Got a BSA WM20 has been in the family for 35 years, never been restored & has been sitting in garage all that time. I really want to restore it but I’m torn between keeping it military spec or bringing back to civilian & sort of paying homage to the war with a subtle green petrol tank.
What’s the general consensus? Is taking away the military spec a big no no or is it personal preference??
My personal feeling is that you should start by researching what you've got. Most of these bikes have been civilianised at some point in their lives...I see a world of difference between an M20 left in France in 1940 and still in original paint, a bike painted matt green in the 1970s, or indeed one preserved just as it left service in the 1960s...but at the end of the day, you have to be happy riding it.
A bike in WD trim does give a foot in both the old motorcycle and military vehicle worlds.
Hi Steve
This is the WD Motorcycle forum, what sort of response do you expect?
But its yours so do what you want.
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Hi Steve
It's your bike, you can do what you like with it.
But if it's been in the family in this condition for all those years, perhaps it'd be best to either restore it to military specs as close as possible to original or, depending on its condition now, do what it takes to get it going & keep it like that.
My own bike's the opposite. It'd been civilianised when I got it & I just regard it as a nice old machine that I (with a lot of help from others) keep going.
A difficult decision, but here's my take on it: if indeed it has 'never been restored' then I would urge you to leave it exactly as it is. Plenty of restored bikes are to be seen, but unrestored ones are very rare. Enthusiasts and ordinary folks like me get quite excited about them! The question is to establish what 'never restored' means in your instance. You'll need to do some research therefore, to find out what it would have look like when it was first produced. It may well have been updated over the years before it sat in the garage. A 1942 bike would be 80 years old, and you can account for only 35 of those years. So perhaps it needs to be returned to the way it was in some small ways? That would be a good way to start - by doing as little as possible.
Bear in mind this is my opinion only, and only extends to the cosmetics. If you need to overhaul a major mechanical item, then you should do that, of course, to ensure you have safe and trouble-free riding. No one will ever know the difference externally if you replace the valves, for example.
The bottom line for me is that a bike is only original once. If it's been restored it will always be non-original and therefore just a little less interesting.
Allan
email (option): allanmatchless@yahoo.com
I don't think a green paint job on the tank will 'pay homage to the war' in any meaningful way...That just sounds like a 'sitting on the fence' compromise that is niether one thing nor the other....
There are a lot of ex. military M20s about and unless the bike is in good original condition, as used by the Army, I wouldn't worry about originality too much if you really want a civvy bike...If it is very original then you should think carefully before changing it's specification in my opinion....
However, many were civilianised post war as people had seen enough of army green paint and just wanted cheap transport in a time of shortage...At the end of the day it's entirely up to you what you decide to do with it...Perhaps you could be guided by the thoughts of the relative you inherited it from?....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Being entirely mercinary, it is worth much more as a WD bike and even more if, as you say, the finish is original pre-disposal!
Thanks for all the replies.
I don’t know if it’s still in war condition, the paint doesn’t look like the correct green but then again I’m told they used whatever they could back then. I know it’s missing a few pieces like the speedo for one.
If I could get it mechanically sound so I can ride it but still keeping it’s patina I think that’s maybe the better option. I have done some research on it from the tank numbers etc. It left the factory 5-07-1940 & went to the war office London.
FWIW
I am the 3rd ( 4 th if you count the army ) owner of a 1943 model that was apparently not deployed and the military provenance can not be established .
The previous owner made no cosmetic changes to the so it is as the original civilian owner rode it from 1946 to 1979
It was civilianised back in the 40's and has what we worked out is probably a 250 cc Empire Star tank & matching wheels.
These would have been obsolete parts post WWII so probably sold off cheap
He got the bars , levers, brake pedal , girder links , engine plates and exhausts all chromed .
All of that plus the original bike would have still been substantially cheaper than a new 250 C series BSA in the day.
At some point the rear 2 piece guard has been replaced with a flip up one from a plunger .
I have no intention of every changing the appearance because it has the povenance of continual use from 1946 through to now .
It has all of the rust, stone chips ,flakeing paint and faded gold pinlining that you would expect on a bike that has done countless miles and draws a lot of attention when put on display because it has a REAL history which is evident when you look at it .
I am yet to find an original WWII M20
None of them have a square mm of paint that was applied by the BSA factory and just about every one of them has been decked out in livery that is not the original military application so they are not "restored" they are remanufactured visual representations.
And even the many have powder coated parts which is the wrong material .
Nothing wrong with doing that till you take it to extreames or take yourself too seriously.
I have seen 2 jeep owners take to each other with tyre irons over which one had the "authentic" olive drab finish .
It is your bike so do with it what makes YOU feel good every time YOU look at it and makes YOU feel great every time YOU throw a leg over it .
No matter what you do you get critisied
I regularly get pilloried by military enthusiasts for "destroying" my bike .
Then some one will approach me telling me how much they admire my bike as is, fo;;owed by asking when am I going to restore it then get offended when I say I am not going to touch it .
A motorcycle is only "original" once and in the case of a WM20 that is with what the factory fitted with no markings other than the C number .
After that it is a case or owner ( or user ) modifications as divisional markings & specific operational fittings were carried out.
From my point of view the bike as my grand dad rode it then passed it own to my father & finally me is far more original than any trailered visually perfect remanufacture because your family bike is authentic, not faked up to represent what we feel it should be for whatever reason we feel it should be done ( grandads division for example ) like that.
Remember "try to please all & you will please none "
So please yourself and enjoy your bike
I bought two ex AA M21s back in the 70's (one with sidecar) and built one from the two using the best of the second hand parts and only some new cables, tyres and a few other bits...I thought the hand applied 'Parsons vehicle finish' enamel looked pretty good....The resultant machine, with a load carrying box instead of a sidecar body, performed well as a runabout/load carrier until I sold it to a friend a couple of years later...
Of course that was before the Classic Bike scene started to educate everybody that we all had a valuable classic that should really be restored or preserved...Lately I've noticed that evenm restoratiobn is becoming a dirty word, sacrificed on the alter of preserving supposed 'patina'....I'm as guilty as the next man as I've done my fair share of restoration and plenty of over restoration, along with turning out a lot of non standard bikes...
I've concluded that the unfortunate result is that the 'sacred cows' that get produced generally get ridden a lot less...Military bikes are thankfully a bit of an exception in some cases...I think perhaps we spend far too much time worrying about owning a bike that looks brand new, is factory perfect in its specification or has its supposed historical patina preserved....
I think in hindsight my attitude towards the old M21 was a lot more healthy if we are talking motorcycling and not historic preservation and/or investment...Funnily enough motorcycling was what I started out doing, in a time when such 'dilemmas' were unimaginable and the current navel gazing would have been deemed eccentric.....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
IMHO
Nut & bolt perfect bikes with computer controlled perfect matched colours to what was originally done have one place .
A Museum so others can appreciate what the period LOOKED like fashion wise.
Other than that bikes are meant to be ridden and the more they get ridden the better .
Even more important is by being ridden, parts get worn out which need to be replaced so a continious market is created for parts.
Once they become objects d'art then that is the end of them ever being viable transport again and parts no longer get made.
I have just had some low compression pistons made for the T bolt as there is only one compression ration piston currently made and none planned for the future.
Look at how many parrts people here have been forced to make because they are NLA where as if people rode their bikes they would be available.
Currently I am lookingfor a neew set of saddle springs but it looks likethese too will have to be made to order .
My bikes are my every day transport and the van is used only in foulweather or to pick up stuff to big to go on the bike and of course for towing.
This was a conscious decision made back in 2000 and I have been all the better for doing it .
During this time I have probably aided 50 if not 100 people getting back onto their bikes because they see me and realize that now the kids have gone there is no reason to lock themselves into the box on wheels .
On top of that I have come across a dozen or so old hoards that widdows have been sitting on , unsure what to do with them that I have helped getting back into circulation.
Of course living some where with 300 clear sunny days does help a lot but I am not afraid to pop the wet weathers on .
The clock is ticking at 70 my riding days are rapidly coming to an end so it is time to take the advice I have been handing out for decades, ride it now, plenty of time to restore when you can no loger swing a leg over the saddle.
Thanks folks. I think I’ve made up my mind, the bike needs to be sorted out mechanically first. Make it rideable & enjoy it. If I can get it that far I will keep it the way it is looks wise, with all its little perfect imperfections. It adds character & tells a story.
Wasi sabi... :wink:
email (option): wd.register@gmail.com
Yes...:shinto_shrine: ....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Never knew we had a philosopher in our international BSA community.
Je pense donc je suis. :smile:
email (option): wd.register@gmail.com
Isn’t it wabi sabi ?
email (option): unpob
You're right Henri. Errare human est.
email (option): wd.register@gmail.com