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BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

Hi all

i was going through 2 instruction books I have managed to pick up - consecutive contract books

C6654
WM20 21,001 to WM20 25,000

C7287
Wm20 25,001 to WM20 42,000

in these early books they still used "pictures" or detailed line drawings of some kind and it revealed a lot of the small changes taking place during the early period of the war
although these are far from definitive, these are notes on what I saw - they may be of interest to some here

C6654
Ribbed Valanced rear guard
Rear carrier
Short lifting handle
Full width number plate with MT110 rear light
Balloon petrol Tank
Rubber Mount bars
levers not clear - assume Combo type ?
8" headlight
Front Number plate
Front brake Rod - quickly detachable
Quick detach Fr brake plate - for rod
Aluminium Valve chest cover
Oil Pressure Indicator
Timing Cover with timing hole
Riders footrests with slip on rubber - not secured by large washer or bolt
Metal and rubber Oil lines seen - but also the earlier all rubber oil lines

C7287
Ribbed non valanced rear guard
rear carrier
Short lifting handle
Rear light holder with MT110 rear light
Mid war "symmetrical" petrol tank - non cutaway
Solid handlebar mount
Standardised military levers - assume ?
8" headlight
No front number plate
Front brake cable
Front brake plate with cable adjuster
Steel Valve chest cover
No oil pressure indicator
Standard timing cover - no timing hole
Riders footrests with slip on rubber - not secured by large washer or bolt
Metal and rubber Oil lines seen - but also the earlier all rubber oil lines in another illustration

I'm sure there are more differences to note - but with what I have in front of me this is what I can make out hope it helps or interests some of you

Br
JO'B


email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

John all these little details along with original pictures help with identifying when changes took place. This also helps to confirm the theory that the longer forks where introduced at contract C7287 from late 1940. :ok_hand: :+1: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

If it was only that easy Ron

I had a bike project recently which was dated jan 41

It’s covered under the 2nd contract I listed here

This had short forks & brake cable

If I had a complete set of parts lists I would go through them to see where changes took place - but I don’t

What we do have is most of us with some parts lists each & collectively I suppose between us we have them all - but not consolidated in one place to go through - hence we keep on finding new things

I must contact rob van meel- he might have some missing links in his portfolio of reprints

I have time these days to go through this kind of thing
Br
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

Its always been interesting to see the changes in parts from spares lists and drawings from handbooks but quite often they have been proven wrong, probably because changes in wartime were often more to do with shortages than ideal policy so could have occurred mid contract maybe after the publication of the books?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

Based upon my analysis of Norton contracts, I'm fairly certain that Spare Parts Lists were ordered and typeset prior to delivery of the contracts so they invariably fail to reflect the changes incorporated.

C7287 seems to have included some significant changes. It was the large (17,000 machines) order which was intended to help replace the Dunkirk losses...Demand date was 25/5/1940 and delivery commenced in August. It would appear that it continued until April 1941.

The Ministry of Supply ledgers are surprisingly well-annotated for these early contracts. The changes which involved cost adjustments are as below.

The contract ran WM20 25001 - WM20 42000. Based on this and the quantities to which the amendments applied, I have added in brackets the frame numbers at which the changes seem to have occurred. The yoke plate cover amendement though is contradictory...did the last few have them again or did the book keepers allow payment for some which had already been fitted ? Which part is it anyway ?

Non supply of Yoke Plate Covers - 15,538 machines (WM20 26462)
Non supply of ballhead clips yoke complete with bushes - 16,105 machines. (WM20 25895)
Cancelling No.1 amendment
Agreeing to fitment of yoke plate covers - 1462 machines
Modifications Front Fork - 13,197 (WM20 28803)
Prop stand lug brazed to frame - 11,095 (WM20 30905)
Modification of petrol tank - 8667 (WM20 33333)
Non-supply of rubbers for footrests - 8429 (WM20 33571)
Fitment of new type of tail lamps - 6444 (WM20 35556)
Improvement of exhaust tappet wearing qualities - 6830 (WM20 35170)
Modification of crankcase shield and addition of clips - 6626 (WM20 35374)

I'm not an M20 person though and I haven't checked any other evidence such as photographs against these changes, so E.&.O.E. applies

This is the ledger excerpt for those who wish to delve deeper. The dates appear to be those at which the cost changes were agreed and are quite often after the event. I don't consider that they can be taken as the effective date of the modification.

IMG-3912-2

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

Well I'm buggered! I started a quest some years ago with Henk's help to determine when the forks were changed to the longer ones, and came up with, at some point in contract C7287 (Late 40- Early 41). Now you provide the actual frame number!

17,000 bikes supplied over 9 months is an average of nearly 1900 a month, which means that WM20 28803 as the 3803rd bike could easily have been delivered in late 1940.

Thanks a million for the confirmation Rik:+1:

Strangely though I can't say I've noticed an M20 with a welded field stand lug. Something else to watch out for now!

Cheers Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

Thank you Rik that's great information, I'm rather ashamed that I haven't done any trips to Kew and other places to do my own research.

The change from the early to later tanks seems to be confirmed by these two pictures.

Rob

C4349733-WM20-33141-1
WM20 33141

C4349974-WM20-33382
WM20 33382 etc

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

Hi Rik
That’s some document that
Is it in Kew records office
I must go there - 40 mins by train for me
I must call & talk about it with you
Thanks for sharing with us
Br
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

That's a useful piece of photographic corroboration, Rob..the fuel tank change falls exactly as my calculations assumed that it should. It doesn't mean of course that they all do...

On the the subject of stand pivots, it may be that BSA never delivered and that the cancelling instructions were never noted in these summaries...It is clear that there were also separate detailed contract files that have not survived. We can't rely on this evidence in isolation, but if it reinforces what we see from other sources then it can provide that final piece of the jigsaw which swings 'probable' or 'likely' to 'certain'

John, these are indeed the National Archive Ministry of Supply ledgers - Huge leather-bound books. Even pre-virus though they were cutting down visiting times and files available....If it re-opens then get in there when you can.

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

That is a remarkable document, many machines from this contract ended up in the far corners of the war, were the 2118 crates for shipping the machines abroad or were they for the spare engines and gearboxes, 1700 + 425 = 2125? Is £2 4s per crate going to buy a small engine size crate or a larger one?

Rob

c4-1

0-R

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

Ron Pier
Well I'm buggered! I started a quest some years ago with Henk's help to determine when the forks were changed to the longer ones, and came up with, at some point in contract C7287 (Late 40- Early 41). Now you provide the actual frame number!

17,000 bikes supplied over 9 months is an average of nearly 1900 a month, which means that WM20 28803 as the 3803rd bike could easily have been delivered in late 1940.

Thanks a million for the confirmation Rik:+1:

Strangely though I can't say I've noticed an M20 with a welded field stand lug. Something else to watch out for now!

Cheers Ron
Ron, I've been looking at the Ordnance returns and I reckon that the 3803rd bike arrived at Chilwell around 14/12/40...I don't have the factory records for this contract. Rob Miller could check though.

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

I have picked up a second version or edition of the riders instruction book for contract C7287.

There are a few differences and this would seem to prove that all 17,000 copies weren't printed in advance of production, I havent included every suttle rewrite.

The change in oils for different temperatures printed in the later book was altered in the earlier one with glue in pieces of paper, and may stem from use of the WM20 in Iceland?, I wonder if this was the case with other makes used there?

The carbureter section has new drawings which looks like a different carb but it may just be artistic licence?

The codes in the printing data page 46 change from "C2494-10" to "C2924-10-24", does anyone have any other version?

All my scans show the later edition first.

Rob

C7287-2-1-0

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C7287-2-1-1

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C7287-2-1-4

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C7287-2-1-26

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C7287-2-1-33

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C7287-2-34-35

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C7287-1-34-35

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C7287-2-1-46

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email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

Hi Rob
Great addition to this post
Timely for many of us to make notes etc
Thanks for the update

Br
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: BSA Instruction books - Contracts C6654 & C7287

There would clearly have been a supply of spare parts lists and handbooks ordered for each contract, but presumably replacements were printed as and when needed ?

Certainly in the case of handbooks which were to be kept in the pocket of the toolbox, whether wrapped in oilskin or not, there must have been quite an attrition rate with replacements needed regularly.

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