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My WM20 1943 Build

I thought I started this before, but I can't find a trace.
This build is from a pile of bits that I either traded for or obtained by some other expensive means.
I still think for anyone wanting an old bike, buying a complete one that runs is the answer. Then spend lots of time and money fixing it, despite it being sold as "perfect"
I think the frame I have has changed hands many times, and unfortunately been subjected to "fixing" and modifying.
After lots of stress I think I've finally got it to a condition where it should be rideable.
Some of the errors in alignment of the rear frame could only be down to dangerous enthusiasts.
I did have it shot blasted in the hope of making it easier to repair.
The company I used had this done for me then kindly coated it in primer! So it had to be blasted again.
This has made it very difficult to "wet" the steel whilst bronze welding or brazing.
I think this poor frame has even been subjected to being held in a tree whilst straightening due to the dent in the top tube. For now it can stay.
I first noticed there was an issue with the rear wheel lugs as the Robb Nortier Alignment spindle was awkward to tighten. Not only did the faces not look at each other, hollows had formed from years of retightening the wheel spindles.
I faced these hollows with nickle bronze as it is quite hard, then filed them flat using the original castings as a gauge.
A seat lug had been cut off, so that needed replacing. Also where the field stand had been fitted the tube was crushed. This was also built up with nickle bronze.
I still need to make a new rear foot peg mount and repair the other.
The stop pin for the left hand wheel adjuster was cut flat so that had to be removed.
Quicker to type than do, I think I spend about 10 hours getting it in shape. I have a Motorliner Jig, but the workshop isn't big enough at the moment to use it. I think it would have been easier to have used it.

Not the nicest of pictures, but I never like to mislead by only showing the pretty stuff.
The next task will be to see how well the rack and panniers fit.









Please feel free to criticise ;)

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

Hello Mark,

I'd say this project was coming along very nicely! Good work!

Allan

email (option): allanmatchless@yahoo.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

Unhappy with the rear frame alignment I decided better accuracy was required, so I made three 300mm pins. 3/8", 7/16" and 3/4"
This enabled me to take better measurement. Unfortunately where the rear frame had been damaged from the field stand clamp my simple fix shrank the tube by what appeared to be 3mm.
At these times you have to be bold. Out with the hacksaw :(
Spreading the frame proved the issue as the alignment that I didn't like was corrected.
This gave me the opportunity to cut out the bad area of tubing and replace it with some T45 tubing.
Then just a bit of metal glue applied using the TIG welder.

As the rear mudguard is of Indian origin I think I will fit the rear wheel and build the structure over the wheel to avoid any contact with the tyre.
Ah, tyres! Thats another thing to try and make my mind up over.





email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

Did you Tig braze the T45 tube?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

It's bonded with a pipe welding grade steel wire Ian, the same as what I use for my new frames. It flows like mud but is stronger than the mild steel everyone else uses.

I've never tried TIG brazing, but I really must. From experience the heat of TIG tends to boil the Zinc out of the Brass.
I asked how that's overcome and was told it's a specific alloy used for TIG brazing.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

Yes, I looked into it as I have to make some alterations to a Wasp frame which is a mixture of T45 and 4130 tube...My understanding was that the 4130 can be tig welded as normal using a steel filler rod whereas the T45 should be brazed using a specific grade of filler rod...Still more homework to do before any work takes place...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

4T45 is basically drawn from EN14. It was developed during WW2 for making airframes. It can be fusion welded or non fusion welded without subsequent heat treatment. It is also more forgiving for semiskilled welders. All my frames are TIG welded T45
When I had connections with Wasps in the late 70's early 80's I think they were using CDS or CDS2 seamless mild steel tubing. I'm sure they were flux flame bronze welded. It was a long time ago. The sidecar chassis were only good for about half a season before they started fracturing.
People do TIG weld 4130 with mild steel wire without post weld heat treatment. The idea is the weld stretches before the tube cracks. personally I would never use 4130. I seen many frames fail using this method.
When I moved into the Car world making Chassis and suspension parts the Chassis were Nickle Bronze welded, much stronger than Brass but harder to work with. Also they insisted on a raised deposit for RAC inspection. The suspension parts were TIG welded Mild Steel with Mild Steel Mig Wire, the fashion then was full penetration miniature welds. I can't see well enough to do them anymore. What shocked me was the fact the wheels were supposed to come off in a crash to consume some of the impact energy.
Just remember, penetration is everything in fusion welding. Very few welders seem to manage it.
If you need any help or advice Ian, please feel free to ask. (sadly I'm even qualified to design and inspect welds)

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

I have to add a few not particularly load bearing brackets to the frame (side panels, electrical component mountings and the like...)..Wasp are the only name in the game for the type of frame I'm after and were very accommodating regarding the modifications I requested, so I've got to go with that...It's for a road bike so not quite as highly stressed as a competition frame....I have a friend who's run the same Wasp frame in pre 65 scrambling without any cracking issues after a number of seasons, so fingers and everything else crossed for this one...
As a toolmaker I never got into the welding side (most toolmakers avoid it if possible due to inaccuracies caused by distortion!). I have access to the services of a professional welder who does most of his work in, predominantly, stainless steel but also aluminium and mild steel..Wasp have said I can help myself to offcuts for experimentation when I pick up the frame..All the factory applied brackets are mild steel...
As this subject is off topic for this forum I'd better not get into too much of a discussion over it...Thanks for the offer of advice...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

Progress is slower than I hoped, I have a pair of useable wheels. I just needed to get rid of some silver paint splashed over them.
Many ideas were tried, each better at removing the wrong paint. In the end I left them soaking in the ultrasonic clearer allowing the heat to soften the paint. The wheels proved to have been painted many times in many colours. Still unhappy with the results I think I'll have to upgrade the bead blaster and remove the final traces of paint and rust.
So much for a short cut to getting it on the road faster.
I will epoxy prime these and paint with a semigloss 2k paint.
Being premature I even have German tyres for it now. (made in china I expect)

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: My WM20 1943 Build

I look forward to hearing more of your build since I also have a 43 project... Pictures are great . Keep them coming

email (option): wadeschields@mindspring.com

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