I'm starting this thread specifically to get the verdict on whether EOD lists from heretofore unfamiliar sources are eligible for addition to the albums spreadsheet. So, here goes:

*Virgin Media

*Salient (New Zealand)

*Ragged Words

I stumbled across Ragged Words myself the other day and was wondering if someone would mention it here. It's a music blog from Ireland, and it looks quite legitimate. Henrik, what about the other two above?

Man, this is difficult. I can't really say that one is more eligible than another, so it's probably easiest to include all three. But I am a little worried about a critics list inflation. And as a result, that the most important sources get less notice than they should.

If we're including Ragged Words, where do we draw the line? There's several other popular music blogs out there, like Pop Tarts Suck Toasted, which also release EOD lists..

I hate to stoke the fire more, but here's another list:

http://www.emusic.com/features/hub/decade_albums/index.html

I can understand it's difficult to decide what to include and what not to include. If I can offer my 2 cents, I think that the purpose of this site is to showcase music that garners critical acclaim. Surely, certainly critics should be weighted more than others, but if it's a critics list that otherwise meets the eligibility standards (more than 1 person contributing, not a blog, etc.), I don't see why it shouldn't be included.

It's going to be an almighty effort for those compiling the list around about now, but that's the unfortunate side-effect of both peaked interest in EOD lists and the proliferation of online publications.

It's gonna be a workload, sure, but I don't see why these lists - obviously coming from pre-existing publications and not just a randomer's personal countdown on their blog or last.fm and whatnot - shouldn't merit inclusion?

I always look at the "About" page to see what kind of and how many writers each website have. I couldn't find such a page for Ragged Words, but there is a difference between Ragged Words and Pop Tarts Suck Toasted, isn't it? One is a webzine and the other is a single writer's blog?

My two cents:

When it comes to printed media it's easy: they have a certain circulation and therefore they should be included.

When it comes to fanzines and the web, I would argue that they normally should NOT be included. In order to make an exception, there should be info that they have a certain readership.

I've been giving this some thought, and here's what I've decided:

* I'm going to go to the album pages for last year's top 5 albums - THIRD, FLEET FOXES, DEAR SCIENCE, FOR EMMA FOREVER AGO, and VAMPIRE WEEKEND - and make a master list of all the publications, print or online, listed there. Since all of these have already been declared worthy of inclusion at AM, obviously any EOD lists from those sources would be eligible for the spreadsheet.

* Lists from other sites would have to be adjudicated, so to speak, on a case-by-case basis, but those will be low priority for two reasons: a) I'll have more than enough work from all the sources referenced above, and b) Henrik is about to be somewhat taxed and isn't going to have a lot of time for this.

* Updates to the spreadsheet are probably going to be a bit less immediate and a bit less frequent, although I'll try not to let it go for too long and I will probably make exceptions for the "big" lists like ROLLING STONE (to be announced Dec. 11, I've learned), SPIN, MOJO and Q.

Henrik, let me know what you think about this. And, if you think I should go ahead and enter any or all of the three lists that started this thread, let me know. Thanks!

What criteria could be used to gather this kind of information? Alexa traffic rank? Here is the rank for the online sources already included in the spreadsheet.

traffic rank / sites linking in

Pitchfork 2,714 / 1,662
Complex 8,094 / 1,878
The Onion AV Club 8,181 / 3,680
Paste 12,512 / 2,153
Gigwise 28,600 / 1,542
Consequence of Sound 61,617 / 361
Betterpropaganda 107,166 / 501
Muzikalia 203,895 / 385
Mondosonoro 223,593 / 411
Playground 289,958 / 132
Kalporz 684,621 / 133
Lostatsea 775,518 / 177
Fishpork 3,943,297 / 7
I'm afraid that Fishpork has got to be removed. I also just saw that the site is run by only two music enthusiasts.

The new lists:

Virgin Media 855 / 2,052
eMusic 1,820 / 6,610
Salient 611,241 / 106
Ragged Words 2,663,877 / 22

So, Ragged Words probably doesn't have enough readers to be included. Salient's figures are not so strong either, especially considering that it's not a music specialized magazine. Virgin Media is also a lot of other things than music criticism, but they do have album reviews so I think this list should be included. eMusic has been included in the past, and I definitely think that their EOD list should be included as well when they have presented their top 10.

For comparison, here are the Alexa figures for Acclaimed Music:
457,837 / 188

Metromix Denver is a local Metromix entertainment guide. A full list of Metromix local guides can be found at http://www.metromix.com/pick_your_city

I'm hesitant to include this list, because what if every local guide publish their EOD list?

There are no Alexa stats for Metromix.com or denver.metromix.com, as they both fall under chicagotribune.com

I,ve never heard of Ragged Words, so I'm guessing its not that popular or else quite a new site.

Henrik, I used to work for Gulf Coast Metromix, and I can tell you it's a completely legitimate business with a staff etc.

That said, I see your concern given the # of metromixes...maybe we could aggregate the metromixes on a spreadsheet if need be and count it as one rating?

I'll delete the Fishpork column the next time I update the spreadsheet. This means you'll have to delete the Fishpork lists already on the database, too, right?

So, yea on eMusic, Virgin Media (I'm going to assume that top 20 isn't ranked, although it isn't alphabetized either), and of course the Times. I won't add the others for now.

I agree with this. No Fishpork, Salient or Ragged Words. I would also say no Kalporz or LostatSea, since they have very weak numbers, too. You have to draw the line somewhere. But I also agree with whoever said that if there's a print publication along with the online content, it should be included.

Right.

Sounds fine with me, Jonathon. However, I would only in an extreme case combine lists from entirely different critics into one. Harold, are you OK with including the Denver Metromix list?

Sure. By the way, I included LostAtSea and Kalporz because EOY's from those sites have been included here before - this is why I'm going to use prior inclusion as a baseline for the spreadsheet.

Perhaps there are other doubtful sources than Fishpork that I have included in the past. If anyone wants to look up Alexa stats for any other critics lists, they can be posted in this thread.

I'm sorry if this sounds like a hunting game. I just want the same rule to apply across the whole AM.

Kalporz and Lostatsea's stats are (just) OK. I don't want to exclude them.

In my opinion, Henrik should seriously consider whether to include lists of sites that nobody knows.

I have experienced muzicalia, Jenesaispop, mondosonro, rockdelux, go-mag. I know what it is No one can explain what those websites, if they are true list of criticisms of music or are a group of fans?

Rune has posted an EOD top 50 from the Norwegian site Dagsavisen. I haven't seen that site listed here before - eligible?

Harold, there are several lists from Dagsavisen on AM.

Thanks. I didn't see an EOY for 2008 (unless it somehow omitted all the top albums), so I was just wondering.

Harold, I will create a list of all AM's non-individual sources. Well, I will probably limit down to those that have contributed during the 2000s.

Thanks!

I want to thank everyone on the forum for being so great about posting new lists - not just the fact of their existence, but the lists themselves. It saves a lot of time. That said, once Henrik creates this source list - and I have a large enough chunk of time on my hands, like when I have my holiday break from work - I definitely plan to check up on sites that no one's posted about yet to see whether they have EOD's.

Top13.com and Irish Times - yea or nay?

top13 no, Irish Times yes. That's my opinion.

Kind of what I was figuring. Thanks!

We had decided already to include those mega-lists from both Paste and Rock's Back Pages, right?

Well yes, but I think we should update the RBP list when they have presented their final list based on their contributors' votes.

Yes, I remembered this after I posted. I think I'll just wait on RBP until that final list is presented. I'll enter the expanded Paste list when I have time.

I'm assuming these are all eligible but wanted to make sure:

* Newsweek top 10 (maybe minus the classical recording)

* Vice top 10 (although the commentary is snarky)

* NOW (Canada) top 10

* Daily Mail

Henrik?

* Newsweek top 10 (maybe minus the classical recording)
Probably no (seems to be by Seth Colter Walls only)

* Vice top 10 (although the commentary is snarky)
Probably yes (assuming that "experts" and "we" is right and "Gavin Haynes" is wrong.

* NOW (Canada) top 10
Yes

* Daily Mail
Probably no (seems to be by Adrian Thrills only)

Hi,

first two choices are very tricky IMO. There is also discussion on Newsweek under We choose top 10, do you agree? And what is Vice anyway, is that anything wide known akin to the Newsweeks name?

VICE is an aggressive young-male oriented culture and lifestyle magazine - not a "lad mag" like MAXIM, but one that actively makes fun of the kind of guys who buy those mags. Everything VICE does is drenched in layers of hip irony and attitude, and in a lot of ways they're just as irritating as the folks they mock.

Oh thanks then! That description in first sentence is really turning me off
Anyway do as you please. Its rather difficult to see through what is the choice of given mag and whats just one mans opinion, isnt it?