Hi All,

I have a Norton 16 H with Engine number: 22602.

I do not have any info about the bike s year and the model as the previous owner has lost all it's records.

Requesting your help in tracking it's history and if it was used in war.


Thanks All for the information and help.

Cheers All 👍👍👍

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com

Do the engine (and frame) numbers have a 'W' prefix ? This will indicate that they were delivered under a wartime military contract and that they saw service use.

W22602 was part of an RAF contract. Probably delivered during the second part of 1940.

Hi Rik,

I checked on the engine number again. There is no pefix 'W'. It's only 22602.

Does this mean it was a civilian model.

Thank you for the response Rik.

Cheers All.

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com

Hello Muthu.

There don't seem to have been any Norton engines numbered 22000. In 1924 , they jumped from 13999 to 24000. This is probably because they realised that they had used 14000 before the Great War.

This is the inside cover from the factory record book for 1924.



The most likely situation with your engine is that it was a replacement engine and the 'W' was not stamped. This seems to have happened quite a lot with military rebuilds.

Hi Rik,

Thanks a lot for the effort and time you have showered for my request. This is of great information and learning of how the military bikes would have under possible transformations during war or anytime of it's usage.

Posting the picture of the bike and the engine number.

https://ibb.co/99zjWLS
https://ibb.co/6nqQKNy

Once again thank you Rik and everyone here for helping out.

Cheers All 👍👍👍

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com

It's difficult to see from the photo as it is quite low-resolution and the angle is a little oblique. The number font doesn't look like I'd expect to see on a 1940 WD16H. The '79x100' stamps though do look original. Are there any signs that the engine number has been removed and re-stamped ? I'm also surprised that there is no government inspection stamp.



This is W22074 showing the font that I'd expect and inspection mark M^179 which I'd expect at this point in 1940 although M^318 was used until not long before and there may have been an overlap.

Hi Rik,

Thanks a lot for the inputs, very informative about government Stamps ^179.

As far as I see I don't know if the number is removed or re-stamped. I had a word with the previous owner about the model. He gave a idea that this belongs to 1938 year.

But am also not sure about this Engine number:22602 .

Also why the Inspection stamp ^179 is missing.


It is very clear from the picture you have shared Rik.

Are there chances that this engine number could be re-stamped...

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com

Hi Rik,

One more clarification. I found out that the front and rear frame of this Norton 16 H has provisions for side car setup .

Is this available in all Norton 16 H or limited to particular models.

Kindly help on this Rik.

Thanks Rik


Cheers All 👍👍👍

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com

As far as I know, all pre-war Norton frames, military and civilian, had sidecar lugs integrated in the frame.
Racing models may have been an exception but I am not into those.

Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Hi Rob,

Thank you for the information. So many interesting facts about Norton.

I have always been a fan of war motorcycles. But not sure if this bike was in war theatres. Got one more picture of the bike.

https://ibb.co/zNvxcFJ


Cheers 🍻 All 👍👍👍

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com

Hello Muthu,

As far as I can see it is likely an ex military bike.

On my website (www.wdnorton.nl) you can read why it is not possible to find any individual machines history.

As they were built for a purpose it is very likely yours is also used by the military.
For early built machines it is basically without doubt.
Machines built late 1944 and 1945 may not have been actually used in the war anymore.

Can you give a picture of the frame number of your bike to make sure what it is?

The slightly odd engine number may have been an AS prefixed one indicating it to be a replacement engine but they "forgot" the to apply the "AS".
It fits in late AS numbers.


Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Hi Rob,

This is the picture of the frame number.

https://ibb.co/Hpk5z98

Looks like the frame number is W141912.
Please let me know if you can find any information.


Thanks a lot Rob.

Cheers

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com

W41912, I think ?



This would be from contract C7353 and was produced during the earlier part of 1941. It would have displayed WD number C4401938. This is the nearest number that I have on file.

Hi Rik,

Thank you for the information. Much delight to know this information.Any chances that the bike would have been used in the war Rik...


Census number C4401938 last four digits looks like Year...

Once again Thank you Rik.


Cheer 🍻 All

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com

Hello Muthu. This War Office contract was for 17000 machines to replace the losses in France earlier in 1940. The serial numbers ran from C4386027 to C4403026 and the individual numbers have no significance.

I have no doubt that a machine delivered during 1941 would have been 'used in the war' but it's impossible to say in what capacity. All we can say for certain is that it was sent from the Norton factory to the huge Royal Army Ordnance Corps depot at Chilwell, Nottinghamshire, from where it could have been sent anywhere in the world, as needed.

Some from this contract stayed in the UK. Very many were sent to the Middle East as large numbers of troops were being sent there. Although there seems to be little photographic evidence, it's quite possible that some were sent to the Far East too.

I have photographs of about 100 identifiable serials from this contract...out of 17000 so it's only a tiny proportion.

Hi Rik,

Thank you for your kind response. Am delighted to find that my machine would have been used in the war.

Without your time and information it's completely impossible for me to have got the information about my bike.

Once again I appreciate your time, effort and patience in helping me out.

If possible, please share the photographs of the serials you have from this contract. I would be delighted 😃 to see them.

Sorry if am asking too much and ignore if its not permittable

Thanks a lot Rik.

Cheers 🍻 All.

Happy Motorcycling

email (option): muthukumr.au@gmail.com