Hi All,

I have been reliably informed that you may be able to help me identify the original Frame number for my bike after it was Overhauled.

I have this Frame and Engine number along with a Brass Tag

Frame: 25CW84/55
Engine: WM2094367
Vehicle Number: 64YD66

Sorry it’s not allowing me to post pictures

Thanks

Please send the pictures to me. I'll post them here together with some history.

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Piers has sent me these pictures:

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

This is an interesting case! The BSA with "frame number" WM20.94367 and identical "duplicated frame number” on the engine was made under military contract S/1048. This was a contract for 15.000 bikes (frame numbers WM20.81818 - WM20.96817). The census number (on the tank) would have been C5127767. Unfortunately the factory ledgers for this contract have been lost, but from the receipt cards we know that the production of this contract started in early June 1943, at 2.000 bikes per month. Which means that WM20.94367 must have left the factory in (approximately) December 1943. As with 99.99% of the WD bikes, it is impossible to find out in which unit it served.

But we also know that this bike went through a “major rebuild”, most probably due to a broken frame, as the current frame number (25CW84/55) is not an original BSA number. However, it does follow the typical spare frame numbering sequence, in which 25CW probably denotes "25 Command Workshop". Because of this major rebuild, the bike also received a new census number: C1422451. This C14xxxxx number comes from a block for “rebuilt motorcycles”.

When the war was over, the bike with frame number 25CW84/55 and engine number (or actually duplicated frame number) WM20.94367 saw further service in the post war British Army (BAOR), as the frame is listed in the post war KeyCards (card number 324a). In the late 1940s the war time census numbers were replaced by a new post war registration number (or ERM number), and the KeyCard confirms your ERM number 64YD66.

The brass Ministry of Supply plate shows that the bike was overhauled in August 1952, at the Motor Transport Repair Shop B266.

It also gives a regiment and a February 1968 date, when the bike was deposed of. You can obtain a hi-res scan of this KeyCard from Lex, who’s also a forum member.

Interesting fact: frame numbers WM20.94366 and WM20.94368 are also in the KeyCards, while WM20.94367 isn’t (because it was replaced by the spare frame with number 25CW84/55).

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

A few pictures: your original census number C5127767 sits just in between these two bikes (both used during the Liberation of the Netherlands):

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

And this is another example of a “major rebuild” bike (also during the Liberation of the Netherlands):

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

And a last one: two post war registered BSAs with "close (YD) numbers":

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Is it possible that there is evidence of two rebuilds in this case, the frame number ends "55" which I had wondered could be 1955, but the brass rebuild plate stamped 1952 would seem to disprove this, however the rebuild serial "C1422451" predates the change from the tank mounted serial to the later "64YD66" registration, could that have been as late as 1952?

There is wartime literature which states that all "B" vehicles should be rebuilt after 3 years and a new census number issued (motorcycles starting C14...), but we know this didn't always happen.

Plus some of the "frame" numbers in the post war key cards are almost definitly taken from the engine just to muddy the waters further.

Certainly an interesting machine.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11@yahoo.co.uk

Another clue... The oval stamp on Piers' engine looks like a "JLO" stamp (as in the second picture), which would mean that the engine was rebuilt in the JLO factory "shortly" after the war. Can you confirm that it is a JLO stamp Piers?

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Below is one of a series of photos taken at the JLO factory....Shelves full of M20 engines!....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Piers has sent me a slightly better picture of the JLO logo (or at least that's what I thought it was):



There is no doubt about it anymore, this is a double (or even triple) stamped JLO logo, meaning that the engine was rebuilt in No. 10 REME Auxiliary Workshop JLO Factory Hamburg. (Thanks for the wonderful pictures Lex).

But if you watch closely you will discover another marking as well: a half circle with either A6 or 9V, depending on the way you look at it. Is it a faintly stamped full circle? No it isn't. I've seen another one combined with a JLO stamp:



So could it be a JLO inspector's marking...? Maybe, but there's no JLO stamp in this picture:



These are the only pictures that I have with this half circle stamp. So not sure (yet) what it is...

And finally, there's also a single B stamp on Piers' engine and in the picture above. We've discussed these B and BB stamps in this thread.

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com