The latest record price for an 'ordinary' WD bike...(that is not a rarity or prototype) has just been paid at the December H&H Auction...A fully restored 1944 Triumph 3HW from the National Motorcycle Museum 'surplus stock/reserve' collection....
The price??....£12650...Where to next?...Ian:thinking_face:
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Having seen their work, I very much doubt the rivet counter amongst us would sign it off. I went there two years ago with barely 12 month ownership of my WM20 project and even I was listing so many incorrect details I gave up after 15 minutes and just walked away from what I was hoping to be a good reference example and just admired the other machines.
🙁
I got the cylinder head off the WDM20 that was in the museum when the fire took place...I saw that before it was incinerated and that was also inaccurately restored...I know their Ivory Calthorpe isn't correct because I made some of the parts for it!!....
I think they should advise people not to use the machines as a restoration reference...Saying that it's an interesting day out and well worth a visit...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
That 3HW was privately restored for a friend of mine, who then sold it to NMM some time ago. (I've noted that it's not 100% correct but nicely restored) He told me it was coming up for sale as the NMM are raising funds to counteract the covid lost revenue. He was just as amazed as me by the price from the two bidders. Add to that the auction fee + vat.....about 14 Grand. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
I had a look around the museum in 1999. What does the military area look like today?
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Quite a lot bigger than it was then....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
I've only ever been there once, and I was quite surprised to see two bikes that I had restored and owned by the same guy with that 3HW. A WB30 and a 5SW. Apparently only on loan. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
It's really terrible there! and if someone put's it there "on loan" it's theirs forever, a big scam! they come up with so many insurance and upkeep fees, it's not worth trying to get it back, it's all in the small print, they got so many bikes of widows of deceased VMCC bike owners that didn't know what to do with the bikes, it's not funny anymore, like I said a big scam! don't ever fall for it.
Cheers,
Lex
email (option): welbike@welb**e.net
And when they have a big fire and no sprinklers fitted you lose your pride and joy.
Cheers,
Lex
I knew a couple of guys in the Midlands at the time who were employed to restore motorcycles for the Museum and was often approached for rare spares to assist in the restorations. I believe the early restorations were full and complete including all the internals but sometime later I was told that in order to save money some were externally restored only.
I have visited the Museum only once when a friend from the US visited and he wanted to go and whilst it is only 20 odd miles from where I live it holds little attraction for me to be honest.
email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk
Keith, exactly! glad you didnt fall for it!
Cheers,
Lex
email (option): welbike@welb**e.net
['The fire was a big insurance scam too! a lot of bikes were seen to be removed from the museum, just prior to the fire, this has been told to me by different people...']
I doubt that personally...Steve Jones from George Yeomans motorcycles had the bulk of the machines from the museum that were marked down for disposal as they were less 'important' models or unrestorable. He broke many of those and scrapped many of the fire damaged parts as he didn't consider them structurally sound or they were just too far gone. However, even those included Manx Nortons of different years, Vincents, Velocettes, Ariel Square Fours etc. etc....I personally saw multiple examples first hand at his shop in the time following the fire...
As the original 'Slippery Sam' was destroyed in the fire along with the Jonny Allen Triumph streamliner and also the bulk of the 'one off' works Velocettes, Rem Fowlers TT Norton and other rare early Nortons, to name just a few, it would seem they were happy to burn many irreplaceable machines in preference to the ones they supposedly removed beforehand....All of these bikes and many more besides were subsequently restored/replicated at vast expense.. (for example the wheel hubs, barrels ,camboxes and other parts of the Velocettes were reproduced from scratch...)
Does anyone know for sure which other even more valuable/rare bikes were removed?...It sounds like a typical conspiracy theory to me, though I'd be happy to change my mind if there was any proof....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
In view of the comments raised here, I asked my friend about the arrangement that he has regarding the bikes he's loaned to the NMM. He says there is definitely no problem and he's not worried at all. However it turns out that some of the bikes on loan at the time of the fire were not insured and the owners lost out. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
That is a fantastic museum ... Been there three times ... I go whenever Im on that side of the pond and can break away from the family... Last time was 2019 BSA rally in the Cotswolds we rode down to the museum in some pretty gruesome rain... I was on my friends M21 ...Well sorted and a blast to ride... I hope my WM20 will be that reliable and well sorted... Wish I could ship mine over to my friend to go through it... He said he would do it if I did but Im afraid that would be cost prohibitive ...
Anyway- 12 thousand pounds is a pretty good number... I would have to sell my BSA for that much if I keep spending money on it at the rate I am going ;)
email (option): wadeschields@gmail.com
Regarding the museum I've always enjoyed my visits, usually combined with an extra pilgrimage to what's left of the BSA factory....
The classic bike market is currently all over the place in the UK with fluctuating values/sale prices...The introduction of electric vehicles (at some point), generational changes, the effects of a long recession, the pandemic etc. etc. have all served to destabilise the market for old bikes though the ups ad downs affect different makes and models differently...
It doesn't seem to have affected military bikes much though and prices continue to rise year on year....I think that is partially down to the fact that they aren't the 'investors choice' generally. They are coveted by a lot of people that still like to ride...That is something that is sadly lacking in many parts of the classic scene...I don't think 'users' are quite so concerned about investment values etc. and apart from riding many have the associated interest in history...A very different mind set to the chap with his polished up pre unit Bonnie or a Vincent in the study...Long may it continue, it's one of the things that attracted me to military bikes in the first place (when you could hardly give one away)....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
I like the museum too, as long as you don't use the bikes there as a sample for your restorations, and just enjoy the atmosphere, it's OK, I ones tried to record all the prewar/wartime Norton handlebars on all the bikes, and took pictures of all of them, to see what levers they had, but 99% was wrong, very dissapointing!!
I won't go any deeper into the "scams" and other practises, as I won't divulge my sources, but they are first hand experiences from real people.
Cheers,
Lex
email (option): welbike@welb**e.net