-to-basics "Let It Be"). But with one major problem, there is nothing more antagonistic to the concept of decadence than this brilliant album."
Listyguy: "Such a great album, tragically their last."
nicolas: "What I love the most with the Beatles is their ability to radically change their sound with each album, and to stay themselves all the while. The most cohesive effort to me, with the best album final I've never heard. They went out in style."

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Are You Experienced would have been my #1.

Looks like only two Beatles albums are left with a shot at the overall #1.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

The whole "Jimi was robbed thing" was because he only lost to Sgt Pepper by 3 points.
My top 5 call:
1. Revolver
2. Pet Sounds
3. Vu/Nico
4. Highway 61
5. White Album

I can't see the White album contending with the other 4.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

It would be great if Dylan or The VU could run away with the first spot, but that's not going to happen, alas.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Gillingham
It would be great if Dylan or The VU could run away with the first spot, but that's not going to happen, alas.


Although, I've listened to it a dozen times, I never thought much of the VU album.

Do you guys actually listen to the album 5-10 times each year?

Just askin'.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Henry
Gillingham
It would be great if Dylan or The VU could run away with the first spot, but that's not going to happen, alas.


Although, I've listened to it a dozen times, I never thought much of the VU album.

Do you guys actually listen to the album 5-10 times each year?

Just askin'.


It surely would have been my number 1 had I participated. I don't like a whole bunch of 60s albums, but The Velvet Underground & Nico (as well as White Light/White Heat) is an album I truly cherish.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Moonbeam
Henry
Gillingham
It would be great if Dylan or The VU could run away with the first spot, but that's not going to happen, alas.


Although, I've listened to it a dozen times, I never thought much of the VU album.

Do you guys actually listen to the album 5-10 times each year?

Just askin'.


It surely would have been my number 1 had I participated. I don't like a whole bunch of 60s albums, but The Velvet Underground & Nico (as well as White Light/White Heat) is an album I truly cherish.


Based on my repeated frustration in attempting to find anything spectacular in the VU songs, I still wonder whether you and other VU fans listen to these VU albums regularly, or if the VU albums/songs are beloved for reasons other than listening enjoyment.

I imagine that my appreciation of the VU is about as strong as yours is for the Beatles.

Fortunately for me, VU is not widely played on the radio. I wonder why you rarely hear VU on the radio. Perhaps because VU eschews pop motifs and is therefore less accessible to the average listener.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Henry
Moonbeam
Henry
Gillingham
It would be great if Dylan or The VU could run away with the first spot, but that's not going to happen, alas.


Although, I've listened to it a dozen times, I never thought much of the VU album.

Do you guys actually listen to the album 5-10 times each year?

Just askin'.


It surely would have been my number 1 had I participated. I don't like a whole bunch of 60s albums, but The Velvet Underground & Nico (as well as White Light/White Heat) is an album I truly cherish.


Based on my repeated frustration in attempting to find anything spectacular in the VU songs, I still wonder whether you and other VU fans listen to these VU albums regularly, or if the VU albums/songs are beloved for reasons other than listening enjoyment.

I imagine that my appreciation of the VU is about as strong as yours is for the Beatles.

Fortunately for me, VU is not widely played on the radio. I wonder why you rarely hear VU on the radio. Perhaps because VU eschews pop motifs and is therefore less accessible to the average listener.


I guess it depends on what you mean by "regularly". I tend to listen to new stuff about 60% of the time and older stuff 40% of the time. I've got over 700 albums, but I still bust out VU at least once a year. That may not seem like a lot, but there are Prince albums that I love that I only listen to that often.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

On positions 7 and 6 we had Dylan and the Beatles. It’s easy now to guess the artists we have on positions 5 and 4. The unexpected thing comes with the Beatles album we selected for #4. Ladies and gentlemen...


5. Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited



Points: 1315
Biggest fans: Stephan (#1), Gillingham (#2), sonofsamiam (#3), Rocky Raccoon (#5), Harold Wexler and nicolas (#6)
Position in AM 3000: #6 of the 1960s and #11 of all time
Position in 1965 poll: #1
Released on August 30, 1965 (Columbia CL 2389)
Recorded on June 15 - August 4, 1965 at Studio A, Columbia Recording Studios, New York City
Producer: Tom Wilson, Bob Johnston
Style: Folk Rock

Comments:
Stephen Thomas Erlewine for allmusic: "Taking the first, electric side of "Bringing It All Back Home" to its logical conclusion, Bob Dylan hired a full rock & roll band, featuring guitarist Michael Bloomfield, for "Highway 61 Revisited". Opening with the epic "Like a Rolling Stone", "Highway 61 Revisited" careens through nine songs that range from reflective folk-rock ("Desolation Row") and blues ("It Takes a Lot to Laugh, It Takes a Train to Cry") to flat-out garage rock ("Tombstone Blues", "From a Buick 6", "Highway 61 Revisited"). Dylan had not only changed his sound, but his persona, trading the folk troubadour for a streetwise, cynical hipster. Throughout the album, he embraces druggy, surreal imagery, which can either have a sense of menace or beauty, and the music reflects that, jumping between soothing melodies to hard, bluesy rock. And that is the most revolutionary thing about "Highway 61 Revisited" - it proved that rock & roll needn't be collegiate and tame in order to be literate, poetic, and complex."
nicolas: "Bruce Springsteen said that the second musical revelation he had (after seeing Elvis on Tv) was Highway 61. And he's damn right. I remember that I didn't like this once at once. The sound is very rough, sometimes the musicians are almost out of tune, but there's an energy that you never hear on any other Dylan album."


4. The Beatles - Revolver



Points: 1315
Biggest fans: Harold Wexler and Romain (#1), Chris (#2), Honorio and John (#4)
Position in AM 3000: #2 of the 1960s and #2 of all time
Position in 1966 poll: #2
Released on August 5, 1966 (Parlophone PCS 7009), the US release (Capitol ST-2576) was the last Beatles release with different track listing (it only featured 11 tracks because the songs "I'm Only Sleeping", "Dr. Robert" and "And Your Bird Can Sing" were previously released on the album "Yesterday and Today")
Recorded on April 6 - June 21, 1966 at EMI Studios, London, England
Producer: George Martin
Style: Psychedelic Rock

Comments:
Stephen Thomas Erlewine for allmusic: "All the rules fell by the wayside with "Revolver", as the Beatles began exploring new sonic territory, lyrical subjects, and styles of composition. It wasn't just Lennon and McCartney, either - Harrison staked out his own dark territory with the tightly wound, cynical rocker "Taxman"; the jaunty yet dissonant "I Want to Tell You"; and "Love You To", George's first and best foray into Indian music. Such explorations were bold, yet they were eclipsed by Lennon's trippy kaleidoscopes of sound. (...) and then capped it off with a triptych of bad trips: the spiraling "She Said She Said"; the crawling, druggy "I'm Only Sleeping"; and "Tomorrow Never Knows", a pure nightmare where John sang portions of the Tibetan Book of the Dead into a suspended microphone over Ringo's thundering, menacing drumbeats and layers of overdubbed, phased guitars and tape loops. McCartney's experiments were formal, as he tried on every pop style from chamber pop to soul, and when placed alongside Lennon's and Harrison's outright experimentations, McCartney's songcraft becomes all the more impressive. The biggest miracle of "Revolver" may be that the Beatles covered so much new stylistic ground and executed it perfectly on one record, or it may be that all of it holds together perfectly. Either way, its daring sonic adventures and consistently stunning songcraft set the standard for what pop/rock could achieve."
Listyguy: "I have this album in puzzle form."
nicolas: "So much has been said about this album. My favorite songs ? Eleanor Rigby, For No One and the very innovative Tomorrow never Knows. Among the Fab Four albums, it is the one that fits the best to these times because of the guitar sounds."
Rocky Raccoon: "I don't think I'll ever hold this one in as high esteem as many people do. It still sounds like a transition record to me, bridging the gap between the pinnacle of their early work on "Rubber Soul" and where they were going with "Sgt. Pepper's." That being said, it's still No. 12."
Honorio: "The Fab Four expanded with "Revolver" their musical palette and doing this they expanded their (our) minds. And their adventurous but successful forays into classical music ("Eleanor Rigby"), Hindu music ("Love You To") or avant-garde ("Tomorrow Never Knows") were incorporated to their own style (the horn solo in "For No One" is now a Beatles-style solo)."

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Oh man - what a tragedy,don't get me wrong The White Album is pretty good,but top 3 of the 60s - really?

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Henry
Gillingham
It would be great if Dylan or The VU could run away with the first spot, but that's not going to happen, alas.


Although, I've listened to it a dozen times, I never thought much of the VU album.

Do you guys actually listen to the album 5-10 times each year?

Just askin'.
Yes I do. Maybe ten times is a bit too many, for the same reasons as Moonbeam has, but five times a year should be easy at the moment. And yes, I also enjoy it a lot. Same goes for their self-titled third album.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Midaso
Oh man - what a tragedy,don't get me wrong The White Album is pretty good,but top 3 of the 60s - really?


I agree. At least with the 'tragedy' part, not with the 'pretty good' part. An album including both Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da (my god) and Revolution 9 (not to mention some other mediocre songs) won't do it for me.

On the other hand, it's a nice surpirse that Revolver is not in the highest position (although I like it much more than The Beatles).

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Henry
Although, I've listened to it a dozen times, I never thought much of the VU album.

Do you guys actually listen to the album 5-10 times each year?

Just askin'.

Didn't this question come up last time the album posted high in a poll? I listen to VU&N more times in a year (and in most months) than I've listened to Pet Sounds in my life. So YES, YES, YES!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Henry

Based on my repeated frustration in attempting to find anything spectacular in the VU songs, I still wonder whether you and other VU fans listen to these VU albums regularly, or if the VU albums/songs are beloved for reasons other than listening enjoyment.



This is how I feel about The White Album. Does everyone actually listen to it all the way through and enjoy it the whole time? I don't see how an album so long and with so much obvious filler has become a consensus favorite. People seem to argue that having a lot of songs--some good, some bad--make it better, an argument that doesn't make much sense to me.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Jackson
Henry

Based on my repeated frustration in attempting to find anything spectacular in the VU songs, I still wonder whether you and other VU fans listen to these VU albums regularly, or if the VU albums/songs are beloved for reasons other than listening enjoyment.



This is how I feel about The White Album. Does everyone actually listen to it all the way through and enjoy it the whole time? I don't see how an album so long and with so much obvious filler has become a consensus favorite. People seem to argue that having a lot of songs--some good, some bad--make it better, an argument that doesn't make much sense to me.


I never understood why The White Album gets rated higher than Abbey Road. Revolution number 9 gets skipped every time I play The White Album and it's long period of filler all by itself as far as I'm concerned.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Gillingham
Henry
Gillingham
It would be great if Dylan or The VU could run away with the first spot, but that's not going to happen, alas.


Although, I've listened to it a dozen times, I never thought much of the VU album.

Do you guys actually listen to the album 5-10 times each year?

Just askin'.
Yes I do. Maybe ten times is a bit too many, for the same reasons as Moonbeam has, but five times a year should be easy at the moment. And yes, I also enjoy it a lot. Same goes for their self-titled third album.


Then perhaps you can explain what you find so enjoyable about the VU songs when you listen to them. Do they put you into a particularly edifying mood, or is their some fantastic musicianship that I have missed so far?

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

There most definitely is. Cale, Reed and Tucker are all fantastically gifted musicians and Reed's narratives are amazing. The frantic energy and force of songs like "Heroin", "I'm Waiting for The Man", "Sister Ray", "Rock and Roll" and many more are unparalleled and I'd listen to pretty much any of their albums over any (to me, slightly boring) Beatles record.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Henry
Then perhaps you can explain what you find so enjoyable about the VU songs when you listen to them. Do they put you into a particularly edifying mood, or is their some fantastic musicianship that I have missed so far?


Well, music is subjective, of course. The things that I or someone else enjoy most about an album like The VU & Nico may be the very things that drive others up the wall. I love the implacable droning force of most of the songs - I can totally understand how, for example, the repetitive minor-key guitar riffing, monolithic beat, and relentlessly sawing viola of "Venus in Furs" might send some listeners lunging for the "off" switch, but to me they're positively thrilling.

Whenever I listen to the album, I await with great anticipation the moment toward the end of "I'm Waiting for the Man" when Cale suddenly starts banging on the "wrong" piano key, over and over again until the fadeout. I consider it one of the greatest moments in rock history. Others may not. Doesn't bother me a bit.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Maybe it's just me, but i actually like Revolution 9. There's something about it which sounds so full of life and energy, much more than the Mccartney songs on the same album. I'm not that big a fan of the White Album, but the second side is largely brilliant.

And on VU, Stephan hit the nail on the head.

And last thing, Revolver at 4 is the real tragedy! Ought to be fighting it out with Dylan's 2 albums for top spot in my opinion along with something by the Stones!

Re: The 1960s album poll: position 3

So you all know now, there is no Beatles at #1. Number three, number three, number three ...


3. The Beatles - The Beatles



Points: 1367
Biggest fans: Honorio (#1), Brad and Miguel (#2), Charlie Driggs, Chris, Harold Wexler and nicolas (#3)
Position in AM 3000: #8 of the 1960s and #14 of all time
Position in 1968 poll: #1
Released on November 22, 1968 (Apple PCS 7067/8 )
Recorded on May 30 - October 14, 1968 at EMI Studios, London, England, with some sessions (August 28 - 29 and October 1 - 5, 1968) at Trident Studios, London, England
Producer: George Martin, Chris Thomas
Style: Art Rock

Comments:
Stephen Thomas Erlewine for allmusic: "Each song on the sprawling double album "The Beatles" is an entity to itself, as the band touches on anything and everything it can. This makes for a frustratingly scattershot record or a singularly gripping musical experience, depending on your view, but what makes the so-called "White Album" interesting is its mess. Never before had a rock record been so self-reflective, or so ironic; the Beach Boys send-up "Back in the U.S.S.R." and the British blooze parody "Yer Blues" are delivered straight-faced, so it's never clear if these are affectionate tributes or wicked satires. (...) None of it sounds like it was meant to share album space together, but somehow "The Beatles" creates its own style and sound through its mess."
Listyguy: "Countless great songs on this."
nicolas: "The Beatles' attic : there's everything, it's the absolute anti-Sgt Pepper's. If it had been reduced to the first record, it could have made nb.1."
Honorio: "The Beatles went so far with the "White Album" that in fact planted the seeds of the band disintegration. Many songs were recorded without involvement of the other band members ("Mother Nature Son", "Julia" or "Revolution 9"). But this individualism and dispersion miraculously not only was no dead weight but indeed it was a virtue. They applied the perfect and precise arrangement to every song without looking for cohesiveness. If a song needed clarinets ("Honey Pie"), overdrive ("Helter Skelter"), honky-tonk pianos ("Rocky Racoon") or a full orchestra ("Good Night") that was what the song got. All for the Song. And Song for all."

Re: The 1960s album poll: position 3

VU at number 1? Cringe

Re: The 1960s album poll: position 3

I knew the Beatles backlash on these forums would keep them out of #1. Combine that with multiple albums to choose from and it was kind of obvious to me that The Beach Boys or Dylan would be #1. Didn't see the VU getting in the top 2 though (maybe #1?). I have to say, this is the most shocking poll we've done here on AM.

Oh, and I forgot that we still have the songs left! Nice!

Re: The 1960s album poll: position 3

That's the best possible outcome I could have wished for with 4 Beatles records in the top 10—although I would've liked Dylan to contend for the top 3. While I reckon Pet Sounds will easily win, I hope VU can upset The Beach Boys. Good stuff.

Honorio: was there actually a tie for #4 or are the points wrong?

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Gillingham
Midaso
Oh man - what a tragedy,don't get me wrong The White Album is pretty good,but top 3 of the 60s - really?


I agree. At least with the 'tragedy' part, not with the 'pretty good' part. An album including both Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da (my god) and Revolution 9 (not to mention some other mediocre songs) won't do it for me.

On the other hand, it's a nice surpirse that Revolver is not in the highest position (although I like it much more than The Beatles).


Hopefully you guys don't actually think of this as a "tragedy." Tragedy applies to what's happening in Japan. This should at the very most be a mild disappointment. If not, you're taking this poll thing way too seriously.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Well, some comments before posting the two first positions:
- About the times per year I listen again to well-known albums (being the Velvets or even the Beatles) probably it’s not too much. The easy access to music now (Spotify and all that) makes that there so much music waiting to be listened that I don’t go back too often to those albums. Anyway talking about VU probably the album I’m more willing to listen again could be the self-titled third (I’m not the only one, it reached on this poll a meritory #22). But I understand your point, Henry, I like the VU second album but I must admit I don’t revisit it too often (especially the B-side).
- And yes, Jackson, I can perfectly enjoy the White Album all the way through. And I know, it’s not perfect, it’s inconsistent and it has a lot of ups and downs. Just like life.
- Stephan, #4 and #5 had the same points but I’m not sure if this means that there is a tie. I’m not sure about how the formula works. I simply posted the list in the order that the albums appear on the Excel file. If same points mean ties (as logically one can think) we have several other ties (you can see the points below every album cover on the post). The tie between "Revolver" and "Highway 61" could be broken in favor to The Beatles (two voters had "Revolver" as their #1 while Dylan's album received its only #1 from you, Stephan).
- Mmm, John, I’m not sure if this is the most shocking poll so far (in fact Listyguy joked about the Top 10 being quite similar to Rolling Stone). Think about that (except for The Zombies) the rest of the Top 10 it’s the same that the official AM list (but with the positions changed). But it’s been a wonderful trip to me (and I hope that it was for everyone).
- And yes, Rocky Raccoon, this is not tragedy, this is FUN.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Damn, that was a twist. White Album pulling off the upset. I think it's safe to say the Beach Boys have it in the bag, but after this, I'm not too sure.

Re: The 1960s album poll: position 2

Yes, as Midaso reminded, Pet Sounds almost won the all-time albums poll. But this time it should resign with a (more than meritory) second position.


2. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds



Points: 1394
Biggest fans: Georgie (#1), Henry and John (#2), Honorio and Mindrocker (#3)
Position in AM 3000: #1 of the 1960s and #1 of all time
Position in 1966 poll: #1
Released on May 16, 1966 (Capitol T 2458 )
Recorded on July 12, 1965 - March 10, 1966 at Western Studios, Hollywood, California, on January 22 - February 14, 1966 at Gold Star Studios, Los Angeles, California, on March 11, 1966 at Sunset Sound Recorders, Hollywood, California and on March 13 - April 13, 1966 at Columbia Studios, Los Angeles, California
Producer: Brian Wilson
Style: Sunshine Pop

Comments:
Richie Unterberger for allmusic: "The best Beach Boys album, and one of the best of the 1960s. The group here reached a whole new level in terms of both composition and production, layering tracks upon tracks of vocals and instruments to create a richly symphonic sound. Conventional keyboards and guitars were combined with exotic touches of orchestrated strings, bicycle bells, buzzing organs, harpsichords, flutes, theremin, Hawaiian-sounding string instruments, Coca-Cola cans, barking dogs, and more. It wouldn't have been a classic without great songs, and this has some of the group's most stunning melodies, as well as lyrical themes which evoke both the intensity of newly born love affairs and the disappointment of failed romance (add in some general statements about loss of innocence and modern-day confusion as well). The spiritual quality of the material is enhanced by some of the most gorgeous upper-register male vocals (especially by Brian and Carl Wilson) ever heard on a rock record. (...) It's often said that this is more of a Brain Wilson album than a Beach Boys recording (session musicians played most of the parts), but it should be noted that the harmonies are pure Beach Boys (and some of their best). Massively influential upon its release (although it was a relatively low seller compared to their previous LPs), it immediately vaunted the band into the top level of rock innovators among the intelligentsia, especially in Britain, where it was a much bigger hit."
nj: "Overproduced EmoSpectorCrank stuff from the mid-sixties, but still far better than anything that overhyped frauds like 64 Cenobites, Door Knobs In The Meantime, Rising Furniture or Henna Blonde have EVER released so far."
nicolas: "When I got this album, the first track that fascinated me was the unreleased rehersal when they sing a capella. Such a perfection set shivers down my spine. Then I discovered the rest of the album. Favorite tracks : Sloop John B and God Only Knows."
Honorio: "Brian Wilson left aside the glorification of Californian life, the beaches, cars and girls that characterized the thematic of Beach Boys till then. Wilson: "I was not trying to entertain people, I was expressing my feelings straight from the heart". It was the time to talk about feelings, dreams ("Wouldn’t it Be Nice"), maladjustment ("I Just Wasn’t Made for These Times"), spiritual love ("God Only Knows") or losing of innocence ("Caroline No": "Where did your long hair go / Where is the girl I used to know / How could you lose that happy glow?")."

Re: The 1960s album poll: position 3

John
I knew the Beatles backlash on these forums would keep them out of #1.


While it might be surprising that a Beatles album isn't #1, I don't know that I'd call 4 albums in the top 10 evidence of a "backlash," necessarily.

A tragedy, maybe.

Re: The 1960s album poll: position 1

The Number 1

Well, finally the ones who tried to guess the final #1 were all wrong. The Beatles on #3, the Beach Boys on #2 and... the Velvet Underground on #1!! The Factory boys and girls with their innovative and idiosyncratic sound captured the heart of AM Forum voters. Ladies and gentlemen please welcome...


1. The Velvet Underground & Nico - The Velvet Underground & Nico



Points: 1445
Biggest fans: Brad and Chris (#1), Charlie Driggs (#2), Romain (#4), Gillingham, Harold Wexler, Honorio, Jackson and Stephan (#5)
Position in AM 3000: #3 of the 1960s and #3 of all time
Position in 1967 poll: #1
Released on March 12, 1967 (Verve V6-5008 )
Recorded on April 18 - 23, 1966 at Scepter Studios, New York City, on May 1966 at TTG Studios, Hollywood, California and on November, 1966 at Mayfair Sound Studios, New York City
Producer: Andy Warhol, Tom Wilson
Style: Art Rock

Comments:
Mark Deming for allmusic: "One would be hard pressed to name a rock album whose influence has been as broad and pervasive as "The Velvet Underground and Nico". While it reportedly took over a decade for the album's sales to crack six figures, glam, punk, new wave, goth, noise, and nearly every other left-of-center rock movement owes an audible debt to this set. While The Velvet Underground had as distinctive a sound as any band, what's most surprising about this album is its diversity. Here, the Velvets dipped their toes into dreamy pop ("Sunday Morning"), tough garage rock ("Waiting for the Man"), stripped-down R&B ("There She Goes Again"), and understated love songs ("I'll Be Your Mirror") when they weren't busy creating sounds without pop precedent. Lou Reed's lyrical exploration of drugs and kinky sex (then risky stuff in film and literature, let alone "teen music") always received the most press attention, but the music Reed, John Cale, Sterling Morrison and Maureen Tucker played was as radical as the words they accompanied. The bracing discord of "European Son", the troubling beauty of "All Tomorrow's Parties", and the expressive dynamics of "Heroin", all remain as compelling as the day they were recorded. While the significance of Nico's contributions have been debated over the years, she meshes with the band's outlook in that she hardly sounds like a typical rock vocalist, and if Andy Warhol's presence as producer was primarily a matter of signing the checks, his notoriety allowed The Velvet Underground to record their material without compromise, which would have been impossible under most other circumstances. Few rock albums are as important as "The Velvet Underground and Nico"."
nicolas: "When you try to strip it of all the hype and critic devotion, what is left of this album ? The essential: a string of brillant songs, sometimes a bit messy, variety, noise, intensity and an arty touch. Perfect for a subway ride."
nj: "This is the debut album of New York based Velvet Underground and Yellow Banana is a coprophilia codeword for junkie hustler turds which is double epic army to me, so the gay fake whale samples in some of those songs don't bother me that much."
Honorio: "A series of fortunate collisions generated this masterpiece: the collision between street-wise rock & roll of Lou Reed and classical background of John Cale, between those intuitive musicians and pop-art Pope Andy Warhol, between heroin and pushers urban stories and the decadent glamour of The Factory transvestites and starlets, between rock & roll and art."


And that was all, my dear friends. Tomorrow I will post the personal Top 10s and the Excel file (removing the songs list for not ruin the surprise).
Then I will take a two-weeks break for voting in the 2001 poll and for preparing two conferences I have to impart on April. But I will return with a no less fascinating 60s song list as soon as I can.
Many thanks to each and everyone of the 20 voters (nj, sonofsamiam, Henry, Mindrocker, Georgie, nicolas, Harold Wexler, Stephan, Gillingham, Brad, Miguel, Listyguy, John, Henrik, Romain, Chris, Rocky Raccoon, Charlie Driggs and Jackson).
Many thanks too to the ones that did not sent votes but made some comments in the post.
All my gratitude to the ones that wrote those wonderful comments on the albums: Listyguy, Rocky Raccoon, nicolas and nj (we all know how difficult it is to write some comments not being professional critics, many many thanks for making this effort).
And finally some special thanks of course to the Magnificent Seven that were there all the way through.
Good night, sweet dreams, see you tomorrow.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Honorio
Well, some comments before posting the two first positions:
- About the times per year I listen again to well-known albums (being the Velvets or even the Beatles) probably it’s not too much. The easy access to music now (Spotify and all that) makes that there so much music waiting to be listened that I don’t go back too often to those albums. Anyway talking about VU probably the album I’m more willing to listen again could be the self-titled third (I’m not the only one, it reached on this poll a meritory #22). But I understand your point, Henry, I like the VU second album but I must admit I don’t revisit it too often (especially the B-side).
- And yes, Jackson, I can perfectly enjoy the White Album all the way through. And I know, it’s not perfect, it’s inconsistent and it has a lot of ups and downs. Just like life.
- Stephan, #4 and #5 had the same points but I’m not sure if this means that there is a tie. I’m not sure about how the formula works. I simply posted the list in the order that the albums appear on the Excel file. If same points mean ties (as logically one can think) we have several other ties (you can see the points below every album cover on the post). The tie between "Revolver" and "Highway 61" could be broken in favor to The Beatles (two voters had "Revolver" as their #1 while Dylan's album received its only #1 from you, Stephan).
- Mmm, John, I’m not sure if this is the most shocking poll so far (in fact Listyguy joked about the Top 10 being quite similar to Rolling Stone). Think about that (except for The Zombies) the rest of the Top 10 it’s the same that the official AM list (but with the positions changed). But it’s been a wonderful trip to me (and I hope that it was for everyone).
- And yes, Rocky Raccoon, this is not tragedy, this is FUN.


Great job as always Honorio.

You are the best at this poll business

The VU victory gives me an unsurprising cringe at this point, given the folks voting in this poll.

Isn't diversity of opinion fun.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Honorio
- Stephan, #4 and #5 had the same points but I’m not sure if this means that there is a tie. I’m not sure about how the formula works. I simply posted the list in the order that the albums appear on the Excel file. If same points mean ties (as logically one can think) we have several other ties (you can see the points below every album cover on the post). The tie between "Revolver" and "Highway 61" could be broken in favor to The Beatles (two voters had "Revolver" as their #1 while Dylan's album received its only #1 from you, Stephan).
This point system is not limited to integers, so probably there's a difference between #4 and #5 in the decimals.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Wow, this was very interesting to the end! But not that surprising, I think. All albums in the top 10 (except Zombies) are super-classics so whatever the order had been there would have been several complaints.

Fantastic show again, Honorio!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

Seeing The Zombies making the top 10 is wonderful! Time of the Season for loving indeed.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Just adding my kudos. Looking forward to the song results, but before then, take a well-deserved rest.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

Triumph! For the very first time here (I think), my choice for #1 finished #1, and I didn't even participate!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

This was THE poll, maybe because i really love this decade. Well, wonderful results, wonderful presentation, really, terrific work.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

I just listened to the full album in honor of their victory. It's good, but not the best of the decade.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

This might be the biggest surprise #1 I've seen in these polls.

I would have placed the top five:

VU: #9
Pet Sounds: #14
White Album: #20
Revolver: #5
Highway 61: #4

Probably wouldn't have made a difference. Though I might have pushed either Hendrix or Blonde On Blonde up a notch or two.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

Listyguy
I just listened to the full album in honor of their victory. It's good, but not the best of the decade.


Excellent!!

I listened to a few tracks over the past few days to give them another chance in view of the many positive comments from others in the forum about the album.

While I can certainly admire the VU effort with admiration for its experimentation, I doubt that I will ever enjoy it sufficiently to call it "good" on the basis of enjoyment alone.

In time, I may also be able to appreciate descriptions of the musical mastery demonstrated by the songs in an epistemological manner. But, the declarations and explanations of such mastery to date, have not yet convinced me that the album objectively warrants its fabulous standing.

That said, I am very happy for Moonbeam and others who truly cherish the album now that it has reached the top position in this poll.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

Great number one, though I would have been just as satisfied with the Beach Boys winning. The diversity of the songs on The VU & Nico is just incredible, from the lazy pop of "Sunday Morning" and "Femme Fatale" to droning noise of "Heroin" and "Venus in Furs." I've recently began to enjoy "The Black Angel's Death Song" and "European Son," which I previously thought was a weak way to end the album.

Too bad this poll had only 20 voters. I would have liked to see what others' favorites are.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

how I'd rank the top 5.

Revolver (#1 of the 60's)
Pet Sounds (#2)
The White Album (#4)
Highway 61 Revisited (#5)
The Velvet Underground and Nico (#7)

Not too shabby.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Rocky Raccoon
Gillingham
Midaso
Oh man - what a tragedy,don't get me wrong The White Album is pretty good,but top 3 of the 60s - really?


I agree. At least with the 'tragedy' part, not with the 'pretty good' part. An album including both Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da (my god) and Revolution 9 (not to mention some other mediocre songs) won't do it for me.

On the other hand, it's a nice surpirse that Revolver is not in the highest position (although I like it much more than The Beatles).


Hopefully you guys don't actually think of this as a "tragedy." Tragedy applies to what's happening in Japan. This should at the very most be a mild disappointment. If not, you're taking this poll thing way too seriously.
Don't view those words too seriously. I wouldn't even dare to mention this poll and the catastrophe in Japan in one sentence (well, I guess I just did). But in the context of this poll,and in that context only, a top 3 position for 'The Beatles' (album) is a tragedy indeed. But considering the number one, I will accept this tragedy happily.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 5-4

Congratulations again, Honorio!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 10-8

Thanks a lot for the great presentation Honorio! Very worthwhile.

Henry
Gillingham
Henry
Gillingham
It would be great if Dylan or The VU could run away with the first spot, but that's not going to happen, alas.


Although, I've listened to it a dozen times, I never thought much of the VU album.

Do you guys actually listen to the album 5-10 times each year?

Just askin'.
Yes I do. Maybe ten times is a bit too many, for the same reasons as Moonbeam has, but five times a year should be easy at the moment. And yes, I also enjoy it a lot. Same goes for their self-titled third album.


Then perhaps you can explain what you find so enjoyable about the VU songs when you listen to them. Do they put you into a particularly edifying mood, or is their some fantastic musicianship that I have missed so far?
Very important for my apprreciation is that it sounds totally different from the bulk of the 60s pop sound. That not only adds to the respect I have for them, but too the enjoyment of their music as well. Some songs just put a smile on my face instantly when I hear them. And although I have to admit I don't love all their work (Off VU&N: Run, Run, Run and The Black Angel's Death Song), some songs (Sunday Morning, Pale Blue Eyes) are sheer heaven and others (like Venus in Furs and Heroin) are very exciting all the way through.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

Jackson
Great number one, though I would have been just as satisfied with the Beach Boys winning. The diversity of the songs on The VU & Nico is just incredible, from the lazy pop of "Sunday Morning" and "Femme Fatale" to droning noise of "Heroin" and "Venus in Furs." I've recently began to enjoy "The Black Angel's Death Song" and "European Son," which I previously thought was a weak way to end the album.

Too bad this poll had only 20 voters. I would have liked to see what others' favorites are.


Here are my top 20 albums of the 1960s.

1. The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico
2. Can - Monster Movie
3. Otis Redding - Otis Blue
4. The Velvet Underground - White Light/White Heat
5. The Doors - The Doors
6. The Doors - Strange Days
7. Nico - Chelsea Girl
8. Scott Walker - Scott 4
9. The Stooges - The Stooges
10. Love - Forever Changes
11. Jimi Hendrix Experience - Are You Experienced?
12. The Kinks - The Kinks Are Village Green Preservation Society
13. Nico - The Marble Index
14. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
15. Jimi Hendrix Experience - Axis: Bold As Love
16. The Doors - Waiting for the Sun
17. Sly and the Family Stone - Dance to the Music
18. David Bowie - Space Oddity
19. The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground
20. Jimi Hendrix Experience - Electric Ladyland

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

Gracias Honorio

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

What an incredibly good surprise.
A little bit too much of Dylan and Beach boys album in the top 10 but the VU in first place is sooo good.
Eleven songs : eight fabulous and three only very good.
The first side of the disc is maybe the most perfect in all time ?!

And of course, thanks Honorio.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 15-11

Great poll and great run down presentation, Honorio.

Too bad I didn't join the voting, but the result sure looks fine anyway!

Hasta Luego!

Re: The 1960s album poll: the individual Top 10s

Many thanks for all the compliments!!


Time for the individual Top 10s and some correlation coefficients (for the complete lists and the complete correlations go to the Excel file).
Note:
- Overall correlation means the correlation coefficient between a particular voter and the rest of the voters, I will call #1 the one with lower correlation (the "different" one) and #20 the one with the higher (the "normal" one).
- Best friends means the ones with higher particular correlation coefficient, I will name three in ranked order (the first one the one with higher correlation).



Brad:



1. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
2. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
3. Rolling Stones, The - Beggars Banquet
4. Beatles, The - Rubber Soul
5. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground
6. Dylan, Bob - Blonde on Blonde
7. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
8. Velvet Underground, The - White Light/White Heat
9. Rolling Stones, The - Let It Bleed
10. Beatles, The - Revolver

Overall correlation: 0.52 (#15)
Best friends: nicolas, Listyguy, Chris



Charlie Driggs:



1. Morrison, Van - Astral Weeks
2. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
3. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
4. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle
5. Sly & the Family Stone - Stand!
6. Love - Forever Changes
7. Monks, The - Black Monk Time
8. Doors, The - The Doors
9. Coltrane, John - My Favorite Things
10. Simone, Nina - Pastel Blues

Overall correlation: 0.42 (#13)
Best friends: nj, Honorio, Henrik/Miguel



Chris:



1. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
2. Beatles, The - Revolver
3. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
4. Dylan, Bob - Blonde on Blonde
5. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground
6. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
7. Beatles, The - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
8. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
9. Rolling Stones, The - Beggars Banquet
10. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
Overall correlation: 0.69 (#20)
Best friends: Harold Wexler, Rocky Raccoon, Honorio



Georgie:



1. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
2. Millennium, The - Begin
3. Beatles, The - Abbey Road
4. Love - Forever Changes
5. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
6. Kinks, The - The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society
7. Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica
8. Drake, Nick - Five Leaves Left
9. Morrison, Van - Astral Weeks
10. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle

Overall correlation: 0.36 (#9)
Best friends: sonofsamiam, Harold Wexler, Rocky Raccoon



Gillingham:



1. Rolling Stones, The - Beggars Banquet
2. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
3. Hendrix, Jimi - Are You Experienced
4. Cohen, Leonard - Songs of Leonard Cohen
5. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
6. Dylan, Bob - John Wesley Harding
7. Doors, The - The Doors
8. Drake, Nick - Five Leaves Left
9. Evans, Bill - Sunday at the Village Vanguard
10. Beatles, The - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Overall correlation: 0.27 (#5)
Best friends: Stephan, Henrik, nicolas



Harold Wexler:



1. Beatles, The - Revolver
2. Love - Forever Changes
3. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
4. Rolling Stones, The - Let It Bleed
5. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
6. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
7. Beatles, The - Abbey Road
8. Hendrix, Jimi - Are You Experienced
9. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
10. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle

Overall correlation: 0.67 (#19)
Best friends: Chris, Rocky Raccoon, Henry



Henrik:



1. Sly & the Family Stone - Stand!
2. Drake, Nick - Five Leaves Left
3. Simon & Garfunkel - Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme
4. Cohen, Leonard - Songs of Leonard Cohen
5. Walker, Scott - Scott 4
6. Beatles, The - Abbey Road
7. King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King
8. Brel, Jacques - Ces gens-là
9. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
10. Doors, The - The Doors

Overall correlation: 0.42 (#14)
Best friends: Honorio, nicolas, Chris



Henry:



1. Beatles, The - Abbey Road
2. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
3. Beatles, The - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
4. Hendrix, Jimi - Are You Experienced
5. Beatles, The - Revolver
6. Band, The - The Band
7. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II
8. Hendrix, Jimi - Electric Ladyland
9. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
10. Who, The - Tommy

Overall correlation: 0.38 (#11)
Best friends: Rocky Raccoon, Harold Wexler, Honorio/nicolas



Honorio:



1. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
2. Dylan, Bob - Blonde on Blonde
3. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
4. Beatles, The - Revolver
5. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
6. Simon & Garfunkel - Bookends
7. Cohen, Leonard - Songs of Leonard Cohen
8. Dylan, Bob - The Times They Are A-Changin'
9. Redding, Otis - Otis Blue / Otis Redding Sings Soul
10. Love - Forever Changes

Overall correlation: 0.58 (#17)
Best friends: Henrik/Rocky Raccoon, Miguel



Jackson:



1. Kinks, The - The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society
2. Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme
3. Mingus, Charles - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady
4. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle
5. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
6. Cohen, Leonard - Songs of Leonard Cohen
7. Love - Forever Changes
8. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
9. King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King
10. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground

Overall correlation: 0.35 (#8 )
Best friends: nj, sonofsamiam, Stephan



John:



1. Beatles, The - Rubber Soul
2. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
3. Beatles, The - Help!
4. Beatles, The - Revolver
5. Pink Floyd - The Piper at the Gates of Dawn
6. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle
7. Beatles, The - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
8. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
9. Kinks, The - The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society
10. Beatles, The - Abbey Road

Overall correlation: 0.37 (#10)
Best friends: Miguel, Honorio, Chris



Listyguy:



1. Hendrix, Jimi - Are You Experienced
2. Beatles, The - Abbey Road
3. Sly & the Family Stone - Stand!
4. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II
5. Hendrix, Jimi - Axis: Bold as Love
6. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
7. Doors, The - The Doors
8. Beatles, The - Rubber Soul
9. Dylan, Bob - Bringing It All Back Home
10. Hendrix, Jimi - Electric Ladyland

Overall correlation: 0.39 (#12)
Best friends: nicolas, Rocky Raccoon, Brad



Miguel:



1. Kinks, The - The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society
2. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
3. Cohen, Leonard - Songs of Leonard Cohen
4. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
5. Morrison, Van - Astral Weeks
6. Byrds, The - The Notorious Byrd Brothers
7. Beatles, The - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
8. Beatles, The - Rubber Soul
9. Who, The - The Who Sell Out
10. Byrds, The - Mr. Tambourine Man

Overall correlation: 0.30 (#5)
Best friends: Honorio, John, Chris



Mindrocker:



1. Zappa, Frank/The Mothers of Invention - We're Only in It for the Money
2. 13th Floor Elevators, The - The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators
3. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
4. Hendrix, Jimi - Are You Experienced
5. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II
6. Byrds, The - The Notorious Byrd Brothers
7. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
8. Rolling Stones, The - Beggars Banquet
9. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
10. Zappa, Frank/The Mothers of Invention - Freak Out!

Overall correlation: 0.30 (#6)
Best friends: nicolas, Harold Wexler, Listyguy



nicolas:



1. Beatles, The - Abbey Road
2. Brassens, Georges - Nº 7
3. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
4. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
5. Beatles, The - Magical Mystery Tour
6. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
7. Young, Neil - Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere
8. Hendrix, Jimi - Electric Ladyland
9. Rolling Stones, The - Beggars Banquet
10. Coltrane, John - My Favorite Things

Overall correlation: 0.59 (#18 )
Best friends: Listyguy, Brad, Mindrocker



nj:



1. United States of America, The - The United States of America
2. Velvet Underground, The - White Light/White Heat
3. Dolphy, Eric - Out to Lunch!
4. Mingus, Charles - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady
5. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle
6. Monks, The - Black Monk Time
7. Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme
8. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
9. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
10. Mutantes, Os - Os Mutantes

Overall correlation: 0.12 (#1)
Best friends: Charlie Driggs/Jackson, sonofsamiam



Rocky Raccoon:



1. Beatles, The - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
2. Dylan, Bob - Blonde on Blonde
3. Hendrix, Jimi - Are You Experienced
4. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album)
5. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
6. Rolling Stones, The - Beggars Banquet
7. Sly & the Family Stone - Stand!
8. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
9. Beatles, The - Rubber Soul
10. Dylan, Bob - Bringing It All Back Home

Overall correlation: 0.53 (#16)
Best friends: Harold Wexler, Henry, Chris



Romain:



1. Beatles, The - Revolver
2. Springfield, Dusty - Dusty in Memphis
3. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle
4. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
5. Morricone, Ennio - Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo
6. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II
7. Brassens, Georges - Nº 7
8. Hendrix, Jimi - Are You Experienced
9. Beatles, The - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
10. Doors, The - The Doors

Overall correlation: 0.18 (#2)
Best friends: Brad, Henrik, Chris



sonofsamiam:



1. Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme
2. Mingus, Charles - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady
3. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
4. Mutantes, Os - Os Mutantes
5. Simone, Nina - Pastel Blues
6. Millennium, The - Begin
7. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle
8. Sanders, Pharoah - Karma
9. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
10. Walker, Scott - Scott 4

Overall correlation: 0.21 (#3)
Best friends: nj, Jackson, Georgie



Stephan:



1. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited
2. Dylan, Bob - Blonde on Blonde
3. Dylan, Bob - Bringing It All Back Home
4. Rolling Stones, The - Beggars Banquet
5. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico
6. Who, The - Tommy
7. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds
8. Rolling Stones, The - Let It Bleed
9. Cohen, Leonard - Songs of Leonard Cohen
10. Dylan, Bob - The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan

Overall correlation: 0.33 (#7)
Best friends: Chris, Gillingham, Jackson



Lower individual correlation: nj/Henry (-0.44)
Higher individual correlation: Harold Wexler/Chris (0.64)

Re: The 1960s album poll: the individual Top 10s

Great stats summary! I'm not sure if it's consciously but I like that the correlations are ordered (#1-20) from lowest to highest.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Thankfully, 70. Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica hasn't joined VU as a top ranked album - or the cringing would be far more severe.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

shut up, latest antagonist of mine.

the one and only DifferentOneMan has spoken

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

No antagonism transmitted or received.

Thanks for the laughs

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

60's music is great because it's message is not only timeless but also urgent. The music sometimes pointed fingers, but it almost always came back to a message of love and unity. There are still artists who have that message but don't come close to the urgency that the artists of the 60's had. I wish some of our acclaimed artists of today had a little more hope in their music. It's kind of depressing thinking about all of the great messages these songs had to offer and now that message is lost and they're just great songs. Sigh.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Nice to see I'm most similar to nj and sonofsam when given the same list of albums to rank. Now I only need to listen to thousands of more albums to catch up with them.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

First of all, THANKS Honorio for this fantastic poll.


One thing I have to say : I'm not happy with that #1, even though I love the VU & Nico. For 2 reasons

1) VU & Nico is a fantastic album but it's the 60's viewed from 2011 .

2) That album had no success when it came out. It started selling in the 80's. I really don't feel comfortable with this.

I'm not surprised to see it at #1 though, but it's the AM bias : intellectual and sometimes snobbish approach of music.
That doesn't mean I don't love you, but I'm not pleased with this result and I needed to say it.

Wow, I think I've just started a debate.


Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Not sure it's really a debate, is it? We just picked our favorites, not necessarily "the best". Had I chosen a different album as number one, I would not have been true to myself or to the nature of this survey!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

I don't mind those reasons. Maybe you have a point with the first one, but the poll is held now, not in 1970.

And why should the album have had succes back then?

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

nicolas
First of all, THANKS Honorio for this fantastic poll.


One thing I have to say : I'm not happy with that #1, even though I love the VU & Nico. For 2 reasons

1) VU & Nico is a fantastic album but it's the 60's viewed from 2011 .

2) That album had no success when it came out. It started selling in the 80's. I really don't feel comfortable with this.

I'm not surprised to see it at #1 though, but it's the AM bias : intellectual and sometimes snobbish approach of music.
That doesn't mean I don't love you, but I'm not pleased with this result and I needed to say it.

Wow, I think I've just started a debate.




While I appreciate the innovative abilities demonstrated by the VU & Nico album. I almost never enjoy listening to at least 60% of the songs on the album. When I play the album for others, their reaction is typically "please turn that crap off."

This is our number 1. Cringe!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Why does an album have to have commercial success for us to legitimately appreciate it without being 'snobbish'? By the same line of thinking we're all snobbish for liking The Beatles more than Katy Perry.

Velvet Underground may not have sold as many copies but they influenced every counter-cultural rock movement in the last forty years.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

wellll.. Alpert's Whipped Cream & Other Delights owns 5 friggily fabbed up stars on AMG.. i guess nic le anti-shtick has a point somehow

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

BillAdama
By the same line of thinking we're all snobbish for liking The Beatles more than Katy Perry.

I don't understand - the Beatles have outsold every other artist in history

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

BillAdama
Why does an album have to have commercial success for us to legitimately appreciate it without being 'snobbish'? By the same line of thinking we're all snobbish for liking The Beatles more than Katy Perry.

Velvet Underground may not have sold as many copies but they influenced every counter-cultural rock movement in the last forty years.


I understand that many performers point out some influence from VU. "Every" counter-cultural rock movement in the last forty years is likely an overstating of the situation.

One of my problems with VU is that while they are capable of creating tension with off-key notes throughout there compositions, they fail (in my view) to bring these moments of tension to a harmonic resolution.

I realize that others admire this approach. But, it doesn't work for me and I believe failure to reach harmonic resolution contributes to the "turn that crap off" response that VU frequently inspires.

My surmise is that those among the twenty poll participants that rate VU more highly than myself have a greater affection for such unresolved dissonance.

I also find that the tendency of some performers over the past 20 years to extend the duration of the off-key segments of their compositions before providing harmonic resolution to be more annoying than enjoyable.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Henry

One of my problems with VU is that while they are capable of creating tension with off-key notes throughout there compositions, they fail (in my view) to bring these moments of tension to a harmonic resolution.


too sad... dear latest antagonist (nicked OldFartor btw): why don't you just stop smelling for butterfly wings underneath those dragonflies(?)./. filth isn't a matter of course, it's a long term trained nostril task. and we still have 80s Genesis, so

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Earl
BillAdama
By the same line of thinking we're all snobbish for liking The Beatles more than Katy Perry.

I don't understand - the Beatles have outsold every other artist in history


I guess that he means that if commercial value means anything we would praise the likes of Perry and Kesha. And that stupid Friday viral song would be so far the best thing about 2011.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

HRS

I guess that he means that if commercial value means anything we would praise the likes of Perry and Kesha. And that stupid Friday viral song would be so far the best thing about 2011.


um.ok.edit adjustment: nicolas can't stand the idea of "cold music" ruling a decade.
but then again, it would turn to really interesting what-if-WHATS!? if he considers any name you've mentioned above much "warmer" than the artistic zits of his most beloved decade(s)

ps: that's no moon/lousy attempt to stigmatiz/se an AMFreg, just a half.ass.lazy way to describe and explain said person's motives... i'm willing to laugh my ass cheek implants off if nic le second brick's comment was all about commercial success..

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

The Beatles outsold every other artist in history, but not _last year_.

Anyway, shouldn't staying power and lasting appeal also matter in the quality of a record? If two groups are equally popular now, isn't that more impressive if they were less popular back when they were new? It's easier to hold onto fans than it is to gain new ones.

Velvet Underground's dissonant style isn't very everyone, but for my own tastes, I prefer rough emotional energy to melodic polish.

(Back to the John/Paul debate again.)

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

HRS

I guess that he means that if commercial value means anything we would praise the likes of Perry and Kesha. And that stupid Friday viral song would be so far the best thing about 2011.

Every kid in my school was singing that damn song today!!!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

nj


um.ok.edit adjustment: nicolas can't stand the idea of "cold music" ruling a decade.
but then again, it would turn to really interesting what-if-WHATS!? if he considers any name you've mentioned above much "warmer" than the artistic zits of his most beloved decade(s)

ps: that's no moon/lousy attempt to stigmatiz/se an AMFreg, just a half.ass.lazy way to describe and explain said person's motives... i'd laugh my ass cheeks implants off if nic le second brick's comment was all about commercial success..


Ok then it would and you can laugh! but i still hate that Friday song! And I do agree that standing the test of time and winning acclaim is much better than receiving big attention during the decade and then seeing it decline (Not the case of The Beatles) and we can't forget that other bands like The Kinks or The Zombies weren't that successful back in the day; and who doesn't remember people calling Pet Sounds a commercial failure for no reaching the heights of previous Beach Boys records? And what about the whole folk crowd snob of Dylan's electric years? I guess VU is not alone, they're just the bigger example and the ones with bigger gains over time.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Listyguy

Every kid in my school was singing that damn song today!!!


Make that a two! Same at my college! Everyone i know was singing this song - for fun or because they actually liked it! The lyrics go as far as things like: "Friday, Friday Gotta get down on Friday" and "Party and Party and Yeah Fun Fun Fun" such a atrocity!

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

nj
i'm willing to laugh my ass cheek implants off


Pictures or gtfo.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

BillAdama
Anyway, shouldn't staying power and lasting appeal also matter in the quality of a record? If two groups are equally popular now, isn't that more impressive if they were less popular back when they were new? It's easier to hold onto fans than it is to gain new ones.


I would think both groups have added fans since the '60s. Population growth and all that. I'm sure the Velvet's fan base has grown at a faster rate than the Beatles', but that being said, I hardly think the "two groups are equally popular now" statement is an accurate one outside the cozy confines of AM.

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Rocky Raccoon
nj
i'm willing to laugh my ass cheek implants off


Pictures or gtfo.


both, sir



the mind is a wonderful bottom to taste..

Re: The 1960s album poll: positions 70-61

Rocky Raccoon
BillAdama
Anyway, shouldn't staying power and lasting appeal also matter in the quality of a record? If two groups are equally popular now, isn't that more impressive if they were less popular back when they were new? It's easier to hold onto fans than it is to gain new ones.


I would think both groups have added fans since the '60s. Population growth and all that. I'm sure the Velvet's fan base has grown at a faster rate than the Beatles', but that being said, I hardly think the "two groups are equally popular now" statement is an accurate one outside the cozy confines of AM.


No, but among people who listen to a broad array of music and don't limit themselves to either just popular stuff or just one genre, people will generally say the Beatles are better than the Velvets, but they won't agree on a favorite Beatles album, but they will agree on a favorite Velvets album. And that's exactly what the poll results reflect.

Re: The 1960s album poll: number 1

Some comments about a number one:

Gillingham
Very important for my apprreciation is that it sounds totally different from the bulk of the 60s pop sound.

Yes, I agree. It sounded like coming out of the blue, with no known precedents. This mix of contemporary avant-garde with rock & roll was fresh and new then. Most of the acclaim is based on that. But this is not completely true. Have you listened the first CD of the box-set "Peel Slowly and See" with the first demo from the Velvets? You have noticed then that Bob Dylan was a major influence in Lou Reed early career.


Harold Wexler
Whenever I listen to the album, I await with great anticipation the moment toward the end of "I'm Waiting for the Man" when Cale suddenly starts banging on the "wrong" piano key, over and over again until the fadeout. I consider it one of the greatest moments in rock history. Others may not. Doesn't bother me a bit.

Exactly, Harold!! You can listen too after that "wrong" piano key how the same Cale begins to go up and down the scale with his bass guitar. I remember reading some statements of Lou Reed raving about this bass part as the perfect example of the approach of John Cale, a classically-trained musician trying to play (more or less) straight rock & roll and obtaining instead a bizarre own style.
The more I listen to the album the more I like Cale contributions. Those repetitive parts and drones coming from the minimalism of La Monte Young (then the last word on contemporary classical) was that made the difference with the rest of the rock bands of the era. The piano parts on "All Tomorrow Parties" or "I'm Waiting for the Man", the bass arrangements (sadly most of them buried in the mix) and especially the four stellar appearences of the viola (subdued on "Sunday Morning", hypnotic on "Venus in Furs", disturbing on "Black Angel's Death Song" and both hypnotic and disturbing on "Heroin"). Not forgetting that delicious celesta part on "Sunday Morning".


nicolas
1) VU & Nico is a fantastic album but it's the 60's viewed from 2011 .
2) That album had no success when it came out. It started selling in the 80's. I really don't feel comfortable with this.

Well, I can do nothing but agree, nicolas. You nailed it. But the story of "The Velvet Underground & Nico" is almost romantic, the kind of stories that drove the critics crazy. A band with a resolute attitude and a revolutionary sound (and image, his "Exploding Plastic Inevitable" multimedia shows were pioneers too) that were at the time underestimated by critics and unheard by the general audience. But history put the things in its place. Brian Eno once said that only a hundred people bought Velvet Underground records when they first came out, but those hundred people all went out and formed their own bands. And it was true: Iggy Pop, Jonathan Richman, Chris Stein, Johnny Thunders, Richard Hell or... David Bowie were among those hundred people.
The band disbanded frustrated by the lack of success and recognition but, after the stone they threw sank in the water, the circular waves that made were wider and wider and moved outwards further and further. First the glam-rock via David Bowie (and Lou Reed himself), then the punk-rock via Television, then the goth-rock via Joy Division, the alternative-rock via Pixies ("I like Lou Reed” she said sticking her tongue in my ear), and so on. As I told you, it's a romantic story.
And yes, it's true, an hypotetical poll in 1970 wouldn't have included the album. But the acclaim began to rise quite quickly: NME put it at #13 of all time in 1974 in (probably) the first all-time critic list of pop albums ever and it ended at #14 in the first big critics poll that Paul Gambaccini put together in 1977. Both revised its position (rising it) in succesive updates, it was #7 on second Gambaccini poll in 1987 and #3 on NME list of 1993.


Henry
Based on my repeated frustration in attempting to find anything spectacular in the VU songs, I still wonder whether you and other VU fans listen to these VU albums regularly, or if the VU albums/songs are beloved for reasons other than listening enjoyment. (...) Then perhaps you can explain what you find so enjoyable about the VU songs when you listen to them. Do they put you into a particularly edifying mood, or is their some fantastic musicianship that I have missed so far?

No, no, no, Henry, it's not the point at all. I has nothing to do with "fantastic musicianship". In fact it's the opposite. The Velvets are considered now the first alternative rock band in the sense of pioneering of the "do it yourself" attitude. It became so influential (remember the Brian Eno quote) just because of that, the musicians-to-be that listened to it though: "I can do this".
But yes, I find a lot of spectacular things on the Velvets. I told before about John Cale contributions but I would like to point also to Lou Reed lyrics (the more closer to "spectacular" you can find on VU first album). First of all by the unheard thematics of drug-dealers-masochism (that probably scared away many listeners) but mainly because of the way he succeeded in using it, creating a new kind of street-wise poetry. And using varied approaches, from the linear narratives of "I'm Waiting for the Man" to the oblique poetry of "Black Angel's Death Song".
Two aspects on "musicianship" on the Velvets usually not considered "spectacular" but in my opinion quite remarkable are the vocal abilities of Lou Reed, not obviously a good singer in the conventional term but with a suggestive and innovative way of combine singing and talking (counterpointed in this album by the icy and ghostly tone of Nico). The other is the subdued, primitive and minimalistic drumming of Mo Tucker, with unconventional characteristics as her refusal to play cymbals, the playing on the bass drum with a mallet ("Venus in Furs") or the tambourine instead the charles cymbal ("Femme Fatale", where the drums sounds actually like a music box).
But I understand the point when you talk about "listening enjoyment". And, although it's an album I really enjoy listening, I agree in part of you that it's a difficult album. The main drawback now (in my humble opinion) is the amateurism in both the playing and the recording. The recording was sub-standard even at the time, the drums are poorly recorded and mixed too low, the bass is usually no audible, the vocals are too saturated. Obviously Andy Warhol as a producer knew nothing about recording a band, the technicians at the decrepit Scepter Studios in New York didn't knew what to do with a band like that one and the same Velvets did'nt seem too involved in technical aspects. Damn, they could have even cared in tuning the guitars prior to recording a song as sweet as "Femme Fatale"!
Fortunately (and after the refusal to release the material from various labels) they were forced to rely on a professional producer for a second chance, Tom Wilson, who was a former producer for Columbia including works for Bob Dylan or Simon & Garfunkel (he was the man behind "Like a Rolling Stone" or "The Sounds of Silence") and at the time was working for Verve Records producing the first album for The Mothers of Invention. They re-recorded three song at TTG Studios in Los Angeles under Wilson production (please listen to the original Scepter Studios version of I'm Waiting for the Man and you will see the difference). Later Wilson asked them for a hit and they recorded the wonderful "Sunday Morning". Probably Wilson should have re-recorded the whole material but probably there was no money enough for that.
The only thing that honestly, and using your favourite word, "cringes" to me is most of Lou Reed's work at lead guitar. Parts of the guitar solo on "All Tomorrow's Parties" are worthwhile (with its Hindu raga influences), the feedback on the beginning of the solo on "Run Run Run" was revolutionary at the time and the "ostrich" guitar (the whole guitar strings tuned to a single note) on "Venus in Furs" was quite original. But most of the guitar solos (on "Run Run Run" but especially on "European Song") were downright grating to me. I saw Lou Reed playing live in 2004 and 2005 and he is still unable to play a guitar solo properly. Oddly enough Reed is probably the most influential rhythmic guitar player ever, echoes of his characteristic way of strumming his clean electric guitar (with no other effects than reverb) can be heard throughout the whole history of alternative-rock, from Television to Nirvana.


nj
Henry

One of my problems with VU is that while they are capable of creating tension with off-key notes throughout there compositions, they fail (in my view) to bring these moments of tension to a harmonic resolution.

too sad... dear latest antagonist (nicked OldFartor btw): why don't you just stop smelling for butterfly wings underneath those dragonflies(?)

Perfectly stated, nj, "why don't you just stop smelling for butterfly wings underneath those dragonflies?", it's impossible to say it better.
But, Henry, the beauty is undoubtedly here, you don't need to dig deep to find it. And I’m not talking about the beautiful songs ("Sunday Morning" or "I'll Be Your Mirror"), can't you see the beauty (or harmonic resolution) on, let’s say, "Venus in Furs"?


Jackson
The diversity of the songs on The VU & Nico is just incredible, from the lazy pop of "Sunday Morning" and "Femme Fatale" to droning noise of "Heroin" and "Venus in Furs."

Yes, Jackson, incredible diversity. There was not only drone-music at all, there was much more.


Stephan
There most definitely is. Cale, Reed and Tucker are all fantastically gifted musicians and Reed's narratives are amazing. The frantic energy and force of songs like "Heroin", "I'm Waiting for The Man", "Sister Ray", "Rock and Roll" and many more are unparalleled and I'd listen to pretty much any of their albums over any (to me, slightly boring) Beatles record.

Yes, Stephan, I don’t agree with the whole sentence but I agree with liking the amazing narratives of Reed and the frantic energy.

Oops, I talked much too much (again). But summarizing and extracting a key word from every paragraph we have:
- Originality.
- Boldness.
- Sheer influence.
- Amazing lyrics.
- (Twisted) beauty.
- Diversity.
- Energy.
So my verdict is finally: the number 1 is well deserved. It's not my personal #1 (there is even less general agreement about my personal #1) but, contrary to nicolas, I'm happy to see "The Velvet Underground & Nico" as our #1.

And just one final note: hope that the people would have no fear to go back again to this thread after seeing the (impressive) picture that nj posted.

Re: The 1960s album poll: number 1

please take that photo away

i've seen a dozen like this in the past 3 months while documenting on Ivory Coast and sending vids to the media to help the people out there and the last thing I expected when coming here (seeking a sort of solace) is seeing another one.

No sorry for my reaction the other day. I like the VU, great songs, but its not representative of the 1960's not the way i see them. It's one of the only "cold" albums of the decade and you out it at #1

Re: The 1960s album poll: number 1

and my kids are playing in the back ground

nj man I love you but you went too far

i didn't want to cause such a hit and run tsunami after this wonderful poll; and i'm kind of disturbed by other events that consume my time.

Re: The 1960s album poll: number 1

Honorio
Some comments about a number one:

Harold Wexler
Whenever I listen to the album, I await with great anticipation the moment toward the end of "I'm Waiting for the Man" when Cale suddenly starts banging on the "wrong" piano key, over and over again until the fadeout. I consider it one of the greatest moments in rock history. Others may not. Doesn't bother me a bit.

Exactly, Harold!! You can listen too after that "wrong" piano key how the same Cale begins to go up and down the scale with his bass guitar. I remember reading some statements of Lou Reed raving about this bass part as the perfect example of the approach of John Cale, a classically-trained musician trying to play (more or less) straight rock & roll and obtaining instead a bizarre own style.
The more I listen to the album the more I like Cale contributions. Those repetitive parts and drones coming from the minimalism of La Monte Young (then the last word on contemporary classical) was that made the difference with the rest of the rock bands of the era. The piano parts on "All Tomorrow Parties" or "I'm Waiting for the Man", the bass arrangements (sadly most of them buried in the mix) and especially the four stellar appearances of the viola (subdued on "Sunday Morning", hypnotic on "Venus in Furs", disturbing on "Black Angel's Death Song" and both hypnotic and disturbing on "Heroin"). Not forgetting that delicious celesta part on "Sunday Morning".


nicolas
1) VU & Nico is a fantastic album but it's the 60's viewed from 2011 .
2) That album had no success when it came out. It started selling in the 80's. I really don't feel comfortable with this.

Well, I can do nothing but agree, nicolas. You nailed it. But the story of "The Velvet Underground & Nico" is almost romantic, the kind of stories that drove the critics crazy. A band with a resolute attitude and a revolutionary sound (and image, his "Exploding Plastic Inevitable" multimedia shows were pioneers too) that were at the time underestimated by critics and unheard by the general audience. But history put the things in its place. Brian Eno once said that only a hundred people bought Velvet Underground records when they first came out, but those hundred people all went out and formed their own bands. And it was true: Iggy Pop, Jonathan Richman, Chris Stein, Johnny Thunders, Richard Hell or... David Bowie were among those hundred people.
The band disbanded frustrated by the lack of success and recognition but, after the stone they threw sank in the water, the circular waves that made were wider and wider and moved outwards further and further. First the glam-rock via David Bowie (and Lou Reed himself), then the punk-rock via Television, then the goth-rock via Joy Division, the alternative-rock via Pixies ("I like Lou Reed” she said sticking her tongue in my ear), and so on. As I told you, it's a romantic story.
And yes, it's true, an hypothetical poll in 1970 wouldn't have included the album. But the acclaim began to rise quite quickly: NME put it at #13 of all time in 1974 in (probably) the first all-time critic list of pop albums ever and it ended at #14 in the first big critics poll that Paul Gambaccini put together in 1977. Both revised its position (rising it) in succesive updates, it was #7 on second Gambaccini poll in 1987 and #3 on NME list of 1993.


Henry
Based on my repeated frustration in attempting to find anything spectacular in the VU songs, I still wonder whether you and other VU fans listen to these VU albums regularly, or if the VU albums/songs are beloved for reasons other than listening enjoyment. (...) Then perhaps you can explain what you find so enjoyable about the VU songs when you listen to them. Do they put you into a particularly edifying mood, or is their some fantastic musicianship that I have missed so far?

No, no, no, Henry, it's not the point at all. I has nothing to do with "fantastic musicianship". In fact it's the opposite. The Velvets are considered now the first alternative rock band in the sense of pioneering of the "do it yourself" attitude. It became so influential (remember the Brian Eno quote) just because of that, the musicians-to-be that listened to it though: "I can do this".
But yes, I find a lot of spectacular things on the Velvets. I told before about John Cale contributions but I would like to point also to Lou Reed lyrics (the more closer to "spectacular" you can find on VU first album). First of all by the unheard thematics of drug-dealers-masochism (that probably scared away many listeners) but mainly because of the way he succeeded in using it, creating a new kind of street-wise poetry. And using varied approaches, from the linear narratives of "I'm Waiting for the Man" to the oblique poetry of "Black Angel's Death Song".
Two aspects on "musicianship" on the Velvets usually not considered "spectacular" but in my opinion quite remarkable are the vocal abilities of Lou Reed, not obviously a good singer in the conventional term but with a suggestive and innovative way of combine singing and talking (counterpointed in this album by the icy and ghostly tone of Nico). The other is the subdued, primitive and minimalistic drumming of Mo Tucker, with unconventional characteristics as her refusal to play cymbals, the playing on the bass drum with a mallet ("Venus in Furs") or the tambourine instead the charles cymbal ("Femme Fatale", where the drums sounds actually like a music box).
But I understand the point when you talk about "listening enjoyment". And, although it's an album I really enjoy listening, I agree in part of you that it's a difficult album. The main drawback now (in my humble opinion) is the amateurism in both the playing and the recording. The recording was sub-standard even at the time, the drums are poorly recorded and mixed too low, the bass is usually no audible, the vocals are too saturated. Obviously Andy Warhol as a producer knew nothing about recording a band, the technicians at the decrepit Scepter Studios in New York didn't knew what to do with a band like that one and the same Velvets did'nt seem too involved in technical aspects. Damn, they could have even cared in tuning the guitars prior to recording a song as sweet as "Femme Fatale"!
Fortunately (and after the refusal to release the material from various labels) they were forced to rely on a professional producer for a second chance, Tom Wilson, who was a former producer for Columbia including works for Bob Dylan or Simon & Garfunkel (he was the man behind "Like a Rolling Stone" or "The Sounds of Silence") and at the time was working for Verve Records producing the first album for The Mothers of Invention. They re-recorded three song at TTG Studios in Los Angeles under Wilson production (please listen to the original Scepter Studios version of I'm Waiting for the Man and you will see the difference). Later Wilson asked them for a hit and they recorded the wonderful "Sunday Morning". Probably Wilson should have re-recorded the whole material but probably there was no money enough for that.
The only thing that honestly, and using your favourite word, "cringes" to me is most of Lou Reed's work at lead guitar. Parts of the guitar solo on "All Tomorrow's Parties" are worthwhile (with its Hindu raga influences), the feedback on the beginning of the solo on "Run Run Run" was revolutionary at the time and the "ostrich" guitar (the whole guitar strings tuned to a single note) on "Venus in Furs" was quite original. But most of the guitar solos (on "Run Run Run" but especially on "European Song") were downright grating to me. I saw Lou Reed playing live in 2004 and 2005 and he is still unable to play a guitar solo properly. Oddly enough Reed is probably the most influential rhythmic guitar player ever, echoes of his characteristic way of strumming his clean electric guitar (with no other effects than reverb) can be heard throughout the whole history of alternative-rock, from Television to Nirvana.


nj
Henry

One of my problems with VU is that while they are capable of creating tension with off-key notes throughout there compositions, they fail (in my view) to bring these moments of tension to a harmonic resolution.

too sad... dear latest antagonist (nicked OldFartor btw): why don't you just stop smelling for butterfly wings underneath those dragonflies(?)

Perfectly stated, nj, "why don't you just stop smelling for butterfly wings underneath those dragonflies?", it's impossible to say it better.
But, Henry, the beauty is undoubtedly here, you don't need to dig deep to find it. And I’m not talking about the beautiful songs ("Sunday Morning" or "I'll Be Your Mirror"), can't you see the beauty (or harmonic resolution) on, let’s say, "Venus in Furs"?


Jackson
The diversity of the songs on The VU & Nico is just incredible, from the lazy pop of "Sunday Morning" and "Femme Fatale" to droning noise of "Heroin" and "Venus in Furs."

Yes, Jackson, incredible diversity. There was not only drone-music at all, there was much more.


Stephan
There most definitely is. Cale, Reed and Tucker are all fantastically gifted musicians and Reed's narratives are amazing. The frantic energy and force of songs like "Heroin", "I'm Waiting for The Man", "Sister Ray", "Rock and Roll" and many more are unparalleled and I'd listen to pretty much any of their albums over any (to me, slightly boring) Beatles record.

Yes, Stephan, I don’t agree with the whole sentence but I agree with liking the amazing narratives of Reed and the frantic energy.

Oops, I talked much too much (again). But summarizing and extracting a key word from every paragraph we have:
- Originality.
- Boldness.
- Sheer influence.
- Amazing lyrics.
- (Twisted) beauty.
- Diversity.
- Energy.
So my verdict is finally: the number 1 is well deserved. It's not my personal #1 (there is even less general agreement about my personal #1) but, contrary to nicolas, I'm happy to see "The Velvet Underground & Nico" as our #1.


Honorio - your ability to expound is masterful. Thanks for taking the time and putting in the effort for the material above.

Attempting to take note of your many excellent points, I now have the following perspectives:

1) There is no need to look for harmonic resolution in VU's works, because as my faux foe (NJ) so aptly described, VU was not interested in providing such resolution. If I can enjoy VU for what they are, great. If not, attempting to impose my preference on their astounding artistry will not enable me to enjoy VU any more. A great portion of their greatness is being unconventional and setting trends for others to follow, not meeting others expectations or preferences.

2) Based on the perspective described in number 1 above, it is no surprise that when I attempted to find the harmonic resolution you referred to in "Venus in Furs" I was unable to do so. But, now this not a disappointment to me. Instead it is a confirmation of the reality of what VU is. I can accept them for their accomplishments and acknowledge the appropriateness of the group of twenty selecting VU & Nico as the number 1 album of the 1960's for our group - while still finding relatively middling enjoyment when listening the VU & Nico album.

3) I am grateful for the amusement provided by my playful faux foe and look forward to more clever quips for this bountiful source.

Re: The 1960s album poll: number 1

nicolas

nj man I love you but you went too far


evil insidious TheCoon summoned the 4chan spirits... DifferentOneMan's not too blame. Never.

Re: The 1960s album poll: the list

1. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground & Nico - 1967
2. Beach Boys, The - Pet Sounds - 1966
3. Beatles, The - The Beatles (White Album) - 1968
4. Beatles, The - Revolver - 1966
5. Dylan, Bob - Highway 61 Revisited - 1965
6. Beatles, The - Abbey Road - 1969
7. Dylan, Bob - Blonde on Blonde - 1966
8. Zombies, The - Odessey and Oracle - 1968
9. Beatles, The - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - 1967
10. Hendrix, Jimi - Are You Experienced - 1967
11. Love - Forever Changes - 1967
12. Rolling Stones, The - Let It Bleed - 1969
13. Rolling Stones, The - Beggars Banquet - 1968
14. Beatles, The - Rubber Soul - 1965
15. Morrison, Van - Astral Weeks - 1968
16. Kinks, The - The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society - 1968
17. Cohen, Leonard - Songs of Leonard Cohen - 1967
18. Doors, The The Doors - 1967
19. Sly & the Family Stone - Stand! - 1969
20. Hendrix, Jimi - Electric Ladyland - 1968
21. Dylan, Bob - Bringing It All Back Home - 1965
22. Velvet Underground, The - The Velvet Underground - 1969
23. Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme - 1965
24. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II - 1969
25. Drake, Nick - Five Leaves Left - 1969
26. Beatles, The - Magical Mystery Tour - 1967
27. Kinks, The - Something Else by The Kinks - 1967
28. Mingus, Charles - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady - 1963
29. King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King - 1969
30. Young, Neil - Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere - 1969
31. Dylan, Bob - The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan - 1963
32. Who, The - Tommy - 1969
33. Velvet Underground, The - White Light/White Heat - 1968
34. Springfield, Dusty - Dusty in Memphis - 1969
35. Beatles, The - A Hard Day's Night - 1964
36. Redding, Otis - Otis Blue / Otis Redding Sings Soul - 1965
37. Band, The - The Band - 1969
38. Who, The - The Who Sell Out - 1967
39. Simon & Garfunkel - Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme - 1966
40. Byrds, The - The Notorious Byrd Brothers - 1968
41. Mutantes, Os - Os Mutantes - 1968
42. Simone, Nina - Pastel Blues - 1965
43. Millennium, The - Begin - 1968
44. United States of America, The - The United States of America - 1968
45. Simon & Garfunkel - Bookends - 1968
46. Rolling Stones, The - Aftermath - 1966
47. Hendrix, Jimi - Axis: Bold as Love - 1967
48. Pink Floyd - The Piper at the Gates of Dawn - 1967
49. Zappa, Frank/The Mothers of Invention - We're Only in It for the Money - 1968
50. Beatles, The - Help! - 1965
51. Coltrane, John - My Favorite Things - 1961
52. Walker, Scott - Scott 4 - 1969
53. Brown, James - Live' at the Apollo - 1963
54. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin - 1969
55. Byrds, The - Mr. Tambourine Man - 1965
56. Sanders, Pharoah - Karma - 1969
57. Morricone, Ennio - Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo - 1966
58. Davis, Miles - Sketches of Spain - 1960
59. Franklin, Aretha - I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You - 1967
60. Brel, Jacques - Ces gens-là - 1965
61. Monks, The - Black Monk Time - 1966
62. Band, The - Music From Big Pink - 1968
63. Dylan, Bob - John Wesley Harding - 1967
64. Who, The - My Generation - 1965
65. Cash, Johnny - At Folsom Prison - 1968
66. Brassens, Georges - Nº 7 - 1960
67. Coltrane, John - Giant Steps - 1960
68. Brel, Jacques - Jacques Brel - 1962
69. Getz, Stan & Gilberto, Joao - Getz/Gilberto (Featuring Antonio Carlos Jobim) - 1964
70. Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica - 1969
71. Dolphy, Eric - Out to Lunch! - 1964
72. Beach Boys, The - Today! - 1965
73. Brown Jr., Oscar - Sin & Soul - 1960
74. Simon & Garfunkel - Sounds of Silence - 1966
75. Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band - Safe as Milk - 1967
76. 13th Floor Elevators, The - The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators - 1966
77. Jefferson Airplane - Surrealistic Pillow - 1967
78. Dylan, Bob - The Times They Are A-Changin' - 1964
79. Evans, Bill - Sunday at the Village Vanguard - 1961
80. Bland, Bobby - Two Steps from the Blues - 1961
81. Redding, Otis - Complete & Unbelievable: The Otis Redding Dictionary of Soul - 1966
82. Zappa, Frank/The Mothers of Invention - Freak Out! - 1966
83. Kinks, The - Face to Face - 1966
84. Howlin' Wolf - Howlin' Wolf - 1962
85. Beatles, The - With the Beatles - 1963
86. Mamas and the Papas, The - If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears - 1966
87. Sonics, The - Here Are the Sonics!!! - 1965
88. Rolling Stones, The - Out of Our Heads - 1965
89. Hardy, Françoise - Tous les garçons et les filles - 1962
90. Frank, Jackson C. - Jackson C. Frank - 1965
91. Byrds, The - Fifth Dimension - 1966
92. Evans, Bill - Waltz for Debby - 1961
93. Silver, Horace - Song for My Father - 1965
94. Booker T. & the M.G.s - Green Onions - 1962
95. Various - A Christmas Gift for You From Philles Records - 1963
96. Montgomery, Wes - The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery - 1960
97. Original Soundtrack - West Side Story - 1961
98. Charles, Ray - Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music - 1962
99. Dylan, Bob - Another Side of Bob Dylan - 1964
100. Mayall, John - Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton - 1966

Re: The 1960s album poll: the list

When will the songs of the 60's be revealed?

Re: The 1960s album poll: the list

Well, last month I’ve been busy preparing a conference that I finally gave yesterday (it was gladly quite succesful) so I’m ready to begin posting the results. You can expect the first results this weekend.

Re: The 1960s album poll: the list

Honorio
Well, last month I’ve been busy preparing a conference that I finally gave yesterday (it was gladly quite succesful) so I’m ready to begin posting the results. You can expect the first results this weekend.


Can't wait and congrats on your conference. I admit it has been so long since the album results were posted I forgot the song results were still to come.

Re: The 1960s album poll: the correlations

After correcting the correlations (the first ones were calculated from the Top 50 positions and not from the complete Top 100), the new ones appear to be much more benign (or positive if you want), with less red and more green.
As a reminder:
- Overall correlation means the correlation coefficient between a particular voter and the rest of the voters, I will call #1 the one with lower correlation (the "different" one) and #20 the one with the higher (the "normal" one).
- Best friends means the ones with higher particular correlation coefficient, I will name three in ranked order (the first one the one with higher correlation). I will call also the one with lower correlation your "worst foe".
So here we go:

Brad:
Overall correlation: 0.71 (#18)
Best friends: Chris, Honorio, nicolas
Worst foe: Jackson

Charlie Driggs:
Overall correlation: 0.43 (#8 )
Best friends: nj, Harold Wexler, Jackson
Worst foe: Henry

Chris:
Overall correlation: 0.82 (#20)
Best friends: Harold Wexler, Rocky Raccoon, Brad
Worst foe: nj

Georgie:
Overall correlation: 0.38 (#5)
Best friends: Harold Wexler, Rocky Raccoon, Chris
Worst foe: Gillingham

Gillingham:
Overall correlation: 0.19 (the new #1!)
Best friends: Stephan, Charlie Driggs, Henrik
Worst foe: Miguel

Harold Wexler:
Overall correlation: 0.72 (#19)
Best friends: Chris, Rocky Raccoon, Brad/Henry
Worst foe: nj

Henrik:
Overall correlation: 0.50 (#13)
Best friends: Chris, Honorio, nicolas
Worst foe: Mindrocker/nj

Henry:
Overall correlation: 0.49 (#12)
Best friends: Rocky Raccoon, Honorio, Chris
Worst foe: nj

Honorio:
Overall correlation: 0.59 (#16)
Best friends: Brad/Henry/Miguel
Worst foe: nj

Jackson:
Overall correlation: 0.47 (#10)
Best friends: sonofsamiam, nj, Chris/Harold Wexler
Worst foe: Brad/Miguel

John:
Overall correlation: 0.41 (#6)
Best friends: Brad, Listyguy, Honorio
Worst foe: Gillingham

Listyguy:
Overall correlation: 0.43 (#7)
Best friends: Brad/Rocky Raccoon, John
Worst foe: nj

Miguel:
Overall correlation: 0.31 (#3)
Best friends: Honorio, Brad, Henry/John
Worst foe: nj

Mindrocker:
Overall correlation: 0.48 (#11)
Best friends: Rocky Raccoon, Chris, Harold Wexler
Worst foe: Miguel

nicolas:
Overall correlation: 0.60 (#17)
Best friends: Brad, Honorio, Chris
Worst foe: nj

nj:
Overall correlation: 0.22 (#2)
Best friends: sonofsamiam, Charlie Driggs, Jackson
Worst foe: Henry

Rocky Raccoon:
Overall correlation: 0.59 (#15)
Best friends: Chris, Harold Wexler, Henry
Worst foe: nj

Romain:
Overall correlation: 0.34 (#4)
Best friends: Brad, Miguel, Henrik
Worst foe: nj

sonofsamiam:
Overall correlation: 0.46 (#9)
Best friends: nj, Jackson, Chris
Worst foe: Miguel

Stephan:
Overall correlation: 0.51 (#14)
Best friends: Chris, Harold Wexler, Brad/Honorio/nicolas
Worst foe: Romain


Lower individual correlation: nj/Henry (-0.28)
Higher individual correlation: Harold Wexler/Chris (0.75)


So, you see, nj, you are the worst foe of half of the voters. Nothing wrong with that, you know we all love you and that's mainly beacause of your singularity. Don't ever change.

1 2