Hi I'm new here and I'm looking for some info on a bike I found (barn find ) a few months back . It's a 1939 Norton big 4 600cc .it's an ex WD model and it's nearly all complete .frame number 3784 and engine no. S 3784 . I'm from Dublin and the bike was found in Co. Donegal .any info would be much appreciated.

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

Hi Gary, sounds like an amazing find, can we see some pictures please.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hello Gary.
They are actually 633cc. 3784 is one of 1809 from contract C11297 in the second half of 1941. Mine is one of the 429 that was cancelled from that contract and supplied to the RAF. Regards Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Rob I emailed you some pics there ,I can't upload them to this forum for some reason tks.Gary

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

That's a beauty ,thanks for the info

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

Hi Ron yes I can see a brass badge behind the rear light /numberplate bracket C 11297.Any other info would be great thanks

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

Hello Rob,

Can you put the pictures on the forum??

Best wishes for 2022 to you all, lets hope we can make some more milage this year.

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Great that it still has its contract plate attached. 3784 is the 285th bike from that contract and I calculate the census number to be C4591694. Regards Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ron ,any idea how it could of ended up in Ireland ?? Or where it went into service!is there any way I can find out where it went ! Tks.

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

Well it's not very often that we know where any machines went. John O'Brien from this forum has been researching BSA's that were supplied to Ireland and might have come across something or at least some clue as to where to look. The truth is, we usually have little knowledge of our bikes history. But being original and found in Dublin is a good first stepping stone.

Production of the Big4's ceased not long after ours, as by then the Jeeps were coming from USA and considered a much better light recce vehicle.

I'd be more than happy to receive some pictures too. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Nice project, could we see an image of the other side toolbox area please?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Quite extraordinary,

The sidecar wheel drive appears to have survived the torch of the military !!

Lots of original parts on it!

Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Could we also see a picture of the underside and face of the speedo and the handlebar control levers please
Cheers Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi Gary, That's a great find,I did some research on the Irish WM20's some time ago and discovered that the Irish Army had 10 Norton Big Four side car outfit and your bike was one of them, ZD 3098 with frame 3784. I found them in registration ledgers in the Pearse Street library. You may find them in the vehicle books in the military archive in Cathal Bruagh barracks also.
At the time I also discovered they had 500 Royal Enfields 350's which were returned to the UK because of a technical problem. If you read David Crawfords biography on Stanley Woods you can get the story on them.

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

Thanks Mick ,that's some great info to go on . Thanks for your help .

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

What a great find!!

John O'Brien asked me to post this photo for him.

I am sure he will add some comment with this photo.

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Thanks bastiaan

This is taken in Dublin we think sometime late in 1941
It’s the only photo I have seen featuring one of these norton outfits

The civilian registration provided on all government vehicles is unfortunately not legible

However the trooper 2nd from left front row was identified as Trooper Gus Slattery from my home town of Clonmel - father of a family friend

These Nortons seemed to have disappeared quickly from the army asset register after the war - along with the m21 outfits also delivered in august 1940

Now that I am more or less back in Ireland - by end of Jan - I can give more time to this & visits to the information resource centres in Dublin
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Michael W. asked me to post the photo below.

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Thanks Bastiaan, I'm sorry it's so small. There appears to be three Norton outfits in the picture and may have been taken at the same time as John O'B's photo. It is the 2nd Motor Squadron, Griffith Barracks, Dublin.

Mike

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

I hadn’t seen this one until tonight Michael

Nice one

Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Wow John this is fantastic. I'm delighted I found this forum, from knowing very little to all this info is amazing.what a great bunch of people. Thanks very much to you all and keep the info coming if there's any more .Thanks again Gary

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

Some more of Garys pictures, I would still like to see an image of the tool box to see if it ever had the brass sidecar plate fitted and a picture of the contract plate on the rear mudguard would be nice but I understand they can be difficult to get at if they are behind a number plate.

I'm interested that although this is a 1941 machine it has the early type speedo fitted with the different cable fitting and the "armoured" rubber outer, was this carried on to the end of big4 production or has this early part been retro fitted?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

My guess is that the speedo was later fitted, the speedo has the daytrip option. I believe this was not standard for WD B4's or the Irish War Office should have requested this specifically.

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

The speedo has olive green paint all over it so I presume it's always been there .unless it came off another WD bike !!

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

Gents,

Speedo's for the British army were definitly without trip.
It may indeed have been an Irish requirement to add the trip version.
Maybe even more so as it is said to be painted green in this case!

Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

What an excellent find and a very worthy project. Finding a sidecar chassis will not be easy but hopefully one can be found. If of any help I have some spare large bearing housings for the WD Big 4 including that for sidecar chassis + the matching large nuts which I acquired some 50 years ago all NOS with some other WD Big 4 spares that came from a Midlands dealer.

I do have one wartime photo of a WD Big 4 and sidecar taken in Ireland - like so many wartime photos it is focussed more on the people than the machine - the photo is taken square on from the front so the census number is not visible BUT it does show the speedo cable which is as per this recent find.

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

Rob this picture from the same contract, shows the later speedo and cable. Which now means I'll probably have to throw my Jaeger and outer sheathed cable over the hedge:confounded: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Years ago before I learned much, forgot it all again and relearned some of it I had a regular speedo cable made for my big 4 project with the thick rubber outer, I may fit it "if" I ever get to that stage of the rebuild.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Very nice bike to start with! just two observations, there was one bike, the 1940/41 Matchless G3WO, that had a trip in the (pin drive) speedo in the early contracts, then the cable, late Matchless G3WO's, the last contracts for 1941, also had the newer types of speedo, not saying Norton did the same, checking the parts lists might help here.

This is not the first Big 4 that was found in Ireland, but that one is in Holland now, all restored.

Let me know Gary, if you need more info, I have pictures and info on most of the parts, I own 2 of them.

One of them is fully restored, here a picture some years ago, in Ireland!



Cheers,

Lex Schmidt

Norton parts lists, as usual follow a little behind..On the 16H, they show the change as between contracts C9062 and C10217 but in fact, period photos suggest that it occurred a little earlier - in the forst half of 1941, under contracts C7353 and C7576..Big 4s from around S3000 ought to have had the later type S433B speedo and cable.

The fact that these few Irish machines were delivered from British contracts would suggest that they initially had non-illuminated, non-trip units...Do we know what the pre-war Irish M20s had ? If they had trips then this is probably where they came from.

Hi Rik
There is no evidence yet to indicate that bsa K series or any of the early bsa W models supplied in 39 or 40 to the iDF had trip option speedometers fitted
Br
Job

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Thanks for your help Lex.

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

There's a couple of Norton big 4 sidecar chassis on ebay, they're located in Germany.

Here are the links. Ron

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175054352546?hash=item28c20d70a2:g:tmAAAOSwOiRhr1RW

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175054408038?hash=item28c20e4966:g:e6sAAOSwSdNhr1xP

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Yes, that is Thomas in Germany, I bought several Big 4's from him, for friends, only the one in the first link is a real Big 4 chassis.

Cheers,

Lex

Thanks Lex .

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com

Thanks Ron .

email (option): Shamrockwindows@hotmail.com