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RAF Ariel WNG.



Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Looks like on this bike, the tank just shows RAF and the ID number. Can't quite make out what is painted on the front mudguard. Does anybody know if it was RAF policy to paint roundels on bike tanks? If so, on both sides? Were any other markings included, such as for example a group marking, B/91 or such like, either on the tank or on the mudguards. Thanks.

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Indeed they did Jon. I've got quite a few Norton Big 4, 16H and Ariel pictures with Roundels. There are probably other makes if I look. Certainly not all RAF bikes had roundels painted on though. Ron

RAF1

mil2

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Oh and these Indian 741's have roundels and it looks to me that this is possibly just post war and they couldn't wait to get their true colours into the equation and painted one half of the tank in gloss blue? Ron
RAFscan-151231-0001

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

I have an original 16H petrol tank from WW2 and that has an RAF roundel painted on it but only on the exhaust side.

I also have an original WW2 photo of an RAF M.20 with sidecar and that sports an RAF roundel on the sidecar body located on the top of the front section.

Hope this helps a little.

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Hi Ron

Interesting. Was a bit unsure if roundels were a post war thing or not. How about group markings? Have you ever seen any phots of those being applied to motorcycles? Reason being that my 16H is already marked up with RAF and a number, on the front number plate. No tank markings yet, just the Norton transfers. Being an early 1940 bike I'm not sure if a front plate would have been fitted. The hand written sign writing is so good I would like to keep it.

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Hi Keith

Whats on the left hand side of your 16H tank please? An RAF number or something else?

Cheers

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

I've seen RAF tactical markings on the front of vehicles and motorcycle front mudguards.

So far I've only ever found one picture of an RAF WD/CO! It doesn't have roundels or TAF number. But artistic licence prevails and I recently resprayed my tank to put the correct font serial number and TAF number on the top. Ron

DSCF2741
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email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Looks very nice Ron. I was having the same thougts regarding where to place group/tactical markings. The top of the tank is a logical place to apply them. I'll keep the front number plate with the RAF & Number, roundels either side of the tank and a group marking on the top of the tank. If anyone has any other photos of RAF M/C markings, it would be interesting to see them please.

I would like the bike to represent the group of a local former base which was part of a string of OTUs. These bases mainly trained on Wellingtons, many of which sadly crashed locally during the training flights.

Thanks for your help.

Jon

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Here's another group Jon. The Ariel in the foreground has a roundel on the N/S. I can't see any more roundels on the Matchless's or 16H outfit.

RAF-Screenshot-2020-04-11-at-17-32-46

This 16H has a large roundel. Lots of RAF 16H's were fitted with a Swallow model 8 sidecar. Ron

RAF

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Here is a list of markings. I presume you are thinking of "Bomber Command"

RAF-vehicle-markings

For my RAF Big4, I sort of copied it from original pictures, but of course I have no idea what unit it served with, so I marked it as "Coastal Command 19" which was the Sunderland base here in Poole Harbour. Ron

Big-4-300

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

There is nothing on the primary chaincase side of the fuel tank I'm afraid. There are photos of the tank posted on the WD16H & Big 4 website if you are interested.

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

I wonder if only having the roundel on the one side indicates the Keith's tank was originally on a combination?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Good point Rob. The swallow's often had a roundel on the nose.
It's how I did my B4. One on the tank O/S and one on the sidecar front. Ron

RAF-07022007-003

RAF-sidecar-1

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

Rob Miller
I wonder if only having the roundel on the one side indicates the Keith's tank was originally on a combination?

Rob
That's a very good point Rob which had not crossed my mind but which seems perfectly reasonable.

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

I am thinking of Bomber Command. A number of local airfield OTUs (Operational Training Units), came under B/21 group. Many of these airfields were situated in the Cotswolds. During the Battle of Britain, several were bombed by enemy aircraft due to a gap in the radar. As a result several flights were diverted to various local reserve landing grounds.

Looking at the information on identification markings, regarding the marking of larger vehicles, I wonder if those guidelines would have allowed a roundel on one side of the tank and, a group marking on the other? It happened on early war Army bikes of course which had the Census number on one side only and a Div sign on the other. Just a thought.

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

That is feasible Jon. If you look at the B&W group picture I posted earlier, one of the Matchless G3L's has TAF/83 on the N/S tank, which is not far removed from what I did on my CO tank. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

So it does! Missed that. Thats enough evidence for me. Roundal on one side and Group marking of B/21 on the other side of the tank. RAF & number on the front numberplate as already mentioned.

What size of roundal looks best? Also what size and font would you suggest for the lettering? Hopefully my favorite stencil supplier is open for busines. Lost touch with the old signwriter guy I used to use. Rgs - Jon

Re: RAF Ariel WNG.

The roundel stencils are a right fiddle on the double curvature of a tank. I went with 1" digits on the Big 4 and 1 1/4" on the RE. Both bikes have a 3" roundel but 4" might be nice if you have room.

I buy my stencils from https://www.axholmesigns.co.uk/ Ron

DSCF3126

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

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