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Re: Tool Roll

The price of three of them ! I suspect that somebody is trying to quickly recover the costs of his Beaulieu weekend....

Re: Tool Roll

The anti-rattle tin seems to have been a Coventry invention and through the earlier 1930s, both Coventry and Renold had their own tins...I had an idea that the Coventry chains were higher quality with a more complicated bush construction and the introduction of tins for both makes suggests that the chain had become identical and the difference was purely marketing.

This advert is from 1935.

Reynolds-The-Motorcyclist-chain-spares-1935-1

It's clear from the illustrations in the Norton M&I Manual and the RE WD/C toolkit photo that these Renold tins were not the wartime type and the Flea illustration provides the definitive confirmation that up until mid-war, the dual make tin was in use.

Chain-Spares-WDRE

I can find little evidence of when the red / grey tins were introduced. They seem to be wartime but must be quite late...perhaps a response to the shortages which reduced the number of permitted colours on screened tin plate designs.




Re: Tool Roll

Rik
The anti-rattle tin seems to have been a Coventry invention and through the earlier 1930s, both Coventry and Renold had their own tins...I had an idea that the Coventry chains were higher quality with a more complicated bush construction and the introduction of tins for both makes suggests that the chain had become identical and the difference was purely marketing.

This advert is from 1935.



It's clear from the illustrations in the Norton M&I Manual and the RE WD/C toolkit photo that these Renold tins were not the wartime type and the Flea illustration provides the definitive confirmation that up until mid-war, the dual make tin was in use.



I can find little evidence of when the red / grey tins were introduced. They seem to be wartime but must be quite late...perhaps a response to the shortages which reduced the number of permitted colours on screened tin plate designs.




Hi Rik,

Yes these type of tins were also used in the early BSA M20 toolkits. In the well known photo below you can just see the side of the early Renold tins with the chain No's. The later greyish/red Renold tins didn't have the chain No's printed on the side.

Regards,
Bastiaan

Inked003-3-LI

20210116-202938

20210116-203006

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: Tool Roll

Bastiaan, likewise the 1940 Norton early illustration. Clearly the combined tin.

Equipment-to-Scale-6







The pre-war type mention Renolds on the end.

DSC-0601

The Norton M&I Manual throws a spanner in the works as although the illustration clearly shows 'Chain Spare Parts' on the side and looks like the combined Renold / Coventry box, the top looks more like (but not 100%) the mid-thirties type...Norton's artists though were notoriously lazy when it came to updating drawings so I suspect that someone just did the minimum necessary.

Chain-Spare-Parts-Late-Toolkit

The two sizes (primary and final) have the same length x breadth but height increases from .5" to .6" .

Chain-Spares-Renold-Coventry-End-elev

Re: Tool Roll

Here is the giant 1954 dated example which proves the webbing strapping was still in use post war.

tr10

The rotten example has a buckle on the end of the inner leather strap which seems odd, so perhaps this strap is a later replacement, also the outer leather strap is riveted on at the other end of the tool roll?

tr11

tr12

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Tool Roll

Hi Bastiaan,

Here are a couple of additional pictures of M20 tool rolls from Ireland which may be of interest. One of the pictures includes the details that is stamped internally on both rolls. I'm not sure if the 1944 refers to a year or a part number or indeed if the rolls are post war. The tools are obviously a mixture , incomplete and most likely incorrect.

https://ibb.co/cvzjJNL

https://ibb.co/rGqbhGv

https://ibb.co/6YrHpdh

https://ibb.co/n61KB3j

Regards,
Brendan.

Re: Tool Roll



That is the first 1 I see with a WW2 date! We now know for sure that these were used in 1944.

Brendan's photos:

BSA-M20-Toolroll-1

BSA-M20-Toolroll-2

BSA-M20-Toolroll-3

BSA-M20-Toolroll-stamping

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: Tool Roll

John did sent me some photos of the other tool roll he found. See photos below. I have seen this type of tool roll before and it is actually slightly larger compared to the khaki canvas one's. The tools fit properly in this tool roll, unlike the khaki one's.

Regards,
Bastiaan

IMG-6993

IMG-6994

IMG-6995

photo sharing

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: Tool Roll

The tool roll Brendan kindly shared with us would have come from contract S5209 which was a 1944/45 contract

500 machines arrived after the war - bought directly from the war dept as they had quite a few laying about in depots after the war ended

It seems to be made from the same material as mine but hasn’t had the hard life like mine down in the country - it has very nice markings

Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: Tool Roll

Bastiaan


That is the first 1 I see with a WW2 date! We now know for sure that these were used in 1944.

Brendan's photos:









This is great, MGC Co is a known 1937 pattern webbing manufacturer.

6704 is the LV6 reference for the replacement tool roll so this is definitely the generic wartime replacement roll...There is nothing in the contract documents to indicate that the M20s were supplied without toolkits so it's probably most likely that Ireland purchased surplus tool rolls too...but it is clear that one of these is never 'wrong' with an M20, even if it is not yet certain that it left the factory with such a roll.

C6127-b-3

Re: Tool Roll

Bastiaan: I bought my first M20 back in 1988 at "British Only", which was local to me. They had 6 M20s, all in postwar army green, just as they had been auctioned off, still with lot numbers on them. This group of bikes came with a large box of tools, most unissued in wrappings, with Chilwell tags on them. Even the grease guns were NOS, dated 1945, still full of grease.Even the tyre pumps were broad-arrow marked. Ken, the owner of "British Only", let me dig through the box, and select a complete toolkit for my bike, along with a set of canvas pannier bags, Y-straps, and a tool roll. The canvas tool rolls were all 1944 dated, and were the type that you reproduced. I soon bought another M20 from him, and again, he let me put together a complete tool kit for that one,too. I got another set of pannier bags and straps for that one, along with another '44-dated canvas tool roll. Most of the pannier bags were WW2, but they had postwar registration numbers stencilled on them (such as "06 YD 09") on the flaps. I managed to get two sets of bags that were unmarked. He also had TRW pannier bags, which were identical to the WW2 bags, but in a dark green canvas. The tyre repair kits were still sealed, but dated 1954.
Since 1988, I've probably seen at least 30 ther m20s in my general area of Michigan, and I've seen several of those same type of canvas tool rolls with them. Many years ago I posted pics of my tool kit and tool roll, but those photos aren't on this computer anymore.

Re: Tool Roll

Neil's newly acquired chain links. Ron
Neil

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Tool Roll

Yes Rick your right spark plug is wrong, pliers I’ve replaced with correct pair with arrow stamping, screwdriver is on its way now too. Many thanks neil

email (option): neilblount@hotmail.co.uk

Re: Tool Roll

Neil blount
Yes Rick your right spark plug is wrong, pliers I’ve replaced with correct pair with arrow stamping, screwdriver is on its way now too. Many thanks neil
Great stuff Neil...Have you worked out how to post photos on here yet ? :grinning:

WD markings on hand tools are a strange area...it certainly seems that the manufacturer's toolkits were not marked...presumably replacements were, but there are very few pre- or early-war dated WD tools...far fewer than there are RAF tools and yet the army must have had more...I really think that only a small number were stamped originally.

What type of plug is your 18mm KLG ? I'm still looking for a couple of types.

Re: Tool Roll

No, I’ve no idea 😊, I can’t keep asking Ron , he’ll block me!😊, just like I was told at school…”must try harder”!

email (option): neil.blount@hotmail.co.uk

Re: Tool Roll

Oops! I’ll get back to you re. The plug details

email (option): neil.blount@hotmail.co.uk

Re: Tool Roll

Wow I thought I was a hoarder, perfect over the weekend I’m away but I have a tool roll that came from a bike that was in storage on the Rhine so will photo that and send to Ron as I’m a dunce regarding posting here

email (option): warbikes@gmail.com

Re: Tool Roll

Hi Gary,

That is a nice pile! Exactly what I am looking for.

Could you send me an email to this Address, please?

Wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Regards,
Bastiaan

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

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