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BSAs and sidecars

Hi everyone. My lifelong dream came true and I bought my BSA M20 this year and I love it!! The guy before me fitted a sidecar to it which is a lot of fun. However I believe it's unusual for BSAs to have them and given they were mainly dispatch riders bikes, why would a sidecar have been fitted? Cheers!

email (option): lucyjvalantine@hotmail.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

Hi Lucy
Stating the obvious first, your bike has had a long history & who knows what happens to these machines in the course of their lifetimes?
But the addition of a sidecar was a common fate for M20s as their low speed pulling power made them ideal for the job.
Exactly what type of M20 do you have? Apologies if you know this already but up to about 1948 or so they had girder front forks (the type most commonly seen in photos on this site) & no rear suspension. Following this they had more modern telescopic forks & rear suspension. A War Department bike will have a "W" prefix in front of its engine & frame number.

Re: BSAs and sidecars

Lucy, there were a few war time contracts for M20 combinations totaling around 660 that we know of. Some obviously came with a box sidecar and the passenger outfits were fitted with the Swallow model 8 sidecar. Must of these were supplied to the RAF.

The combination frames were fitted with sidecar lugs, (The solos weren't) If yours has clamp on fittings? then it's most likely to be a post war civilian conversion. Regards Ron

Scan-20180920

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

My first WD M.20 came from Dawson Motorcycles of Nottingham - registration LTV 58F and that was later fitted with Steib sidecar. The bike was not from one of the wartime contracts for sidecar versions of the M.20 but all the same it made a great combination. Sadly I had to sell the outfit in the mid 1970s to raise the cash to buy an Enfield combination and the chap who bought my M.20 and Steib only really wanted the sidecar for his BMW.

As a matter of interest I seem to recall Dawsons also selling ex WD M.20s fitted with AA box sidecars.

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

Re: BSAs and sidecars

FWIW
When BSA rationalised the model range into C , B & M ranges, the M was the heavyweight range specifically designed to be hitched to a side car
The 350 M19 vanished from the range very quickly as if just did not have the power to pull a sidecar.
To save metal the side car lugs were removed from a lot of the WWII bikes but came back on the post war bikes
As there was not much of a difference in price post WWII a 600 M21 was the go for hauling a chair but because they were very cheap a lot of ex military WM20's got a side car if they had the mounting points

Re: BSAs and sidecars

There were plenty of aftermarket sidecar fittings available to adapt virtually anything to haul a 'chair'...We are talking here of the early post war to mid fifties (at least) where most people didn't own a car and the light van for commercial use wasn't all that common either....
So, the outfit was the main option for anyone who didn't have the budget for a 4 wheeler but needed more capacity than that offered by a solo machine....In fact the AA outfits weren't universally replaced by small vans until the early/mid 60's...

When I had my first couple of bikes around '70/'71 and still lived at home the window cleaner that did his rounds in my area still used an ex police Triumph Saint with a sidecar attached for all his ladders, buckets etc...Over time it's sometimes forgotten just how common, popular and necessary the sidecar outfit was....How about a mobile blacksmiths forge?....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

John O'Brien sent this picture of an ex Irish Army M21. He has the details. Ron
IMG-5422

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

Looks like one of the heavier pre war BSA sidecar chassis, a No.6c perhaps?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: BSAs and sidecars

This is what John told me Rob.

"An Irish m21 - ordered sept 39 - delivered aug 40 The only known photo of the 14 delivered"

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

Hi Keith,
First time for me commenting on this forum and considering the WM20 history in my family I've been fairly late to purchase one. I found Lucy and your comments interesting. Firstly, I own OTO 30F an ex Dawsons bike late 1939/40, I also have a matching frame/engine No. WM20 and Ariel W/NG. I was born in 1954 at the 'General Lying-in' Waterloo near Westminster Bridge. On the day I left hospital my Dad turned up on his WM20 with sidecar to collect me and my Mum. I understood from my parents, in later life, that I didn't stop screaming for 2 years at the sight of long grass, my Godmother's long fuzzy hair, and the canopy of that sidecar being closed!

At that particular time my Dad was working for Pride & Clarke, his second stint, and previously in 1948-50.
He was born on 1st July 1916 at Beacon Terrace Newark, his Father a Commissioned Officer, was killed around Nov/Dec 1915 and never married my Gran.
In 1929, at the age of 13, he got a Saturday job at Dawson Motorcycles, Shakespeare Street Nottingham, which he adored. The 1929 Wall Street Crash had a devastating effect on the north of England, and for Dawson's in particular because 95%, at least, of all bikes sold were on Hire Purchase. Late 1932 Dawson purchased an artic and my Dad set about building a 3 tier trailer to 'snatch back' all default payment bikes, he travelled the length and breadth of the UK, ripping out all the windows on the top deck of a tram in New Cross London, on the way (handlebars hanging over). Poverty, not King and Country, forced him to join up on 22nd Dec 1935, fully enlisted RASC January '36.
One year at Aldershot, 1937 Aldershot Coronation Tattoo, Egypt Suez two and half years back for Nov '39, Dunkirk, Burma Feb '42 to November 1945 - October 1942 new REME colours and Warrant Officer Class 1, almost fluent Urdu, Hindi, Arabic - Demobbed 1st April 1946.
PS Ironically for 60 years I lived 70mtrs away from Russell Motors now I'm 70 miles away! Also, does anyone remember Henry Baldock from East Stoke and his stunning motorcycle collection he kept in the back of 10 old British Sugar Luton bodies at his, long gone, Petrol Station on the A616 South Muskham from Newark? Blimey, I was only going to write a few words.

email (option): pma1710@aol.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

Hi Bob
My apologies for the delay in replying. The bike is 1944 with girder forks and no steering damper. The guy who owned it before had the sidecar made up and badged up Home Guard with a replica Lewis gun. It's also got a chunk missing out of the tank indicating Vokes air filter so may have been prepared for or used in the desert.
Lucy

email (option): lucyjvalantine@hotmail.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

Hi Ron

It's definitely a recent sidecar. Was wondering why BSAs would have had the sidecar fitted in the war as most BSAs were used solo (going by photos). I understand the Norton was known for sidecar attachment. If a sidecar was fitted to a BSA, presumably it wouldn't have been used for dispatch riding?

Lucy

email (option): lucyjvalantine@hotmail.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

Hi there
Thank you for replying! These bikes sure have a rich history!

Lucy

email (option): lucyjvalantine@hotmail.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

Hi there

That's interesting. My bike is a WM20 so 500cc . I don't know if it had original lugs/mounting points. I met a guy who used to own it back in the day, and he thought there might have been.
Lucy

email (option): lucyjvalantine@hotmail.com

Re: BSAs and sidecars

It would be very difficult to remove any original M20 sidecar lugs without some sort of tell tail. Here is a genuine RAF outfit that I once owned. Ron
BSA-sidecar-002
BSA-sidecar-006

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

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