Can anyone help to ID this 1938 Norton 16H please.
Someone has started to paint it army green. Is this a genuine military bike or civilian?
It has a UK registration number which has been on the bike since 1938.
The Frame No. is 91454
The Engine No. is 86129
If military, what contract would it have been for?
What do you think it is currently worth as is? Missing parts include rear stand, speedo and rear light.

Thanks

email (option): nljb345@hotmail.com

Nathan, like I said earlier today, all things indicate a civilian bike, certainly the engine and the forks, numbers also not in the military range, big gap there.

My 2p.

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi**.net

I can't see 86129 in the copies of the factory records that I have, but engines numbered 86125, 86127 and 86128 were all fitted to civilian 16Hs delivered in the first week of April 1938. No British military 16Hs had the 1938 pattern engine, as per this one and the frame doesn't look like the high ground clearance military type.

He also asked; what is it worth ?
Anybody ?

He announced on an FB group that he bought it at auction the same day, so he has effectively set the value.

The bike was advertised at auction as an Ex WD 16H. The person who won the auction told the auctioneer they bid by mistake and retracted their bid, so therefore it was offered to me as I was the underbidder. I wanted to know if I would be getting a good deal. Since finding out it was a civilian bike, I turned it down as ideally I want a genuine WD16H. Thanks for replies.

email (option): nljb345@hotmail.com

Blowing up the original picture I think it is actually a Big4 engine.
It definitly is a 1938 civilian model frame.

Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

It makes me wonder about this fantasy about original objects. More so when they are a collection of parts.
You'll never get period air from the correct location!
Numbers, markings and other defects can all be replicated.
There is a pattern maker near me that specialises in that sort of thing.
I've even seen the photos of some very expensive vehicles that have faked parts
I know some people only draw breath in the hope of owning a certain thing.
What is wrong in trying to replicate a "period" look and admit to the rusty heap that inspired you?
Then there is badge engineering. Mahindra BSA, surly not! Though it seems good value for money.
Might even be cheaper with it's real name?

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

I guess it's just down to the individual...Personally I would want a military bike that is/was a military bike and therefore was originally built under a War Department or MOD contract...
The Royal Enfield airbourne 'tribute' bike for example just doesn't cut it IMO...After all, it doesn't matter how good a plastic jacket is it will never be a leather jacket....
Modern 'retro' bikes such as that and other machines stretch that term to the limit generally and are really there to satisfy a completely different market and users..

Regarding the originality or otherwise of a restored bike, that is a debate that will fuel discussions at club nights and on forums like this ad infinitum....The only comment I would make is that most restored bikes would still be off the road if the criteria was to use only original parts in every instance...
The fact many restored machines are not constructed from original parts and some models have very few in many cases (Gold Star for example) is ignored by most to preserve the credibility of the 'classic' market and therefore the values attributed to the bikes and to that extent it is a rather odd fantasy world...
However, how many would rebuild these bikes if they weren't worth anything at the end of the process and would there be any 'industry' supplying the necessary goods and services to carry out the work?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

email (option): welbike@welbi**.net

Mark, pre-war civilian Nortons have a different frame from the WD type, both in terms of ground clearance and lugs and the 1938 pattern engine differs from the 1936 WD type in almost everything except piston and cylinder head.

It's not about "originality", but suggesting they are similar is a bit like comparing an M24 to an M20. Similar looking frame and timing cover after all ! :grinning:

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

I attended the auction. That's a rare bike. Brit prices were well down, except for the Panthers.....

email (option): jeremy@clogmaker.co.uk