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Iguana...

I went to the rocklist site- are you concluding that it'sa one-person list because of that e-mail contact that's shown for some of the lists? I wouldn't know, why I'm inquiring.

And I figured out that you didn't remove the Iguana songs citations because songs weren't updated at this moment (which I already knew, but didn't put two-and-two together. ha)

Re: The update

All I can say is that I am so grateful for this website. The jolt provided by this update is indeed great! I'll be sure to get the RYM links to you soon, Henrik.

Re: The update

Many many thanks to Henrik !

From now on I'll use the new top 3000 for comparisons in my AMF top 200 albums countdown !

Re: The update

Yeah, the 2000s' very top albums will be steady, but I can't wait for the huge jumps and drops in the 30-100 range. There will be many, I'm hoping, and expecting.

As for the new all-time rankings, I'm so glad Oasis is dropping. This trend will no doubt continue with future updates. The world is slowly righting itself. The economy will be fixed, and Oasis' albums will be out of the top 200.

Re: The update

Sean Pak
Yeah, the 2000s' very top albums will be steady, but I can't wait for the huge jumps and drops in the 30-100 range. There will be many, I'm hoping, and expecting.

As for the new all-time rankings, I'm so glad Oasis is dropping. This trend will no doubt continue with future updates. The world is slowly righting itself. The economy will be fixed, and Oasis' albums will be out of the top 200.


Re: The update

Thanks a lot Henrik,

Seems like there had been a lot of French lists in the new update to help that many French albums reach the top 3000. I'm stunned that Tostaky is the highest entry, but really it is probably the most important French rock album of the past 30 years.

Glad to see some of my top 100 albums in the entry list (Yoyoyoyo, OK Cowboy and the Shape of Punk to Come deserved more acclaimed) but at the same time one of my top10 is out (In Case We die).

And of course, glad to see Either/Or reach at last the top 500 (and Elliott Smith the top 200), even though I was expected is self titled album to crack the AM3000.

Re: The update

Veneno, Joan Manule Serrat, Pata Negra, Camarón, Vainica Doble, Gabinet Caligari, Alaska y los Pegamoides, Alaska y Dinarama, Sisa, Radio Futura.


Spain has never managed to export their rock music. These great records have come into AM through lists of Spanish music magazines. It is a selection that reflects well the best thing that has made the Spanish pop-rock for the past 40 years.

Until recently, the only representation of Spanish music was Macarena: it's a horrible song.

Now everything is fine.

Thanks to Henrik: your idea to accept national music charts, entering among the best, these fantastic records.

Re: The update

Henrik, you’re awesome!

Obviously, it’s of major interest how releases of the last decade or so are doing. Some stuff happening with old favourites too, though:

Good to finally see what is easily Bob Dylan’s best album between 1976 and 1989 (possibly between 1976 and 1997!) enter the list.
And Graham Parker’s “Mona Lisa’s Sister” deserves to be there. Green on Red’s “Snakes” too.

And good old Lonnie Mack enters AM (for the first time?) ... ! Whooee!

Sad to say goodbye to two fine Neil Young albums, though. – And Grant Lee Buffalo’s “Mighty Joe Moon” leves too ... what the ...???

And T-Bone Burnett and Slade are now bubbling-under only, abum-wise. I’ll keep my copy of "Proof Through the Night", though ...

Fantastic work, Henrik. I hope somebody’s really paying you well for your day job!

Re: The update

ChrisF
Henrik,
Just curious...why do the update now rather than wait for EOD and EOY lists that might come out after the end of the year?
Mostly because I don't know how possible it will be for me to update the site again next year, as we will have our second baby in the beginning of January. But also because you (and I, not least) have been waiting so long.

Re: The update

Just a note on the list of albums that have fallen out of the top 3000: as I noted in a previous thread prior to the update, Sonny Rollins' NIGHT AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD, VOL. 2 has been removed from the database entirely, almost certainly because the two volumes are never considered separately anymore (particularly since the combined CD reissue).

Re: The update

Henrik
ChrisF
Henrik,
Just curious...why do the update now rather than wait for EOD and EOY lists that might come out after the end of the year?
Mostly because I don't know how possible it will be for me to update the site again next year, as we will have our second baby in the beginning of January. But also because you (and I, not least) have been waiting so long.


I figured as much after I wrote that. Thanks for the site and for all your work Henrik and congrats on the baby!

Re: The update

Sean Pak
As for the new all-time rankings, I'm so glad Oasis is dropping. This trend will no doubt continue with future updates. The world is slowly righting itself. The economy will be fixed, and Oasis' albums will be out of the top 200.

I totally agree .

Re: The update

Sean Pak


As for the new all-time rankings, I'm so glad Oasis is dropping. This trend will no doubt continue with future updates. The world is slowly righting itself. The economy will be fixed, and Oasis' albums will be out of the top 200.


I agree. The British press likes to sabotage their own heroes by overhyping them. "OASIS IS THE NEW BEATLES!" (They immediately stop producing hits). It's the same thing they did to Tim Henman. And The Strokes, and Coldplay.

The album I'm saddest to see vanish from the top 3000 is Crazy Ex Girlfriend. Critics ignore it cause it's country, especially outside the US. The only site I've ever seen give it props is Popmatters.

Has anyone gone through and looked for greatest gainers? I know Comme a la Radio went up like 1500 points.

Re: The update

BillAdama
Sean Pak


As for the new all-time rankings, I'm so glad Oasis is dropping. This trend will no doubt continue with future updates. The world is slowly righting itself. The economy will be fixed, and Oasis' albums will be out of the top 200.


I agree. The British press likes to sabotage their own heroes by overhyping them. "OASIS IS THE NEW BEATLES!" (They immediately stop producing hits). It's the same thing they did to Tim Henman. And The Strokes, and Coldplay.

The album I'm saddest to see vanish from the top 3000 is Crazy Ex Girlfriend. Critics ignore it cause it's country, especially outside the US. The only site I've ever seen give it props is Popmatters.

Has anyone gone through and looked for greatest gainers? I know Comme a la Radio went up like 1500 points.
Sorry if you know this already, but to "go through and look" for these things all you need to do is to re-sort the spreadsheet that is available from the AM home page. The top 20 climbers:

Miossec - Boire (climbed 1493 places - from 2811 to 1318)
Brigitte Fontaine & Art Ensemble of Chicago - Comme à la Radio (climbed 1353 places - from 2902 to 1549)
Kraftwerk - Radio-aktivität (climbed 1270 places - from 2450 to 1180)
Milton Nascimento & Lo Borges - Clube da esquina (climbed 1247 places - from 2392 to 1145)
Justin Timberlake - FutureSex/LoveSounds (climbed 1221 places - from 2199 to 978)
Mano Negra - Puta's Fever (climbed 1205 places - from 2388 to 1183)
Chico Buarque - Construcao (climbed 1180 places - from 2693 to 1513)
J Dilla aka Jay Dee - Donuts (climbed 1171 places - from 2183 to 1012)
Rufus Wainwright - Want One (climbed 1152 places - from 2233 to 1081)
Diana Ross - Diana (climbed 1037 places - from 2195 to 1158)
Einstürzende Neubauten - Kollaps (climbed 1018 places - from 2177 to 1159)
The National - Alligator (climbed 1018 places - from 2296 to 1278)
Propellerheads - Decksandrumsandrockandroll (climbed 953 places - from 2843 to 1890)
Kevin Ayers - Joy of a Toy (climbed 919 places - from 2554 to 1635)
Elton John - Elton John (climbed 917 places - from 2981 to 2064)
The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion - ACME (climbed 909 places - from 2883 to 1974)
Mogwai - Rock Action (climbed 898 places - from 2441 to 1543)
2 Many DJs - As Heard on Radio Soulwax Pt. 2 (climbed 896 places - from 2739 to 1843)
Death Cab for Cutie - Transatlanticism (climbed 856 places - from 1821 to 965)
Le Tigre - Le Tigre (climbed 849 places - from 2617 to 1768)

Re: The update

Other results I'm very happy about (Stuff I put in my top 200):

Tool - Aenima 1235-782
Os Mutantes - Os Mutantes 1095-799

And, the highest percentage gain:
Daft Punk - Discovery 1327-547 (58.8%)

Also in terms of percentage gain, Silent Shout comes in fourth behind Moissec and J Dilla.

The big winners seem to be France and Spain, judging by your gainer list, and the fact that Serge Gainsbourg was the highest entry into the top 500.

Re: The update

"As for the new all-time rankings, I'm so glad Oasis is dropping. This trend will no doubt continue with future updates. The world is slowly righting itself. The economy will be fixed, and Oasis' albums will be out of the top 200".[/quote]

The world is doing a half-arsed job of righting itself if Be Here Now has forced its flabby, cocaine addled carcass into the top 3000 albums.

Re: The update

The rise of Alligator has put a big smile on my face

Re: The update

Aw sweet, an update! I wasn't expecting one of these any time soon, this is great! Thank you so much, Henrik!

-brian

Thank you, sir...

the update is much appreciated- satill taking it in. :)

Question: Were the Iguana albums lists removed from the site? I was just adding the new info for Madge in my records, and noticed the Iguana citations are not on the site for Ray of Light (No. 46), Music (No. 78) and Confessions on a Dance Floor (No. 67). Thanks, bud. :)

And...

thanks to all others for their work.

There were some lists I wasn't even aware of, and i try to keep track of these. hehe (like some newly added ones from France, like the FNAC one)

Couple Other Questions...

1. RE lists that didn't have an order- why are some credited with a "1" ranking, whereas others have the regular "No Order" credit?

2. RE Le Guide du CD (France)- I take it that select albums from an act were included in this feature, and not an act's entire discography?

Thanks. :)

Re: Thank you, sir...

JR
the update is much appreciated- satill taking it in. :)

Question: Were the Iguana albums lists removed from the site? I was just adding the new info for Madge in my records, and noticed the Iguana citations are not on the site for Ray of Light (No. 46), Music (No. 78) and Confessions on a Dance Floor (No. 67). Thanks, bud. :)
I discovered that the Iguana lists are from one person only, and I don't include any EOY lists from single critics.

Re: Couple Other Questions...

JR
1. RE lists that didn't have an order- why are some credited with a "1" ranking, whereas others have the regular "No Order" credit?

2. RE Le Guide du CD (France)- I take it that select albums from an act were included in this feature, and not an act's entire discography?

Thanks. :)
They should have "No Order". Which ones have a "1"?

Le Guide has incomplete discographys. I don't know why.

Re: Iguana...

JR
I went to the rocklist site- are you concluding that it'sa one-person list because of that e-mail contact that's shown for some of the lists? I wouldn't know, why I'm inquiring.
I got the information from another website.

JR
And I figured out that you didn't remove the Iguana songs citations because songs weren't updated at this moment (which I already knew, but didn't put two-and-two together. ha)
Exactly.

Re: The update

Henrik
is here.


Qouting Blur: Whoah!

Re: The update

What a feast!!! and feat!!! Simply superb!!! Thanx Henrik!!!

Re: The update

I, like a few others, am very, very glad that many of the new additions have been foreign music. It adds so much flavor to AM. The way I see it, on most movie lists and list aggregation sites like TSP, foreign films are a normal occurence among the top 200 and above. But with music, this has been sorely (though understandably, since it's hard to have "subtitles" for albums) lacking. Man I love this site.

Robert Christgau...

Henrik, do you still include his ratings for albums? I.e., he gave Confessions on a Dance Floor a B+, but it's not included with the album's information. (probably are other acts' albums, as well, that he rated).

Re: The update

Pete Evans
below even the likes of Lou Reed, Roxy Music and Kraftwerk for gawds sake !


As they should be.

Re: The update

Sorry Henrik for not replying earlier (problems with my internet connection plus lack of time) but let me add my congratulations for the update. I wish you could have seen the smile on my face when I read so many French, Brazilian, Spanish, German and African albums on the Top 3000. Finally justice was made. The main bias of this site (and of any list) was the language and thanks to the new lists this has been fully corrected (maybe Asia is still the unknown continent but we'll see).
Now I'm happy. Henrik, thanks a lot. And many thanks to the Magnificent Seven (because there were seven collaborators, isn't it?).
Hopefully tomorrow my connection will be fixed.

Re: The update

I have been a big Steely Dan fan since 1971. In terms of composition, lyrics, fusion, and instrumental achievement, Steely Dan is fantastic. Some of their more recent albums have not been as impressive for me. But, their work in the 70's was consistently excellent (with the possible exception of some tracks on the Royal Scam album - IMO)

But, there are at least two factors (IMO) that limit the breadth of Steely Dan's acclaim:

1) Fagan's (somewhat nasally) vocals are off-putting to many listeners,
2) the percussion on most Steely Dan songs is nothing special.

Re: The update

Honorio
Sorry Henrik for not replying earlier (problems with my internet connection plus lack of time) but let me add my congratulations for the update. I wish you could have seen the smile on my face when I read so many French, Brazilian, Spanish, German and African albums on the Top 3000. Finally justice was made. The main bias of this site (and of any list) was the language and thanks to the new lists this has been fully corrected (maybe Asia is still the unknown continent but we'll see).
Now I'm happy. Henrik, thanks a lot. And many thanks to the Magnificent Seven (because there were seven collaborators, isn't it?).
Hopefully tomorrow my connection will be fixed.
I can surely imagine your smile when you saw the Spanish albums entering the top 3000! And I couldn't agree more with you about the corrected bias.

It might seem like the non-English language albums are too high if you look at the number of critics lists appearances. This is because these critics lists are weighted highly compared to critics lists from other countries, where the critics might not be familiar with the language. Note however that for example Dungen's "Ta det lugnt" is probably less acclaimed outside Sweden than in other countries, so this weight distribution is not always to the advantage for non-English language albums.

Re: The update

Henry
the percussion on most Steely Dan songs is nothing special.
Really? I'm not an expert on this, as I don't play any instrument myself so I mostly enjoy music without thinking very much about what instruments I hear. However, at least Aja (the album) oozes of superb laidback (but complex) rhythms and Aja (the song) has one of my favorite drum solos ever.

Re: The update

Thanks for politely calling me out and pointing out where my criticism missed the point. I am confident that there are at least another 6 exceptions to the percussion critique. But, compared to the guitar and horn riffs on some of Steely Dan's songs, I generally find the percussion relatively tame.

Do you find their more recent work as interesting as what they were doing in the 1970's?

Re: The update

Henrik, not sure if you saw my inquiry RE Robert Christgau's ratings, a few posts up. Just mentioning it again in case you did. :)

Re: The update

Moonbeam, there's no accounting for taste. You've either got it or you haven't ! Steely Dan are the connoisseurs band, the public probably including you, just don't wanna hear anything that aint straightforward rock n roll. Many critics also have it in for the Dan because they are too clever for them and they simply blow everyone else away musically and lyrically. The public generally have no taste whatsoever, hence crap like the X Factor. A classic example of this is that 10 years ago every critic and most of the public were acclaiming Oasis as one of the all time greats. Finally, 10 years later the public tumble to what anyone who knew at the time could have told them. They are overblown and its all about image and self promotion, as with most of the bands towards the top end of the Acclaimed Music top 100 list. Thats why you end up with results like this. The Police better than Steely Dan, dream on !!

Re: The update

Henry
Thanks for politely calling me out and pointing out where my criticism missed the point. I am confident that there are at least another 6 exceptions to the percussion critique. But, compared to the guitar and horn riffs on some of Steely Dan's songs, I generally find the percussion relatively tame.

Do you find their more recent work as interesting as what they were doing in the 1970's?
If relative is the key word in your sentence then we agree. I don't think their new material is as good as their '70s output. However, if it was on the same level that would be astonishing.

Re: The update

Pete Evans
Moonbeam, there's no accounting for taste. You've either got it or you haven't ! Steely Dan are the connoisseurs band, the public probably including you, just don't wanna hear anything that aint straightforward rock n roll. Many critics also have it in for the Dan because they are too clever for them and they simply blow everyone else away musically and lyrically. The public generally have no taste whatsoever, hence crap like the X Factor. A classic example of this is that 10 years ago every critic and most of the public were acclaiming Oasis as one of the all time greats. Finally, 10 years later the public tumble to what anyone who knew at the time could have told them. They are overblown and its all about image and self promotion, as with most of the bands towards the top end of the Acclaimed Music top 100 list. Thats why you end up with results like this. The Police better than Steely Dan, dream on !!
The problem is not that people don't want to listen to Steely Dan, but that you don't want to listen to anything else.

Re: The update

JR
Henrik, not sure if you saw my inquiry RE Robert Christgau's ratings, a few posts up. Just mentioning it again in case you did. :)
Thanks for reminding me. All his ratings should be included, so I will look over it before the next update.

Re: The update

Pete Evans
Moonbeam, there's no accounting for taste. You've either got it or you haven't ! Steely Dan are the connoisseurs band, the public probably including you, just don't wanna hear anything that aint straightforward rock n roll. Many critics also have it in for the Dan because they are too clever for them and they simply blow everyone else away musically and lyrically. The public generally have no taste whatsoever, hence crap like the X Factor. A classic example of this is that 10 years ago every critic and most of the public were acclaiming Oasis as one of the all time greats. Finally, 10 years later the public tumble to what anyone who knew at the time could have told them. They are overblown and its all about image and self promotion, as with most of the bands towards the top end of the Acclaimed Music top 100 list. Thats why you end up with results like this. The Police better than Steely Dan, dream on !!


If you knew anything about my taste, you'd see how funny your rant is!

I've never claimed that my taste was superior to anyone else's. I know it suits me just fine, though! I've got no qualms with Steely Dan, but I quite like those 3 artists you scoffed for placing higher better- a lot better. Roxy Music, Lou Reed and Kraftwerk are all among my top 30 artists.

Re: The update

Pete Evans
you just don't wanna hear anything that aint straightforward rock n roll.


Since when are Lou Reed, Roxy Music, and Kraftwerk straight-forward rock and roll?

It's a little obnoxious that you consider yoursef a "connoisseur" and berate the members of this forum. There are some people here who have listened to thousands of acclaimed music albums.

Re: The update

Music is not a math test. There is no right or wrong answer. Therefore it makes no sense to complain that music critics generally like Lou Reed/Roxy Music better than Steely Dan.

If I might venture a guess as to why Steely Dan is not more acclaimed, I would think it's because technical proficiency and thoughtful lyrics are not everyone's cuppa tea. Some of us like our music messier.

Re: The update

I agree with you - it serves little purpose to complain about critics and others who have different tastes than our own. What could be of use is to expand our understanding by striving to understand the bases for tastes that differ from our own. Your explanation may help accomplish that. Thanks.

Re: The update

Pete Evans: You speak to moonbeam as if he has an inferior taste than yours and that he is wrong in his music tastes and you are right. This is unfair. You seem to be accusing moonbeam (more this website on a whole) of being wrong because it does not represent your tastes. There is no correct taste in music that one must conform to and I doubt that anyone on this forum feels that way. It would take any entertainment out of listening to or disscussing music if everyone's tastes in music could be deemed as simply good or bad. I do not believe this website is meant to say that this is what the critics say is good, it is right this band is superior to this band and anyone who disagrees is wrong. No this website is meant to provide a general guide to what music critics on average feel to be the best, for better or for worst. One of my favourite bands Joe Strummer & the mescalaroes is barely represented on the top 3000 (their only represented album is bubbling under). If critics or someone does not agree with me that does not have a better or worse taste, it is simply different. if you disagree with the list dont become angry at the website, write some angry letters about steeley dan towards magazines and websites who make the lists incorporated into this website (spin pitchfork rolling stone NME). the only great crime is not being open to or willing to try new music that differs from ones own tastes.

Re: The update

Is there any chance that you are just yanking our collective chain?

Re: The update

Henrik
Pete Evans
Moonbeam, there's no accounting for taste. You've either got it or you haven't ! Steely Dan are the connoisseurs band, the public probably including you, just don't wanna hear anything that aint straightforward rock n roll. Many critics also have it in for the Dan because they are too clever for them and they simply blow everyone else away musically and lyrically. The public generally have no taste whatsoever, hence crap like the X Factor. A classic example of this is that 10 years ago every critic and most of the public were acclaiming Oasis as one of the all time greats. Finally, 10 years later the public tumble to what anyone who knew at the time could have told them. They are overblown and its all about image and self promotion, as with most of the bands towards the top end of the Acclaimed Music top 100 list. Thats why you end up with results like this. The Police better than Steely Dan, dream on !!
The problem is not that people don't want to listen to Steely Dan, but that you don't want to listen to anything else.


this.

Re: The update

Pete Evans
They simply blow everyone else away musically and lyrically.


He had me up until this quote. How could this not be a joke, or at the very least an exaggeration?

Re: The update

Henry
Is there any chance that you are just yanking our collective chain?


oh...oops, when I wrote that neither of the 2 previous posts had apeared as far as I can remember, if I had seen them I would not have left my babbling paragraph...oh well

Re: The update

Steely Dan is amazing. Probably in my top 40 artists of all time. Definitely like them more than the Police (Who I find massively overrated)...but not sure about Roxy Music and Kraftwerk.

Re: The update

Jackson. Of course they blow everyone else away musically and lyrically. That's why Steely Dan are amongst the all time great songwriters ! As for this whole web site, wonderfully done though it is, it is based on votes for albums, not artists. The Sex pistols are in the top echelons on the strength of one album. Surely this cannot be fair. Steely Dan are widely regarded as a better group than the Sex Pistols the world over ( certainly by musicians and critics ) yet because of one desperately overrated album the Pistols are thought of as a better group according to this site. Never ! Or is it also because of their image and advertising, which often accounts for the votes of 90% of the public as surely any intelligent person knows. I have asked this question before but why don't you simply add up the points scored by each album, e.g. 1st = 3000 2nd = 2999, etc, etc, and rank the artists that way ? This is surely the fairest way of doing this site. I have been told before that more whoever voted for one sex pistols album than all the Dan albums but that is not the point. If it was just about votes for albums then there should be no artists list. Why should votes for albums decide where an artist should be in the list ? If so then it should be on points accumulated. If all the publications journalists and muicians were asked who was the best artist and not what was your favourite album then I am sure Steely Dan would finsih much higher as they deserve to. I would also be interested to knew where the Dan would stand if the votes for Donald Fagen's Nightfly album were added to the Steely Dan total. The Nightfly is, after all, to all intents and purposes a Steely Dan album. Finally, I apologise if I came across criticising anoynes's taste, it was meant as a humorous remark. Everyone is entitled to listen and have their own favourites. No offence guys.

Since The Site Is...

a compilation of album and songs critical features, that's how the top artists are compiled. In any event, how has Steely Dan fared on best-artists-type lists? The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2001 (three years after first becoming eligible).

In any event, Pete- you're acting like Steely dan fares poorly via AM's methodology- ranking in the 60s is pretty darn good.

wtf?

Out of the top 3000-'The Great Eastern', 'Spine Of God' and 'Transmissions From The Sattelite Heart'.
Into the top 3000-'Be Here Now', 'One Hot Minute' and 'K'.
History is bunk.

Re: Since The Site Is...

JR
a compilation of album and songs critical features, that's how the top artists are compiled. In any event, how has Steely Dan fared on best-artists-type lists? The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2001 (three years after first becoming eligible).

In any event, Pete- you're acting like Steely dan fares poorly via AM's methodology- ranking in the 60s is pretty darn good.


Not to mention that if you're like me and think songs should get a lot less weight than albums, Steely Dan comes out #46 of all time on the album list.

Anyone who comes out in the top 100 is a legend to me (though I find AM's effectiveness is mostly from 1965-present...thus this doesn't account for EVERY legend in music history, but I'd say the vast majority of the ones from the past 45-50 years.)